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Chief Deane: I Answer To No One

By Greg L | 27 March 2008 | Prince William County | 69 Comments

Some members of the Prince William Board of County Supervisors are responding to citizen concerns about Chief Deane’s freelance diplomatic efforts with agents of a foreign government, while others incongruously are trying to defend this outrage. Emails obtained from some of the Supervisors pursuant to a Freedom of Information Request provide a fascinating look at the strange dynamic going on here as Chief Deane scrambles to justify his actions, while some members of the Board are seem more interested in defending whatever Deane has done without fully understanding what that is than trying to figure out what the heck is going on here.

After a barrage of emails from constituents, Chairman Corey Stewart wanted to get some answers. This is what he sent to Chief Deane trying to get them:

Chief Deane;

I found out through the press this morning that you are planning on having a meeting with the Mexican consul concerning the Board’s policy on Illegal Immigration. I have several questions I would like to have answered and provided to the Board before the 7 p.m. meeting tonight.

1. Who initiated the first meeting with the Mexican consul?

2. How many meetings have occurred, when and where have they occurred, what specifically has been discussed at these meetings and were notes taken to be provided to the BOCS?

3. How long has this meeting tonight been planned?

4. Do you have any plans to meet with other Foreign National Government officials?

5. Was the U.S. Department of State contacted to ensure proper diplomatic protocol is being met in
regards to these meetings? If so, who was contacted and when?

6. Did you inform the County Executive of these meetings? If so, who was contacted and when?

7. Did you inform any of the Board of County Supervisors of these meetings? If so, who was contacted and when?

8. Did you contact or seek advice from the County Attorney’s office regarding these meetings to ensure that the County is in full compliance of Federal Law? If so, who was contacted and when?

9. Which Mexican National Government officials have you been meeting with and what is their contact information?

10. Were any members of our Congressional Delegation notified of these meetings? If so, who was contacted and when?

My office is being contacted by many citizens who would like information regarding this meeting.

–Corey

I’d like to know the answers to these questions, myself. I’m sure may readers would as well.

So what was Chief Deane’s response to these questions? He did not answer them. Excuse me? Here’s the Chairman of the Board asking a county employee questions about what he has been doing in his official capacity, and the Chief won’t even answer questions?

I have received your email regarding the community meeting tonight at Hi-Mart in Woodbridge. This is a general informational session with the community that is consistent with meetings that have already been held throughout the County. Informational meetings of this nature have been endorsed by the Board as part of the County’s public education and outreach efforts. That being the case, I am puzzled by the specific questions that are being posed, and would like to further discuss them with you at your earliest convenience. I will be in the office at [redacted] or enroute to the meeting. My cell number is [redacted].

As a side note, the County Attorney indicates providing information that has been given publicly at numerous other meetings does not raise any immediate red flags.

Note here there’s no response to the questions the Chairman asked, but this lame excuse that Chief Deane interprets the actions of the board as an apparent blanket authorization to enter into discussions with the agents of foreign governments without any notice. Deane is “puzzled” that anyone would ask what he’s been doing, and wants to discuss the questions, but not provide written answers to them.  Even if Deane can be encouraged to answer the questions asked of him, the answers aren’t going to show up until well after the joint meeting with the Mexican Consul has happened. Isn’t this the very kind of insubordinate behavior that Deane is legendary for stamping out within his department?

But being insubordinate often won’t carry much in the way of penalties when some members of the board will reflexively defend the actions of the Chief no matter what, and support the Chief’s non-responsiveness to the Chairman’s questions.

Marty Nohe responds with a “that’s good enough for me”, and apparently doesn’t haven any interest in finding out the answers to the Chairman’s questions:

Thank you Chief. For my 1/8th, this answer suffices to address the concerns expressed.

-Marty

Here’s Frank Principi’s response, which takes a somewhat different tack.  He’s outraged that someone dare question what the Chief does, and demands an opportunity to put an end to any questions about what this public official is doing in his official capacity:

Corey…

Your note below is completely inappropriate, undermines the working relationship we have with the Police Department, and challenges the integrity of our Police Chief. As such, I have to object to this staff directive. According to our rules of procedures, I ask that it be converted to a resolution and introduced on the dais for a vote.

Supervisor Frank J. Principi

And John Jenkins weighs in, with the same effort to shield the Chief from any accountability:

Corey:

In accordance with the BOCS rules of procedure I object to this directive and request that it be brought to the BOCS for action by the Board.

JOHN D. JENKINS, Neabsco District Supervisor

And Maureen Caddigan seems to agree with some of her colleagues that it’s unfair that anyone might question what the Chief does:

Corey,

I disagree with your request to the Chief. He works for the County Executive and I feel he has acted appropriately. I do not concur with your demand and I agree with my fellow board members who also share my view.

Maureen

Apparently some Supervisors are just fine with what appears to be insubordination by county employees, and think it’s inappropriate for the Chairman to respond to citizen demands for answers by asking county employees what they’ve been doing. I suppose they’d be equally fine with ignoring citizen concerns about how our taxpayer dollars are spent, and would shield county employees from questions regarding fraud, waste and abuse of our tax dollars. This is utterly ridiculous. Of course the Chairman has the right to ask questions of our public employees.

Supervisor John Stirrup responds with a display of much-needed sanity here, and takes his fellow board members to task for objecting to the Chairman’s attempt to understand what the heck is going on here:

If the Chairman and the Board of County Supervisors, who are ultimately responsible for public policy in the county, are not allowed to ask questions of a County employee, then who’s authority is being undermined?

Public outreach and education are appropriate, but what purpose is served by meeting with representatives of the government of Mexico, a country that advocates and promotes the illegal entry of millions of their citizens into the United States? Does the Mexican Government support the County’s Rule of Law Resolution and its implementation or will they work at cross purposes? Further, the optics of a representative of Prince William County meeting with representatives of the Mexican Government sends a confusing and conflicting message to our citizens who strongly support implementation of the Rule of Law resolution. Our citizens, who elected us, may well question if our authority is being undermined and challenged.

Sincerely,

John Stirrup

At least there are some members of the board who would question why the Chief of Police has taken it upon himself to enter into secret discussions with agents of a foreign government who clearly wish to undermine efforts to enforce the law in Prince William County and might object to a joint meeting with agents of a foreign government. If our elected officials can’t even ask what our public employees are doing in the positions of public trust that they’ve been placed, our government is not run by the people, for the people, but by the bureaucrats for the bureaucracy. It’s outrageous that some elected officials would defend this active subversion of democracy.

I imagine that the next meeting of the Board of County Supervisors is going to be plenty lively.  It should be.



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69 Comments

  1. Parker said on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:35 pm:
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    Check out Geert Widers film “Fitna” on Liveleak.com for the immigration problem the Dutch are facing. Provocative interesting stuff. Thought folks here might would be interested.

  2. Patty said on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:39 pm:
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    The responses from the supervisors really tell all. Amazing!

  3. Loudoun Insider said on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:41 pm:
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    Excellent response from John Stirrup, and kudos to Corey Stewart for asking tough questions in the first place. Those two understand exactly who it is they work for - the citizens of PWC.

  4. Maureen Wood said on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:42 pm:
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    I attended the meeting tonight and I thought Chief Deane did a very good job. When I have some more time I will update. Going to bed.

  5. starryflights said on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:44 pm:
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    Good report Greg. I will be video taping the next BOCS meeting. I can’t wait to see what happens. I am very disappointed in Caddigan, Jenkins, Principi and Nohe.

  6. Parker said on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:48 pm:
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    btw sorry for being off topic. I’m following this Deane story and haven’t decided what to make of it yet. I am irritated at the comments of Jenkins and Principi. I don’t agree with Greg’s previous post hinting about Mexico being at war with us. I don’t see this immigration problem as war.

  7. starryflights said on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:50 pm:
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    “This immigration problem” is an invasion!

  8. Parker said on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:52 pm:
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    @starryflights It’s economic on military though wouldn’t you say?

  9. Lafayette said on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:57 pm:
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    Maureen,
    Thank you for attending. I look forward to YOUR full update.

  10. Anonymous said on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:03 am:
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    Before people start jumping to all sorts of conclusions, keep in mind that we dont have any of Chairman Stuarts answers yet. For all we know Mexicans Without Borders invited both Chief Deane and the Mexican Consular to the same meeting, without any formal arraingements between the Chiefs office and the Mexican Govt.

    I am sure that the Chief will answer every one of the Chairmans questions.

    The Chief attends dozens of community meetings (I know, I have been to many of them) without running it by the Board of Supervisors or the county attorney.

    Remember, he was also more than happy to attend a Help Save Manassas meeting to answer questions there as well.

  11. Jackson Miller said on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:05 am:
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    Anonymous at 12:03am was posted by Jackson Miller. Sorry its late.

  12. Lafayette said on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:11 am:
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    Jackson,
    Thanks for your thoughts. Chief Deane was quite accomodating, and he answered all questions asked of him.
    Maureen said tonight’s meeting was more in depth. I for one am glad he came to talk to HSM. How soon some to forget things.

  13. Lafayette said on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:13 am:
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    I am talking about his visit to HSM in September at Stonewall Middle School.

    Maureen said he answered all questions this honestly and openly.

  14. Dolph said on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:44 am:
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    I am ashamed to admit I live in the Gainesville district. There are more conspiracy theories going around here than in an Oliver Stone movie. What on earth is wrong with finding out facts and then commenting. All this speculation is just disgusting. Totally disgusting and without merit.

    Chief Deane does not have to have his meetings approved by the BOCS. If he does, then we are paying him way too much money and we just need to slap a sheriff’s badge on Corey Stewart or one of his designees and let them do the job. Definitely more bang for our buck.

    Who gets to stay? Who gets to go? So far, I am aware of only 2 sacred cows. The double S boys can stay. The rest of the supervisors, in the eyes of most contributors here, are dog meat. The CXO, the chief of police, and the superintendant are garbage, again in the eyes of bvbl folks.

    Question here: Who do you all like? I am honestly curious. Do you just hate everyone except the double S guys?

  15. Greg L said on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:47 am:
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    Sure Deane is answering questions from the public in a public forum. He’s had plenty of practice, and anyone would be surprised to see him screw up on the 50th iteration of these public meetings. But why the heck is he refusing to answer questions from the Board of Supervisors about his unauthorized contacts with agents of foreign governments and then participating in joint events with them? And why are some Supervisors actively trying to protect the Chief from having to answer why he’s having secret meetings with agents of foreign governments?

    What if this involved agents of the Governments of Iran, Cuba, or Venezuela? Is it OK for Chief Deane to have secret meetings with them, also? Why won’t Deane tell us what was discussed at these meetings, how many times he met with them, or what agreements he made with these foreign officials?

    Deane is under the impression that he’s some sort of diplomat. If he wants to be a diplomat, he can go work for Condaleeza Rice. If he wants to be Police Chief, he’s got to stop this Neville Chamberlain act.

  16. Dolph said on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:51 am:
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    Jackson Miller,

    Thank you for adding a voice of reason to this hysteria. I feel like my entire county has gone off the deep end. You have reassured me that at least one of my representatives is still looking out for the interests of Prince William
    County.

  17. Dolph said on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:15 am:
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    Secret? I saw it on tv. It didn’t look secret to me. It looked like a couple hundred people were in attendance as well as a small group of police officers. From the people I know who attended, it was very much like the rest of the meetings Chief Deane has held and like the talks he has on channel 23. It might even be like the appearance he put in at the HSM meeting in September.

    The consular appeared to be a mid-level Mexican g-man. Lafayette described him best: midgrade pencil pusher. He is here to help and assist Mexican Nationals. I think it is perfectly appropriate for him to ask questions and to create an environment where the people he serves can ask questions.

    I don’t see this evening as adversarial or conspiratorial. Find something else to hang the man with since that is the objective. Might as well just come right out and state it.

  18. Greg L said on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:46 am:
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    Dolph, what I am referring to were the meetings between Deane and the Mexican Consul that preceded this public meeting. There is also a strong possibility that similar meetings between Deane and the representatives of other foreign nations have happened, without notice to anyone, including Gerhart, the BOCS, or the public.

  19. Krutis said on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:30 am:
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    Greg @12:47

    You must be up past your bedtime. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela - NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN ACT!!! What on earth did you put in your hot milk tonight!?!? What makes you think that those foreign countries would be interested in PWC?

    As for “insubordination” by Deane. Was he told by someone in authority NOT to talk to the Mexican consular person? If not, then he was not insubordinate. Seems your ego and dislike of Deane have gotten the best of you tonight. Has any other group in PWC questioned Deane’s meeting last night?

  20. Freedom said on 28 Mar 2008 at 5:06 am:
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    When it comes to a meeting of county officials…even a member of the BOCS…with foreign government representatives, why shouldn’t we want to know what’s going on, why, and if it has been properly coordinated with the state Department?

    While the Police Chief certainly does not coordinate all of his meetings with his supervisor or THAT person’s supervisor, a meeting with foreign governments seems to be a little different…in fact, quite a bit different than a meeting with the American citizens of HSM.

    What I don’t understand is the outrage over the Chief being asked.

  21. junes_reston said on 28 Mar 2008 at 5:31 am:
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    Krutis said on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:30 am:
    Greg @12:47

    You must be up past your bedtime. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela - NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN ACT!!! What on earth did you put in your hot milk tonight!?!? What makes you think that those foreign countries would be interested in PWC? ……………..

    Are you implying the illegal alien population in PWC is primarily Mexican? Or are you implying the Embassy representatives of other illegal aliens’ countries just don’t care?

    If you feel “those other foreign countries” would not be interested in PWC’ “immigrant” population, perhaps you would care to explain why Mexico has such a keen interest when the percentage of Mexico’s illegal aliens in Northern VA is miniscule at best?

    I’m pretty sure if PWC Salvadorans or Hondurans were to contact Mr. Enrique Escorza at the Embassy for assistance, Mr. Escorza would have to turn them away.

    So what WAS Mr. Escorza’s purpose at this meeting (other than stirring the pot)?

  22. Foghorn Leghorn said on 28 Mar 2008 at 6:09 am:
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    Krutis,

    Are you a professional point misser? Nobody could possibly interpret that Greg meant those nations are interested in PWC!!

    The insubordination is in reference to the Chief’s non-reponsive response.
    I can’t tell if this is your attempt at “spin” or if you’re on a Robotussin binge.

    Your eagerness to paint Greg in a negative light has only reflected back at your true color. Is it your ego and dislike of BLA BLA BLA.

    One more thing…while I’m at it.

    The fact that BVBL questions events that others are unwilling to (or too apathetic to) is what makes this blog relevent. Your logic is flawed Krutis. If Greg were to wait for a concensus of other groups before he spoke up, what value could he be to your community? I’ve seen you use this logic before. For example, When Greg covered the destruction of a small business man in Manassas park, you wrote, “Has anyone else taken up this case with the same passion as you?”

    This trait (of being out in front) is the difference between a leader and a flock of chickens.

    So what are you Krutis, extra crispy or original?

  23. Rick Bentley said on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:21 am:
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    After reading the MSM account of Deane’s meeting, I am somewhat placated … he did not asssuage fears about driving without a liscense, and told them that not speaking English might be cause to investigate whether a person is illegal. His main thrust seems to be to let them know that they won’t be reported for reporting crimes committed upon them - fair enough. I think he deserves a smack for legitimizing the Mexican consulate’s attempts to involve themselves here, but at least he had a legitimate agenda.

  24. Pat.Herve said on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:29 am:
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    I think this topic is being blown Totally out of Proportion.

    What was the purpose of the meeting?

    I do not know if the intent of the meeting was. Obviously, it was around Immigrants from Mexico (by the fact that the Mexican Consulate had a representative). These Immigrants may be legal or illegal.

    Anyway, the PWC PD NEEDS to inform the public about its programs - maybe it was to tell the illegals that they will be detained if they are pulled over, maybe it was to tell the legals that they will not be detained if they are pulled over. What paper work should they be carrying at all times, etc.

    I really do not see the big deal of the PWC PD holding a public forum to dispense information to the public - and he had the Mexican Consulate there, to give credibility to the meeting.

    Now, does anyone have any information that the meeting was any more than that? The Chief did offer to discuss the meeting on the phone with Stewart - did Stewart contact the Chief before the meeting (other than the email?). I noticed that Stewart did not ask what the purpose of the meeting was - that is what I would like to know. Sometimes, it is better to have a frank discussion about a topic instead of pinging back and forth with emails.

  25. park'd said on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:42 am:
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    I don’t care what Dolph, Jackson Miller, Krutis or anyone else says about Deane and what has been going on. The only thing that matters is that Deane is collaborating with a group of foreign nationals that 1) are trying to usurp American authority to dictate its own immigration policy 2) should be ashamed for letting their own country turn into a steaming pile of dung heap where 90% of their citizens are stealing across the border to America looking for a better life and 3) Doing all of this behind closed doors for all intents and purposes. Mr. Deane needs to be more mindful of what the citizens demand and less of what the Mexican government demands. He is not a politician and is answerable to we the citizens and the BOCS. PERIOD. Why are we even discussing this? I throw my hands into the air that Jackson Miller could even have said what I read above. What’s going on here is tantamount to open treason unless it was arranged by the US State Department. Was it? I certainly hope that the BOCS gets its fair share of calls today about this, specifically Jenkins and Caddigan. Sometimes I swear I’m living in the twilight zone when I see people condone this type of behavior.

  26. Saveamerica said on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:47 am:
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    Come on Greg, what proof do you have that there is a “….”There is also a strong possibility that similar meetings between Deane and the representatives of other foreign nations have happened, without notice to anyone, including Gerhart, the BOCS, or the public.”

    Show me the proof to back up this statement. This is conjecture at the worst. Now you’re getting like others on here with baseless rantings. If you want the Chief out, then find a legitimate reason rather than empty thoughts.

  27. Rick Bentley said on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:55 am:
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    Okay, Deane confirms that if illegals drive without a license in PWC, they’ll probably be deported. All we need now is to set up a few drunk driving roadblocks and we can grab them up hundreds at a time. Remember drunk driving checks? Something we used to do in the naive days when Americans worked together to make the country a better a safer place, before cheap labor became a higher priority.

  28. Lafayette said on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:04 am:
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    Rick B,
    I’ve been through a “drunk driving road block” in the past year on Lomond Dr at Stonewall Middle School. All traffic is directed to the parking lot where the police look at each car and ask for ID, registration, have you been drinking and observe you very closely. This seems to happen about twice a year.

  29. anon said on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:15 am:
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    Keep in mind that Jackson Miller knows that Deane reads this blog and he works for Deane as a patrol cop. He changes his entry above from Anonymous 12:03 to his full name at 12:05 so everyone knows it is him.

  30. Anonymous said on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:25 am:
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    Let’s be honest here. Corey is going after Deane because our police unions do not support Corey. Also Corey needs to create another issue to cover up the tax increase that is coming because of the situation he helped cause in our county. With his political future now limited to PWC and not statewide he needs to find somewhere to keep his name in the media in order to fulfill his ego.

  31. CitizenofManassas said on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:31 am:
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    Dolph,

    Are you crazy? I bet if the County school board would have met with foreign political leaders to continue NCLB you would have a cow.

    You claim you are against illegal immigrating, yet defend this action that was done to undermine attempts to control illegal immigration.

    The simply fact is it is very unusual for foreign political leaders to met with local unelected officials regarding laws and enforcement of said locality. Mexico does it because they see people like Deane as just spineless wimps who jump when the Mexicans say to. Because of people like Deane, Mexico has grown to believe, they should have an active say in our immigration policy. Do you really think Stewart wanted to go to Mexico and meddle in their affairs, they would be so accommodating?

    Of course Deane should met with HMS, the majority of members are United States Citizens who live in the County. Deane has an obligation to met with people he is charged with protecting.

  32. Red, White and Blue said on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:43 am:
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    Wheh!, a lot of information, presentation and assumption to assimilate.

    Jackson is right, Greg is right, Corey is right. First, the Chief does have other public venues as addressed by Jackson. These are necessary to ensure clarity as well as informational meetings such as the Chief meeting with HSM.
    Being “hardcore” but reasonable, did the Chief have to get permission from the BoS to meet with us (HSM)?

    Greg is right, this meeting is out of context from normal meeting protocol. This is not a local entity but a government. This changes things dramatically. In my opinion, the BoS and/or the county attorney should have been approached to preclude exactly what is happening right now. Clearly, the Mexican government has a different point of view and we merely want it expressed in an open forum with our elected representative officials.

    Coreyis right, he feels that the Chief should have been more forthright with a meeting with a foreign government prior to its inception. Please note that Cheif Deane carries a lot of responsibility but he still an employee of the county and us and he should be held accountable for his actions. He is not a policy maker but must follow the policy and law as enacted.

    This issue, the illegals, the subquent “signage” in the Manassas downtown area, criminal activity and Mexicans Without Borders outrageous claims and demands (and backround), only fuel the issue and Chief Deane should have been keenly aware of this. He, as well as Chief Skinner were not proponents of the 287g program and this further fuels suspicion.

    Now to be fair, I believe that the Chief (and apparently he has) should answer the questions posed and should not, as a matter of meeting policy, meet with a foreign government without qualification again.

    Additionally, we have seen and as Corey Stewart brought out, that the area police forces have properly and correctly been applying the 287g program amidst the objections and inuendoes of MWBs and others (like the racist hate sign in Manassas).

    Let all the parties (excluding the Mexican government) prevail before we get the axe out. We are winning this battle, legally and correctly and I thank, again, the City of Manassas, Prince William County and the Manassas Park police for stepping up and joining together on the 287g program, enforcing it, applying it and making it work.

  33. 999 said on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:47 am:
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    Krutis said on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:30 am:
    Was he told by someone in authority NOT to talk to the Mexican consular person?

    That is one of the questions that needs to be answered. ACCOUNTABILITY!

  34. CitizenofManassas said on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:50 am:
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    Red,

    I think people are pissed because they see this as an attempt to undermine the rule of law, and we are sick and tired of having people defend illegals. They do not belong here end of story, and we see any attempts like this to just continue to defend illegals.

    Remember, Deane was against this policy from the start and used the same language to smear the community as the illegal supporters do. So, of course when Deane meets with those that are obviously pro illegal, it does raise questions.

  35. legal2 said on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:57 am:
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    I still think that the Chairman’s questions are reasonable, under the circumstances. And Deane should cease and desist if there is any appearance of impropriety. His evading answers is a little suspect.

  36. Vigilant1 said on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:01 am:
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    Lafayette said on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:04 am:
    Rick B,
    I’ve been through a “drunk driving road block” in the past year on Lomond Dr at Stonewall Middle School. All traffic is directed to the parking lot where the police look at each car and ask for ID, registration, have you been drinking and observe you very closely. This seems to happen about twice a year.

    It needs to happen a lot more than just twice a year. The police used to set up check-points two weeks after the date new county stickers went into effect. I haven’t seen this being done in years and you still see cars on the roads with invalid county stickers.

  37. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:02 am:
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    Fact 1: illegal aliens are criminals (steal identities, perform work without authorization, steal benefits, steal social security numbers, forge documents, etc.). Legal law abiding residents would go to jail if they did any of these things!
    Fact 2: legal residents who “aid and abet” are FELONS.
    Fact 3: We need to crack down on the perps mentioned in Fact 1 and Fact 2 above.
    THERE IS NOTHING FURTHER TO DISCUSS! NO OUTREACH IS NEEDED! ALL SIDES KNOW THESE FACTS! When people say “outreach” what they really mean is….trying to find a way to compromise and circumvent the law.

  38. Dolph said on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:12 am:
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    COM,

    I would have a fit over anything to do with NCLB other than completely doing away with it. I hate NCLB. I have made no bones about it.

    I have no indication that Chief Deane was meeting for any reason other than to diseminate information. If it was at the request of the Mexican Consul, so what. Everyone needs to be on the same sheet of music, so to speak.

    Either you want groups like MWB spreading the news or you want a county official, like Chief Deane spreadiing the news. You cannot have it both ways. I vote for Chief Deane.

  39. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:23 am:
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    Dolph….the supporters of illegal immigration already KNOW the information! There is nothing to discuss!

  40. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:25 am:
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    What next dolph? A meeting to quell the “fears” of potential bank robbers? Get real! People KNOW the law! No outreach is needed! If you are an illegal alien you will get deported…Period! If you are a legal resident who “aids and abets” you are a FELON….Period!

  41. Patty said on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:26 am:
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    Absolutey does a County employee need to answer to the Board. Do you all remember the Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose? He was told not to write anything on the sniper case. He did and he lost his job.

    I agree with Red, White and Blue. Meeting with foreign governments is outside of the scope of COMMUNITY EDUCATION. I have a problem with any County employee who doesn’t answer to our elected officials. There needs to be accountability. From some of the posts I’ve seen it seems to me that some have trouble remembering what they learned in government class. The primary principle of our government is accountability, a system of checks and balances so that no one has absolute power.

  42. Dolph said on 28 Mar 2008 at 10:06 am:
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    Interesting that you got an immediate response from Mr. Stewart on a FOIA. Did it come through the County Attorney’s Office that fast? Or doesn’t he have to work through them as he is the Chair.

    Verrrrryyy interesting.

  43. starryflights said on 28 Mar 2008 at 10:19 am:
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    I have to wonder if Caddigan, Nohe, Jenkins and Principi got together to discuss their response to Stewart’s correspondence to Deane before responding. Caddigan said above: “I do not concur with your demand and I agree with my fellow board members who also share my view.”

  44. Advocator said on 28 Mar 2008 at 10:20 am:
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    Speaking of meetings, the closest Guvnor Goober is coming to PWC is Ashburn on Monday, for a town hall meeting from 6:30 to 8 p.m. at Farmwell Station Middle School, 44281 Gloucester Pkwy.

  45. CitizenofManassas said on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:42 am:
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    Dolph,

    Recall Deane was against the policy from the start, and it was only because the BOS passed it that he went(has to) along with it. The Mexicans know he is a sympathizer for the illegals, and want to get good PR by meeting with such a sympathizer. It also further complicates the issue and brings into doubt the authority of the policy.

    We all know what the policy is, and unless the MJM is printing up another story in their foreign language papers, everyone should know the policy. Come on do some critical thinking.

  46. starryflights said on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:59 am:
    Flag comment

    Deane’s possible secret meetings with foreign government officials from several countries may not only be against the law, but also undermines the confidence that PWC citizens have in our police force to follow the will of the people in cracking down on illegal immigration. I have lost confidence in Deane’s ability to follow directives from the PWC citizens and the BOCS.

  47. G Man said on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    Have you forgotten only two weeks ago the MJM was having a fit because the PWC BOCS was going to meet in closed session to discuss with the county attorney the legal impact of the just-ruled unconstitional Regional Transportation Authority? They made an appeal at the BOCS meeting, wrote an opinion piece about the need for Open Government, had a week of stuff on Sunshine Week, a national initiative designed to enlighten people and encourage them to play an active role in their government at all levels by knowing their right to the information that lets them know what their governments are doing and why.

    So relatively speaking the closed door discussion with the attorney was nothing compared to Deane’s actions. The BOCS Chairman, and every citizen in this county has every right to demand information concerning Deane’s meetings with foreign governments.

  48. Advocator said on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:56 pm:
    Flag comment

    starryflights said on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:59 am: “Deane’s possible secret meetings with foreign government officials from several countries may not only be against the law …”

    What possible secret meetings? What foreign government officials? When? Where’s the beef to this sandwich?

  49. CitizenofManassas said on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:09 pm:
    Flag comment

    Gman,

    The MJM does not have a problem with the Deane meetings because they support the illegals.

  50. Saveamerica said on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:33 pm:
    Flag comment

    Come on Starryflights, I’m with Advocater and I asked the same question of Greg in an earlier post…where is the proof of these “possible meetings with other foreign government officials”???? You have no proof, no nothing. You’re just speaking of conjecture and rumor. Get better facts, then talk all you want.

  51. Advocator said on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:53 pm:
    Flag comment

    Sounds like G-man has some answers. What “foreign governments,” G-man? What meetings? When? Where? With whom? C’mon, G-man, give it up! We’re all waiting.

  52. Anonymous said on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:36 pm:
    Flag comment

    Advocator said on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:56 pm:
    What possible secret meetings? What foreign government officials? When? Where’s the beef to this sandwich?

    It’s a secret!

  53. Saveamerica said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:37 pm:
    Flag comment

    G-man’s and Starryflight’s silence is deafening….no answers….

  54. Benny said on 28 Mar 2008 at 4:39 pm:
    Flag comment

    Reality Check
    Debunking Myths About Immigration that Misinform Americans

    June 12, 2007

    The current debate regarding the comprehensive immigration reform bill is complex and hotly contested, yet the fundamental legislative framework is clearly within reach despite the Senate’s recent failure to move forward with bipartisan legislation supported by President Bush. This is why the president’s trip to Capitol Hill today to meet with fellow Republicans is so important to the political, social, and economic future of the nation.
    With so much at stake, it’s important to have the correct information about the state of immigrants in the United States today and a clear understanding of the importance of comprehensive immigration reform. The following are a series of reality checks on commonly held myths about immigration and immigrants, based on several reports released by policy experts of the Center for American Progress.

    Reality Check: Immigrants in the U.S. Health Care System

    Myth: U.S. public health insurance programs are overburdened with documented and undocumented immigrants.

    Reality: Twenty-one percent of total medical costs were paid through public sources for native-born citizens, compared to 16 percent for documented and undocumented immigrants. In terms of taxes paid per household, this equates to $56 for health care for documented immigrants and $11 for health care (emergency Medicaid services) for the undocumented.

    Myth: Immigrants come to the United States to gain access to health services.

    Reality: Immigrants are most likely to be employed in indus­tries that do not offer health insurance coverage, such as agriculture, construction, food processing, restau­rants, and hotel services. Uninsured rates in these industries are more than 30 percent for all workers compared to 19 percent for workers across all industries.

    Myth: Undocumented immigrants are “free-riders” in the U.S. health care system.

    Reality: The National Research Council concluded that immigrants will pay on average $80,000 per capita more in taxes than they will use in government services during their lifetimes. The Social Security Admin­istration, for example, estimates that workers without valid social secu­rity numbers contribute $7 billion in Social Security tax revenues and roughly $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes annually, yet elderly immigrants rarely qualify for Medicare or long-term care services provided through Medicaid.

    Reality Check: Immigrants and the U.S. Work Force

    Myth: Out-of-work natives could replace undocumented immigrants in our workforce.

    Reality: Removing all undocumented immigrants from the U.S. workforce would leave 2.5 million low-skill jobs unfilled. In a paper commissioned by the Center for American Progress, William & Mary economist David A. Jaeger found a telling disparity between myth and reality in the effects of immigration on the workforce: out-of-work natives could not effectively replace undocumented natives. The jobs that undocumented immigrants currently hold require a substantially lower skill set than most jobless natives possess. As a result of the skills gap, only 105,000 natives could appropriately replace the 2.5 million immigrants in very low-skill jobs, leaving 2.4 million positions unfilled. Such a loss would put states with large immigrant populations, such as Arizona and California, in dire straits.

    Myth: Undocumented immigrants are a drain on the U.S. economy.

    Reality: Even conservative estimates show that undocumented immigrants play a substantial role in supporting the U.S. economy and boosting its potential. In Arizona, they earn 2.9 percent of total wages; that is 2.5 times more than physicians and 3.1 times more than lawyers and police officers or firefighters. Immigrants’ presence in the labor force not only buttresses that force’s lower tiers, it also fosters overall economic growth.

    A 2006 study found that state revenues collected from undocumented immigrants in Texas exceeded by $424.7 million what the state spent on these immigrants in public services such as education and health care in 2005.

    Reality Check: The Feasibility of a Mass Deportation Policy

    Myth: Deportation is a realistic and economically feasible way of taking care of the backlog of undocumented workers currently in the United States.

    Reality: Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) has stated “[T]he dirty secret is that we couldn’t deport 10 million illegal immigrants if we wanted to.” Deporting 10 million undocumented immigrants would cost $41 billion annually over five years, or $206 billion total, using conservative estimates of key variables. Compared to other current budget figures, the cost of a mass deportation policy would:

    Exceed the entire budget of the Department of Homeland Security for the 2006 fiscal year ending in October 2007 ($34.2 billion)
    Approach the total amount of money requested by the 33 federal agencies responsible for homeland security activities for FY 2006 ($49.9 billion)
    More than double annual spending on border and transportation security ($19.3 billion)
    Comprise half the annual cost of the Iraq war ($74 billion)
    More than double the annual cost of military operations in Afghanistan ($16.8 billion)

    Reality Check: The Majority of the Public Supports Comprehensive Immigration Reform

    Myth: There is weak support among the public for immigration reform.

    Reality: Voters consistently express support for comprehensive immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship. Data from a recent CNN poll, for example, show that 80 percent of the public favors a program that would allow illegal immigrants who have been living in the United States for several years, have jobs, and are willing to pay back taxes, to apply for citizenship. A Quinnipiac University poll from last November similarly showed that a very strong 69 percent-to-27 percent majority of registered voters favor a similar program.

    Perpetuation of Myths is Not in the Nation’s Best Interests

    The majority of the U.S. public understands that these myths misinform the immigration debate, which is why we as a country overwhelmingly support a tough but not punitive approach to immigration reform. President Bush has an opportunity and an obligation today and in the coming weeks to persuade restrictionists not to perpetuate myths that skew the debate. Misinformation about the important policies under discussion is not in our nation’s best interests.

    To read more about CAP’s reports on immigration, please see:

    Immigrants in the U.S. Health Care System
    Replacing the Undocumented Work Force
    Deporting the Undocumented: A Cost Assessment
    Legal Immigrants Strongly Oppose Congressional Immigration Proposals
    What the Public Really Wants…On Immigration Reform

    To speak with our experts on this topic, please contact:

    For print, John Neurohr, Press Assistant
    202.481.8182 or jneurohr@americanprogress.org
    For radio, Andrea Purse, Deputy Director of Media Strategy
    202.446.8429 or apurse@americanprogress.org
    For TV, Sean Gibbons, Director of Media Strategy
    202.682.1611 or sgibbons@americanprogress.org
    For web, Erin Lindsay, Online Marketing Manager
    202.741.6397 or elindsay@americanprogress.org
    © Center for American Progress | Privacy Policy | Reuse Policy

  55. working said on 28 Mar 2008 at 5:35 pm:
    Flag comment

    Benny,
    Put a cork in it. Talk about biased sources. Geez. The truth in Prince William County is a vast majority of citizens want those that are here without legal status, to leave. If they want to become citizens, do it the legal way. There is very little support for the famous “amnesty” bill in this Country and certainly in this County, that rightly died a quick death.

  56. CitizenofManassas said on 28 Mar 2008 at 6:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    Benny,

    What a load of crap. How many ERs which were located along the border have closed in the last few years? What was the reason, too many illegals coming in for service. Who pays for illegals? You and me.

    If Americans wanted citizenship for illegals, the Senate Bill would have passed. It did not, why? Because Americans do not want Citizenship for illegals.

    How do illegals who get paid in cash, pay taxes on that money? ‘nough said about how illegals somehow pay more in taxes then they use.

    It costs roughly 50% more to educate an ESL student, who most likely is an illegal, then it does to educate a non ESL student. Do illegals pay 50% more in taxes to cover the costs of ESL education? No, they do not.

    How is a house that has more than one illegal family living in it with children attending public schools, paying their fair share of real estate taxes?

    Illegals make up less than 5% of the total work force in this Country. How is it this Country would not make it without them?

    We do not need to have mass deportation, just start to enforce the laws we have now, and as we have seen here in PW County, the illegals will move on.

    The Texas study is wrong, what about the localities in Texas? They spent more on illegals.

    So, take you pro criminal BS and go hang out with the child rapists. You and anyone else who makes excuses for illegals should be more then willing to have such rapists baby sit your children, or other family members.

  57. Bruno said on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:06 pm:
    Flag comment

    The County BOCS were told several months ago that this Illegal Immigration Policy was not needed, the recent start up of the jails 287g trained officers, along with what the police were already doing was sufficient. Corey Stewart needed a platform to run for Chairman and then along with his cutting taxes he figured that would be enough of a boost to get him to Richmond. Corey Stewart’s dreams of Richmond seem to be going up in smoke, so now he turns on the Chief of Police. What’s the matter Stewart, feel threatened now that your losing your grip on the other Board members and this Illegal Immigration Policy you now feel compelled to go after the Chief….but get your ducks in a row…you may have bitten off more than you can chew with this illegal immigration policy and going after the Chief of Police and underestimating the other Board Members…I don’t think they should stand for your antics….let’s recall the night of the Public Hearing last year, when you sent notices to all those citizens to attend and then you leave your seat to go out in the hallway to have a interview with reporters….wow you got some big ones. Mr. Stewart wants to keep taxes low and fund his Immigration Policy but wants to cut Police staffing, Fire staffing, MERITS (pay increases) for ALL county employees…how can you cut all of these items to fund new programs. As a citizen of Prince William County for 42 years I am embarrased and frustrated with the current Chairman…what to do?

  58. Greg L said on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    Yeah, I seem to remember that hundreds of citizens contacted their Supervisors for months in order to express their concerns about illegal immigration in the county, but I seem to have a different recollection about what they were saying — not that this wasn’t needed, but that it absolutely was.

  59. jfk said on 29 Mar 2008 at 7:46 am:
    Flag comment

    Bruno, you should leave. And take Dolph with you. She should get the hell out, if she is so ashamed of her government. You both can vote with your feet.

  60. FHL said on 29 Mar 2008 at 9:38 am:
    Flag comment

    Benny- Thank you for reporting facts. I for one am sick to death of all the misinformation that is posted on this blog. You would think immigrants to the country both documented and undocumented are devils. I appreciate you reporting factual information. Everyone needs to know the truth.

    Bruno-You hit the nail on the head. Corey Stewart does not really care about anything but his own personal gain. Illegal immigration was what he used to further his own career. His antics will cost the taxpayers of PW Co millions of dollars and higher taxes, not just this year but in years to come.

    As for the meeting at the Hi Mart. I was there. Chief Deane did a great job. I had many questions regarding the rule of law as well as the Latino/Hispanic population. He patiently answered all the questions. This meeting, even though some of you may not like it, was just one of many meetings that have been held as a community education program. As for the Mexican Consulate, his presence there helped to affirm what Chief Deane was saying and to relay information to the Community about the round up of the 34 concrete workers.

    All in all it was a good and informative meeting. I wish the HSM types that were not there would not put a spin on what happened and the intent of the meeting. There were no hidden agendas. It was purely informational with a further explanation of the “Rule of Law”.

  61. starryflights said on 29 Mar 2008 at 11:05 am:
    Flag comment

    We should never need foreign government agents to affirm what our local officials are saying to local residents.

  62. Patty said on 29 Mar 2008 at 11:37 am:
    Flag comment

    Well looks like the Sharon Pandak crowd is making the rounds, FHL, Bruno.

    Tell me how can Sharon Pandak who lost twice in the race for chairman manage to get on the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority? That certainly doesn’t seem right to me. Somebody should investigate that situation.

  63. citizenofManassas said on 29 Mar 2008 at 12:39 pm:
    Flag comment

    FHL,

    The meeting with the community was fine, but Representatives of a Foreign Government should not have been there, plain and simple. You liberal types get all pissy when America butts in the business of Foreign Governments and Nations, what do y’all call it? American imperialism. But, you sure do not mind when the shoe is on the other foot.

  64. Lafayette said on 29 Mar 2008 at 4:38 pm:
    Flag comment

    Lafayette said on 27 Mar 2008 at 11:57 pm:
    Maureen,
    Thank you for attending. I look forward to YOUR full update.

    Maureen,
    Where is your update posted? I’ve checked out every thread.
    I’ve spoken to a few that were looking forward to YOUR thoughts on the evening’s events. I know you always do what you say. So I’m a little curious where it is.
    *I hope you know I’m not trying to give you crap here.*

  65. Maureen Wood said on 29 Mar 2008 at 7:50 pm:
    Flag comment

    Lafayette- thought I already posted this, I must be getting old.

    I attended the meeting last night. I have some concerns about the Chief having a meeting with the Mexican Consul, but Chief Deane was impressive and above board last night. He did not placate the crowd there. He was honest and told them like it was.
    The question of the drunken driving road block came up and Deane told the crowd that if they are pulled over in this, and they don’t have a license, don’t speak English or they have questionable documents they WILL be asked their legal status.
    The crowd tried many times to corner Chief Deane into promising them something and he wouldn’t have any of it. He told them that there might even be certain circumstances that the police would question their legal status even when they are witnesses to a crime. That went over well with the crowd. (sarcasm)
    The Mexican Consul started the meeting off in Spanish when there were clearly many non-Hispanic’s in the group. The thing that disturbed me about this was, it was NEVER translated into English, so I have to wonder what he said to the crowd. This happened several times during the meeting.
    As for Chief Deane being against the resolutions implementation, he has NO option but to enforce it. He might not be happy about it but after hearing him speak last night, I do believe he WILL and that he will honestly put forth a concerted effort to enforce the “Rule of Law” resolution.
    I too have questions about Chief Deane’s dealings with the Mexican government but I am willing to reserve judgment until we get those answers.

  66. Dolph said on 29 Mar 2008 at 8:45 pm:
    Flag comment

    Maureen,

    Thank you for your report. It is good to hear an unbiased opinion from someone who was really there. There has just been enough speculation.

    Again, thank you for taking your time to go across county and to report back.

  67. Lafayette said on 29 Mar 2008 at 9:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    Maureen,
    Thank you very much.
    Old? NEVER!!!!!!!
    Chris

  68. Loudoun said on 30 Mar 2008 at 11:20 am:
    Flag comment

    Thanks Maureen!

  69. jfk said on 31 Mar 2008 at 9:56 am:
    Flag comment

    Greg, if you are going to take down posts then Dolph’s crude comments @ 8:44 should have been stricken as well. What she said is disgusting and offensive. Let’s play fair here.

    [Ed note: I agree.]

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