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Did “Diplomat Deane” Violate The Logan Act?

By Greg L | 28 March 2008 | Crime, Prince William County | 47 Comments

I wonder when Chief Deane was conducting his discussions with a number of foreign governments in regards to the Rule of Law Resolution, whether he was aware of the following:

18 U.S.C. § 953 (2004)
Private correspondence with foreign governments.
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply himself, or his agent, to any foreign government, or the agents thereof, for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

Because Chief Deane has refused to disclose what he was doing with these foreign agents, we don’t know whether he is in violation of this federal law, known as the Logan Act.  The Government of Mexico clearly wishes to undermine federal immigration laws, and has expressed on numerous occasions their interest in the defeat of the Rule of Law Resolution in Prince William County.  Any discussions with agents of the Government of Mexico or any other foreign nation about defeating the Rule of Law Resolution or the efforts to implement it would appear to constitute an attempt to “defeat the measures of the United States”.

So what is Chief Deane hiding in his refusal to answer questions about his activities with agents of foreign governments?  Can we reasonably interpret his refusal to answer questions posed by his superiors as an attempt to ensure that a federal prosecution under 18 U.S.C. § 953 cannot be effectively undertaken?

If Deane is interested in keeping his job, he’s going to have to start answering these questions pretty quickly.  It is beyond unseemly that the Chief law enforcement officer of Prince William County has been engaging in activity that has the appearance of a violation of federal law.  His role as the Chief of Police for Prince William County involves the fair and effective enforcement of our laws, and does not include diplomatic responsibilities with a host of foreign nations of which we are deliberately kept in the dark.  The more Deane hides what he has been up to, the more it appears that what was done was improper and may have been unlawful.

What is it going to take to have Chief Deane tell us what governments he has been having secret meetings with, what the nature of those discussions were, and what happened as a result of those meetings?  Let’s hope it doesn’t require an indictment.



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47 Comments

  1. 999 said on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:33 pm:
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    This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply himself, or his agent, to any foreign government, or the agents thereof, for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

    EXCEPT for the rights of the IRAN HOSTAGES.

  2. Advocator said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:05 pm:
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    What secret meetings? What governments? When? With whom? How do you have knowledge of them? Do they concern incarcerated foreign nationals in the Chief’s jurisdiction? This is a serious allegation, and a call to blog readers and HSM members to act upon the allegation requires a bit more substance.

  3. Old Soldier said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:16 pm:
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    The Logan act addresses negotiations with Foreign Governments. No one has ever been prosecuted under this act. Private Citizens, Local, State, and Federal representatives are free to meet with representatives of Foreign Governments to discuss a wide range of issues as long as they do not represent themselves as negotiating for the United States of America. Sitting on the same stage discussing issues, answering questions, and disseminating information really doesn’t count.

    A lot of legal residents and naturalized U.S. Citizens are receiving (as you have stated many times) misinformation about the Illegal Immigrant Resolution. He is meeting with these people to dispel rumors and disseminate correct information. If illegal immigrants attend, I am sure they will realize it’s time to leave PWC thus advancing the goal of the resolution.

    I would expect no less of any Chief of Police.

  4. Dolph said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:20 pm:
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    Apparently Alexander Pope was correct. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

  5. Advocator said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:22 pm:
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    This issue’s a dead horse. Time to give it up. Any effort to unseat Deane is going to have to rest on a house made of heavier cards than this one.

  6. Greg L said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:26 pm:
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    Contacts regarding incarcerated foreign nationals is governed under the provisions of the Vienna Convention, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with such contacts. These meetings had nothing to do with activities authorized under that international treaty.

    The details of what foreign agents Deane met with and when these meetings occurred, and why they occurred is on the way when the county finally responds to a FOIA request asking for those specifics. That information will confirm the details of credible confidential information I’ve received. If you want to wait and see, that’s fine.

    Deane doesn’t need to, nor would it be appropriate for him to involve the agents of foreign governments in an outreach campaign towards legal residents and citizens of this country. The county is fully capable of conducting these efforts without including agents of foreign governments that are clearly hostile to the laws and policies that have been adopted by the county and the United States. When we’re trying to educate the public about corporate espionage, we don’t invite the Chinese government in to help them spread the word among their nationals that it’s wrong to spy on the United States. When we’re trying to combat counterfeiting we don’t invite the North Korean Government into public information efforts.

    The actions of the Government of Mexico is a big reason we have an illegal alien problem in the first place. Why would we be having discussions between our local law enforcement agencies and the Mexican Government at any level in regards to enforcing federal immigration laws?

  7. Pat.Herve said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:27 pm:
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    I guess you are on to something.

    When did this secret meeting take place? Where?
    Do you have any information on what was discussed?

  8. Advocator said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:31 pm:
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    I’ll wait for the beef in this sandwich. Until then, I’m with Medic. I’m not knotting up my underwear yet.

    Remember Barbero? He jumped the gun, then broke his leg, then they had to put him down. There’s a lesson there.

  9. Luckduck said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:52 pm:
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    Thank you Advocator for that comparision! You’re right, we’ve asked and asked for the “beef” and get a statement that it coming.

    Well, I guess we’ll have to wait for the FOIA from Greg, although how did he get his OTHER FIOA regarding the meeting last night so quickly and he can’t get this as fast??

    I’m thinking of FOIAing to find out if there was a FOIA request yesterday or just an e-mail sent to HSM.

  10. Lafayette said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:52 pm:
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    Advocator,
    I’ll tell you same thing I told M64 yesterday. Cool, calm and collected here. We must get the facts first. I will reserve my judgment until the facts are prestented to us.

    BTW-Dolph said your last comment was spoken like a true “Secretariat”

  11. Advocator said on 28 Mar 2008 at 4:04 pm:
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    Lafayette: It’s Friday PM, and here’s how I feel:

    http://www.centaurfarms.com/reproductiveservices.html

  12. Lafayette said on 28 Mar 2008 at 4:11 pm:
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    Advocator,
    Thanks! I need a good laugh.

  13. Dolph said on 28 Mar 2008 at 4:21 pm:
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    I have to ask..and it is no more absurd than some other stuff I have read on this thread….what exactly is phantom mounting? Should I FoIA someone and ask?

    Methinks the Advocator should try real fillies instead of those fake ones. smack smack! Bad Dolph.

  14. Chris Royse said on 28 Mar 2008 at 4:24 pm:
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    If an investigation actually occurred into Chief Deane violating the Logan Act, he’d plead the Nuremberg Defense, i.e. “just following orders” as Supervisors Principi and Nohe have noted the Board instructed him to conduct the information meetings with what appears to be little if any guidance. At least Stewart and Stirrup have offered some redress with their messages, which is not unusual as it is becoming more apparent this was a surprise to them; others appear to remain complacent with the Chief’s undisclosed activities with foreign officials. This is unfortunate that they lack an understanding of how the world has changed.

    We live in a global society and our elected officials, at every level of government, need to better understand that the questions Stewart sent to the Chief should have been directives (“if meeting with foreign governments brief us, check with the Attorney, check with State, etc. etc.”) from the start.

    As I said yesterday, watch the money, government employees meeting in secret or at all with government officials from countries that are known to carry-out corrupt practices with no guidance (yes I know our military, intell, Dips, etc. meet with corrupt people everyday—right in Washington with people from this country!—but their conduct is regulated and if they violate the law, rules etc. they are punished) and complacent elected officials makes those of us watching this and knowing a little about how the world works now not only begin to wonder how much corruption is occurring but how deep it actually goes into our County government?

    My counsel to anyone involved with this as a government employee or elected official is to not be complacent, not allow it, distance yourself from it, regroup and re-direct how we do business. I would like to see us conduct business in a manner where we don’t kowtow to officials from foreign governments, especially those from the developing world. Homeland Security Begins in the Hometown.

  15. Patty said on 28 Mar 2008 at 6:38 pm:
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    Advocator,

    They tried to save Barbaro. They did not immediately put him down. They did some state of art surgical techniques to save him. Please, let’s keep the facts straight.

    Lafayette,

    I hope you read the post from Chris Royse. We should all pay attention to what our government officials do. Even if we are not sure, we should question. It never hurts to ask questions. Those who bury their head in the sand will die from the disease of apathy.

    Thank you Chris Royse.

  16. Anonymous said on 28 Mar 2008 at 6:42 pm:
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    Well said, Chris Royce.

    I think its time the State Department got involved as well. I really don’t think our diplomats want a U.S. county police chief meeting with random Mexican officials. Kudos to Corey Stewart for once against coming through for the average citizen.

  17. Patty said on 28 Mar 2008 at 6:51 pm:
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    Dolph said on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:20 pm:
    Apparently Alexander Pope was correct. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

    In response:

    Wisdom shouts in the street, she lifts her voice in the square; at the head of the noisy streets she cries out; at the entrance of the gates in the city she utters her sayings: “How long, O naive ones, will you love being simple minded? And scoffers delight themselves in scoffing and fools hate knowledge. Turn to my reproof, behold, I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you…” Proverbs 1:20-23

  18. Dolph said on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:06 pm:
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    Patty,

    I really think it all boils down to who you trust and believe.

  19. starryflights said on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:17 pm:
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    Any news from the BOCS today? I have had total silence. No email replies. Not a one.

  20. Lafayette said on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:22 pm:
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    Patty,
    I NEVER said it was not ok to question him by any means. I have read the other Chris wrote. I will repeat again, just in case you didn’t see with your own two eyes. I am reserving judment until the FACTS are presented. I really hope you on presuming I have MY head in the sand. I hope you have read what I wrote. I am just not jumping on any ole bandwagon that rolls on BVBL.
    I hope you read what Dolph wrote. Think about that one for a minute.

    My, my aren’t we fiesty this Friday evening. I read your choice comments to Mr. Advocator. Geesh, take a chill pill or go fight with the real enemy. I mean honestly, Patty.

  21. Lafayette said on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:25 pm:
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    corr: I really hope you ARE NOT presuming I have MY head in the sand.

  22. Benton said on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:38 pm:
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    Benton

    Just an update to Popes’ famous quote. Think it applies here perfectly.

    “If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, then extensive-but-incomplete knowledge is a constant torment”.

  23. Benton said on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:57 pm:
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    GL said:

    “The details of what foreign agents Deane met with and when these meetings occurred, and why they occurred is on the way when the county finally responds to a FOIA request asking for those specifics. That information will confirm the details of credible confidential information I’ve received. If you want to wait and see, that’s fine.”

    When and to whom did you submitted this request?

  24. Patty said on 28 Mar 2008 at 10:15 pm:
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    Lafayette,

    No, I did not direct that to you.

    I still think that a foreign government official has no business interfering in our County. I read the article from The Examiner. Based on the article it looks like the Mexican Consulate and Chief Deane orchestrated this whole event. In fact Channel 9 news said this meeting was sponsored by the Mexican Consulate. Since when do we have to answer to a foreign government about our laws? Even if the Chief wasn’t aware of the Consulate’s activity although it was printed in the newspaper ahead of time, he should know better than to cater to a foreign government official.

    What shall we do? Shall we raise the Mexican flag over the McCoart building? Why do we have to appease foreign nationals that have invaded our country and foreign governments that willingly aid this invasion. If this were any other country in the world they would have declared war on the invaders. I think the Consulate would do well to get his big fat nose out of our business. He should try to fix the problems in his country instead of dumping their problems on us.

    What is wrong with this country when we let foreign governments use us as a whipping boy? Why do we let foreign governments tell us what to do? Since when did they become God over us?

    What is wrong with us when we no longer take pride in our own country when we let foreigners run over top of us? Do we hate ourselves so much that we are willing to bow down to foreign powers? We seemed to have lost what President Reagan tried to give us and we’ve lost it since he left. Why are we ashamed to be Americans?

    This country is a great country. We need to preserve it, proctect it and be loyal to it. We have the best country in the world and we should not let any foreign governments tell us otherwise.

  25. Red, White and Blue said on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:38 pm:
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    To all:

    The law is clear. There were hundreds of aliens present during the entire recourse of events. They met at local churches for a briefing and additional paperwork. Letters and opinions about the law have been in the JM. This is not a hidden issue.

    My simple question, without knowing the facts as of yet. Why does the Chief have a meeting with the Mexican government to explain anything about the 287g program? Again, so much information has been disseminated already. There isn’t any secret about it.

    If some of you want to reserve judgement, fine but questioning a motive and reason for this meeting is most reasonable especially when it is in two languages.

    The fact is we have illegals here. The law is starting to work. Criminals are being deported or at least subject to deportation. What more is there to discuss?

    The big cry of “family separation” (the new victim to cry over) seems to be the standard to show compassion in an attempt to overturn or ignore the law. Sorry, crime is crime and illegal is illegal. When our troops go overseas, there is family separation. When other criminals go to jail, there is family separation. Deane owes everyone an explanation, plain and simple. He works for us, not the Mexican government. If Corey Stewart had done this, the hatchet would have been swinging with full force so what is the difference - the voters have a right to know and that is the way the democratic system works - checks and balances.

  26. Riley said on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:40 pm:
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    Well, Bruno, more than 55 percent of county voters disagreed with your perception of the chairman just a few months ago.

    Perhaps Gerry Connolly and Fairfax may be more to your liking.

    PWC has grown into the 2nd largest county in VA and one of the top 20 wealthiest counties in the U.S. This isn’t the same county it was when Chief Deane stepped into that role. Times have changed, but he has not. He may have been good for his time, but that has passed. We have new challenges in this county and it requires new leadership in the police dept.

    [Ed note: this is in response to a duplicate posting alleging that the Rule of Law Resolution was unnecessary that also appears on the thread “Chief Deane: I Answer To No One”. Instead of allowing “Bruno” to open two identical discussions on different threads, his posting on this thread was removed.]

  27. Citizen 12 said on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:45 pm:
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    Los Estados Latinos
    HE’S COMING TO AMERICA
    By editor on February 8th, 2008
    Mexico City, DF, Mexico,_ Mexico’s new President, Felipe Calderon, is about to make his debut in the U.S. during perhaps the most interesting season ever between these neighboring countries.
    Last week Calderon sought formal authorization from his Senate to visit their northern neighbor and have occasion to meet and listen to the voices of Mexican nationals residing in the U.S…….
    Expectations will be high in the Latino community and time will tell if he can effectively steer the future in a direction other than ICE raids and the over 1500 proposed local and state laws now making their way thru decision making bodies across the country.

    And the folks in Idaho are taking the news of a Mexican Consulate in their state pretty seriously. I suppose it could be nervous banter but ….

    www.alipac.us/ftopict-105401.html

  28. CitizenofManassas said on 29 Mar 2008 at 12:39 am:
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    Anyone who does not believe there is an effort on the part of Mexico to undermine our Seventy needs to get a new brain. Maybe if this stupid SOB would spend as much time and energy on creating jobs in his own Country as he does on getting illegals into our Nation, there would not be half the number of illegals.

  29. Chris Royse said on 29 Mar 2008 at 8:03 am:
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    “Family separation,” please. On 9-11 thousands of US families (yes, and families from other nations residing here legally for work) were “separated” when one or more members were viciously slaughtered at the hands of those residing in this country illegally. Anybody got an update on them? Again, this issue is not about any race or culture, but the rule of law and the protection of the homeland.

    Mexico has overstepped its position for years, Calderon himself has threatened our Congress if they add any immigration requirements to the millions of dollars in funding we give them every year to “counter” narcotics. He wants the money with no strings attached. Stay home little beggar.

    Whoever our next President is, they’ll need to get a handle on the security in this hemisphere and particularly the homeland. There is a growing Marxist insurgency (note not “Jihadist Islamic” per se) in our southern hemisphere; freedom of movement through Mexico by paying bribes to get to our porous border which exists due to complacent elected officials and corrupt government officials and cops is setting us up for disaster.

    Homeland Security means we all work together and think before we act; assume no government has our best interest in mind and converse accordingly, Homeland Security Begins in the Hometown.

  30. Patty said on 29 Mar 2008 at 9:16 am:
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    Here is an amazing statement from Supervisor Jenkins that I read in today’s (March 29, 2008) Washington Post:

    “The Chairman cannot unilaterally issue a directive to staff. He is not the spokesman for the county,” Jenkins said. “It’s inappropriate. THE CHIEF DOES NOT WORK FOR ANY BOARD MEMBER; HE WORKS FOR THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE (emphasis mine).”

    According to Supervisor Jenkins the County staff is an autonomous body seperate from our Board of County Supervisors. Okay folks you have a section of the County government that is not accountable to our elected officials and not an elected body. Wouldn’t that be unconstitutional. Maybe we should elect our County Executive and Chief of Police. Bob Marshall, where are you?

  31. starryflights said on 29 Mar 2008 at 9:25 am:
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    Jenkins will not get my vote in the next election. He shouldn’t be making public statements to try and make the Chairman of BOCS or any other BOCS look bad. Shame on him!

  32. Dennis Carr said on 29 Mar 2008 at 9:29 am:
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    So much talk about nothing.

    Part of Mexico’s GNP is Hispanic people that live ten to a house and send most of their money home to the family. Saving just enough to house and eat, what little is left over buys 7 six-packs of beer a week and enough gasoline to run the neighbors kids over. Certainly not enough is left over to buy a prostitute, so they go to the playground to get your children.

    I have a t-shirt! It states simply, “ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL” I have worn it to the Carpentersville Village meetings, much to the dismay of the sitting Mayor, who by chance happened to send a letter to the editor in 2000 about the ILLEGAL problem! Now he flip-flops all over the place like a crap in heat, not willing to stand behind the ordinance that was proposed. Reason? Five thousand illegal supporters bussed in from all over the place to protest. So many that I could not get safely to the Village Hall that night in October of 2006. The officals had SWAT teams lined up in the defunct Jewel Tea lot with Military rifles and dogs to take out the un-ruly! How much did that police action cost and who paid for it?

    You already know that answer….

  33. Bob Wills said on 29 Mar 2008 at 12:55 pm:
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    Patty said on 29 Mar 2008 at 9:16 am:
    Here is an amazing statement from Supervisor Jenkins that I read in today’s (March 29, 2008) Washington Post:

    “The Chairman cannot unilaterally issue a directive to staff. He is not the spokesman for the county,” Jenkins said. “It’s inappropriate. THE CHIEF DOES NOT WORK FOR ANY BOARD MEMBER; HE WORKS FOR THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE (emphasis mine).”

    According to Supervisor Jenkins the County staff is an autonomous body seperate from our Board of County Supervisors. Okay folks you have a section of the County government that is not accountable to our elected officials and not an elected body. Wouldn’t that be unconstitutional. Maybe we should elect our County Executive and Chief of Police. Bob Marshall, where are you?

    Patty why do have a problem with the truth? I think that Jenkins should be replaced as much as anyone. The BOCS is no different then the Board of Directors of a large corporation, The CEO of a compny is the one who runs it and give orders just as our form of government with a County Executive. If want the incompetents we have on the BOCS to be the one who tells county employees what to do that would be a far worse mess then what we have now. Wich one of the fools elected to be Board should an employee listen to? Stewart or Jenkins they both have the same amount of power and rights and no more then anyother one and are equily usless. Get over the idea that what people want is how the Rule of Law operates in this country. There is no legal “will of the people” to enact laws. The public in PWC is already buying into the lies of the politicians who tell them what the public wants to hear before election and do not follow thru after the election. Do you want judges elected who as reported in the news in other state whos decisions are influnced by the popular vote and amount of moeny contributed to their compain rather then the laws of the Constitution? We already have the finest politicians that money can buy in Congress, or Commenwealth and local government. Do you want more people who screw thing sup then that controling your tax dollar?

  34. Patty said on 29 Mar 2008 at 1:40 pm:
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    Bob,

    We have a Consitution. We have a republic. We have a representative government, you know, by the people, for the people. Everyone needs accountability. The County Executive, the Chief of Police and the County staff are not autonomous as Jenkins would like them to be.

    I think Jenkins comments were totally out of line.

  35. Bob Wills said on 29 Mar 2008 at 3:23 pm:
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    Patty yes we do have a Contitution thank goodness.

    The Chief of Police and the County Staff are autonomous as far as the Board telling them what they can and will do. That is the right of the County Executive.

    The County Executive just as the Superintendent of Schools serves at the pleasure and contract terms of either of their respective Board .

    Everyone has a right to think and have opinions but that does not change the Laws. But that does not give a group of people the right to impose thier will on others because they are stronger or more of them. That is why the lynch mob is illegal and a crime.

  36. Bob Wills said on 29 Mar 2008 at 3:30 pm:
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    Riley said on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:40 pm:
    Well, Bruno, more than 55 percent of county voters disagreed with your perception of the chairman just a few months ago.

    And that is why he was elected but at that point there is no more legal right to make laws or impose a legal will on others. Lets see how many promises he keeps and how well this county fairs under his lack of leardership. He showed how little he has when he could not even get a tax rate to be advertised so that the county could move forward and not futher disparage our reputation.

  37. Patty said on 29 Mar 2008 at 10:18 pm:
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    Bob,

    I’m going to take your point further. We shouldn’t have foreign governments conducting meetings with the Chief of Police. We shouldn’t have Mexicans Without Borders or the Woodbridge Worker’s Association swaying our Police Chief into not enforcing any law. Seems like when the WWA got a hold of Deane we’ve had the worst loitering around 7-11’s that I have ever seen in my whole life.

    As a citizen I have the right to know why the Police Chief is meeting with a Mexican Consulate. It’s all about accountability. That’s why our government is based on a system of checks and balances.

    Thank you Mr. Lawler for teaching government class!

  38. Patty said on 29 Mar 2008 at 10:42 pm:
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    Bob,

    This might interest you: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/government/countyexec/

  39. Dolph said on 30 Mar 2008 at 2:12 pm:
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    Patty,

    Chief Deane works for the Country Executive Officer. He cannot be taking orders from each individual supervisor, otherwise he would be going in 8 different directions. Large counties are run like corporations and follow a chain of command.

    Now, can all the supervisors get together and make a decision about how things are going to happen? Sure they can. (and they did) Both CXO and Chief are accountable to the collective BOCS. But one person doesn’t call the shots at the elected level. That is all Mr. Jenkins is trying to say. Otherwise, we would live in a mini-dictatorship and I am sure you don’t want that and neither do I.

    Chief answers to his boss, the CXO, who in turn answers to the BOCS and the BOCS answers to the voters in the magisterial districts, except for the chair who answers to all of us.

    I like schematics. That way everyone knows who is answering to whom. The schematics allows us to refresh our memories when we forget.

  40. Patty said on 30 Mar 2008 at 3:10 pm:
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    Dolph,

    I understand that. From what I read in the Post today Stewart asked Deane as a request not a demand (Prince William Extra, The Washington Post, pgs. 1-2, dated March 30, 2008). A Mexican consulate sponsoring a meeting with the Chief is outside the scope of day to day operations of the Chief of Police. Chief Deane should have realized based on the questions from Chairman Stewart that this meeting was causing concern among the citizens. He should have delayed until he could speak to the board about it. I know I AND my neighbors called Chairman Stewart’s office to find out what is going on that a Consulate is holding a meeting with the Chief. Chief Deane should have realized that this would agitate citizens who already feel disenfranchised from their government after having to put up with years of lawlessness by illegal aliens residing in this county with impunity.

  41. Bob Wills said on 30 Mar 2008 at 6:56 pm:
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    Bob,

    This might interest you: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/government/countyexec/

    Patty

    what is your point? Yes the BOCS ” control” but they do it thru the County Executive not directly. They do have control over the planning commission and other commission as shown on the chart but not over the different departments. I lived in Fairfax county before they had a county exectutive and the whole county operated in those two story brick buildings at the corner of 123 and 236 where that old court room is.

  42. Bob Wills said on 30 Mar 2008 at 7:02 pm:
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    Patty said on 29 Mar 2008 at 10:18 pm:
    Bob,

    I’m going to take your point further. We shouldn’t have foreign governments conducting meetings with the Chief of Police. We shouldn’t have Mexicans Without Borders or the Woodbridge Worker’s Association swaying our Police Chief into not enforcing any law. Seems like when the WWA got a hold of Deane we’ve had the worst loitering around 7-11’s that I have ever seen in my whole life.

    As a citizen I have the right to know why the Police Chief is meeting with a Mexican Consulate. It’s all about accountability. That’s why our government is based on a system of checks and balances.

    Thank you Mr. Lawler for teaching government class!

    Patty

    So you are saying that without approval from the BOCS and the State Department that no local or US government employee should be allowed to talk on the phone or meet in person if someone with has a Diplomatic pass port on any matter? You can not say it is wrong for the Chief of Police to do it but others can. That is the history lesson that you and maybe Mr Lawler have fogotten. A Diplomate could not ask about what is required for building permit or what can be takne to the Landfill the county operates and controls. What a disaster it would be if they wanted to bring something to the landfill that we did not allow and how that would subvert our government and its laws. It either applies to everyone or no one. We have laws against discrimination where one person has more rights then another person but too many people think the will of the people makes or laws and what can be imposed on others.

  43. Patty said on 30 Mar 2008 at 8:05 pm:
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    Bob,

    I have to admit. Sometimes I have a hard time understanding you.

    One thing I do know, this meeting with the Consulate was not a casual meeting. It was official business and it was sponsored by the Mexican Consulate. Do not attempt to use an example of a casual phone call. You are mixing apples and oranges here Bob. Let’s try to have a debate on what it is and not on what it could have been. If you have ties to certain persons than leave names out of it. Let’s talk about whether it is appropriate for an agent of a foriegn government to bypass the State Department, not contact elected officials and go straight to a County employee where the subject matter is about official local government laws/business and subsequently sponsors a meeting with said County employee. I believe that is not only irregular but entirely inappropriate.

  44. Patty said on 30 Mar 2008 at 8:11 pm:
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    I should have added, “and how those laws are implemented.”

  45. Bob Wills said on 30 Mar 2008 at 9:31 pm:
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    Patty said on 30 Mar 2008 at 8:05 pm:
    Bob,

    I have to admit. Sometimes I have a hard time understanding you.

    Not a problem it is my birth place :)))

    One thing I do know, this meeting with the Consulate was not a casual meeting. It was official business and it was sponsored by the Mexican Consulate. Do not attempt to use an example of a casual phone call. You are mixing apples and oranges here Bob. Let’s try to have a debate on what it is and not on what it could have been. If you have ties to certain persons than leave names out of it. Let’s talk about whether it is appropriate for an agent of a foriegn government to bypass the State Department, not contact elected officials and go straight to a County employee where the subject matter is about official local government laws/business and subsequently sponsors a meeting with said County employee. I believe that is not only irregular but entirely inappropriate.

    Patty said on 30 Mar 2008 at 8:11 pm:
    I should have added, “and how those laws are implemented.”

    What apples and oranges am I mixing? I operate on the basis that laws are laws and they apply all the time not when one would like or how they would like it to be. I have personaly been involved in many years of court ligitation both professionaly and personaly where some government or business took the position you will do what I want not what the law says. I believe in the position that the Constitution protects one individual just as much as the other 300 million people in this country. We do not operate on the basis of what the will of the people is in any matter other then voting for elected officials. Ther oath of office says they will uphold the laws of the Constitution of the US and of the State and government they were elected to represent.

    With that said I ask if the position being promorted that Deane did something legagly wrong by talking or meeting publicly or in a room priviatly with some one who has a Diplomatic Pass port then would not that same position have to be taken if it happened with any and all government employees.? Deane nor anyother government employee can make or change laws. Only the elected officials of that form of government can make or change laws not employees. It does not matter if it is the chief of police the county executive or the trash collector.

    The positon that Deane was wrong in meeting with the Mexican would mean that no member of Congress or thier staff could talk or meet in any manor with someone who has a Diplomatic Passport and I doubt that is the law.

    The real questions are one was it legal. If it was legal then the question of being appropriate comes up and that is legimate but the two items are seperate. Was the BOCS directive to communicate how the police would implement the resolution well defined or was it so vague as to be wide open? What I do not accept is for people to imply a law was broken with out facts or to take the position it applies to some employees but not to others. It is all or nothing and no special exceptions. We have too many exceptions to the law in the PWC government. Caddigan says no to Walmart and gets restrictive laws passed to try and stop big retail buildings over 80,000 Sq ft. Let a Wagmans come along and all of a sudden the laws are broken and ignored because they like this one. You can not have it both ways but who cares about laws on the PWC BOCS or even the public saddly enough.

    No matter what the Chief of Police answers to the County Executive not the BOCS in PWC or in Fairfax either. There is a chain of command and we will see how legal that is now with the case coming up in Loudon county where an employee was fired when they bypassed the County Executive with some report that he did not feel would make it to the BOCS in total and to where he wanted it to be.

  46. Patty said on 30 Mar 2008 at 9:47 pm:
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    Bob,

    This is what you said: “We do not operate on the basis of what the will of the people is in any matter other then voting for elected officials.”

    Okay Bob, does this mean we shouldn’t petition our government? Should the BOCS do away with public hearings and citizen’s time? And does that mean you aren’t going to citizen’s time anymore?

  47. Bob Wills said on 31 Mar 2008 at 12:42 am:
    Flag comment

    Patty said on 30 Mar 2008 at 9:47 pm:
    Bob,

    This is what you said: “We do not operate on the basis of what the will of the people is in any matter other then voting for elected officials.”

    That is the law and just fact. That is the only legal thing people can do regarding the laws and their implemention. We can not introduce laws or sign or veto them. Only elected offcials can do that. We can give them our opinons and thoughts but that is all. Unless you consider how much money they are given toward their elections and get bought off.

    Okay Bob, does this mean we shouldn’t petition our government? Should the BOCS do away with public hearings and citizen’s time? And does that mean you aren’t going to citizen’s time anymore?

    Now you are putting your words and thoughts and that I have never said or implied.

    We certainly have the right to petition or government. That is a Constitutional right. Even if it is just one person doing that. Right now I am the only person trying to get an injured Vet or an infermed person the same right to buildings that our BOCS give by amending the zoning laws that they give to a horse or related jackass.

    Public hearings are a right of law and required by Law Does Stewart care if he changes the law to meet his time frame when it is obvious he has made up his mind of what people are supposed to do absolutly not .

    As long are the rights of people are not infringed or being abused I would rather be off diving or something else rarther then going to a Board where I know they have no idea what they are doing. There are several people and governments who wish they had never heard of me. Baltimore County told my mother who fell at work and was in the hospital for almost two weeks that she was too old to be hurt on the job and could not be disabled. After the fall and hospital she came to live with me for almost 14 years until she had to go to assisted living. It took 9 years in court to get a final resolution and it was in her favor. The County Executive ( now he is in Congress )also put in writing that because she was disabled and only for that reason they would not do a direct deposit for disability checks but only for those who were retired or worked for the county. They finaly agreed to hand deliver those checks rather then do a direct deposit before a Workers Comp Judge. I could give you more examples in my family of this kind of abuse by Government. Trust me I will contiune to speak out about injustis and abuse of power by government or business.

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