This is what you said: “We do not operate on the basis of what the will of the people is in any matter other then voting for elected officials.”

That is the law and just fact. That is the only legal thing people can do regarding the laws and their implemention. We can not introduce laws or sign or veto them. Only elected offcials can do that. We can give them our opinons and thoughts but that is all. Unless you consider how much money they are given toward their elections and get bought off.

Okay Bob, does this mean we shouldn’t petition our government? Should the BOCS do away with public hearings and citizen’s time? And does that mean you aren’t going to citizen’s time anymore?

Now you are putting your words and thoughts and that I have never said or implied.

We certainly have the right to petition or government. That is a Constitutional right. Even if it is just one person doing that. Right now I am the only person trying to get an injured Vet or an infermed person the same right to buildings that our BOCS give by amending the zoning laws that they give to a horse or related jackass.

Public hearings are a right of law and required by Law Does Stewart care if he changes the law to meet his time frame when it is obvious he has made up his mind of what people are supposed to do absolutly not .

As long are the rights of people are not infringed or being abused I would rather be off diving or something else rarther then going to a Board where I know they have no idea what they are doing. There are several people and governments who wish they had never heard of me. Baltimore County told my mother who fell at work and was in the hospital for almost two weeks that she was too old to be hurt on the job and could not be disabled. After the fall and hospital she came to live with me for almost 14 years until she had to go to assisted living. It took 9 years in court to get a final resolution and it was in her favor. The County Executive ( now he is in Congress )also put in writing that because she was disabled and only for that reason they would not do a direct deposit for disability checks but only for those who were retired or worked for the county. They finaly agreed to hand deliver those checks rather then do a direct deposit before a Workers Comp Judge. I could give you more examples in my family of this kind of abuse by Government. Trust me I will contiune to speak out about injustis and abuse of power by government or business.

This is what you said: “We do not operate on the basis of what the will of the people is in any matter other then voting for elected officials.”

Okay Bob, does this mean we shouldn’t petition our government? Should the BOCS do away with public hearings and citizen’s time? And does that mean you aren’t going to citizen’s time anymore?

I have to admit. Sometimes I have a hard time understanding you.

Not a problem it is my birth place :)))

One thing I do know, this meeting with the Consulate was not a casual meeting. It was official business and it was sponsored by the Mexican Consulate. Do not attempt to use an example of a casual phone call. You are mixing apples and oranges here Bob. Let’s try to have a debate on what it is and not on what it could have been. If you have ties to certain persons than leave names out of it. Let’s talk about whether it is appropriate for an agent of a foriegn government to bypass the State Department, not contact elected officials and go straight to a County employee where the subject matter is about official local government laws/business and subsequently sponsors a meeting with said County employee. I believe that is not only irregular but entirely inappropriate.

Patty said on 30 Mar 2008 at 8:11 pm:
I should have added, “and how those laws are implemented.”

What apples and oranges am I mixing? I operate on the basis that laws are laws and they apply all the time not when one would like or how they would like it to be. I have personaly been involved in many years of court ligitation both professionaly and personaly where some government or business took the position you will do what I want not what the law says. I believe in the position that the Constitution protects one individual just as much as the other 300 million people in this country. We do not operate on the basis of what the will of the people is in any matter other then voting for elected officials. Ther oath of office says they will uphold the laws of the Constitution of the US and of the State and government they were elected to represent.

With that said I ask if the position being promorted that Deane did something legagly wrong by talking or meeting publicly or in a room priviatly with some one who has a Diplomatic Pass port then would not that same position have to be taken if it happened with any and all government employees.? Deane nor anyother government employee can make or change laws. Only the elected officials of that form of government can make or change laws not employees. It does not matter if it is the chief of police the county executive or the trash collector.

The positon that Deane was wrong in meeting with the Mexican would mean that no member of Congress or thier staff could talk or meet in any manor with someone who has a Diplomatic Passport and I doubt that is the law.

The real questions are one was it legal. If it was legal then the question of being appropriate comes up and that is legimate but the two items are seperate. Was the BOCS directive to communicate how the police would implement the resolution well defined or was it so vague as to be wide open? What I do not accept is for people to imply a law was broken with out facts or to take the position it applies to some employees but not to others. It is all or nothing and no special exceptions. We have too many exceptions to the law in the PWC government. Caddigan says no to Walmart and gets restrictive laws passed to try and stop big retail buildings over 80,000 Sq ft. Let a Wagmans come along and all of a sudden the laws are broken and ignored because they like this one. You can not have it both ways but who cares about laws on the PWC BOCS or even the public saddly enough.

No matter what the Chief of Police answers to the County Executive not the BOCS in PWC or in Fairfax either. There is a chain of command and we will see how legal that is now with the case coming up in Loudon county where an employee was fired when they bypassed the County Executive with some report that he did not feel would make it to the BOCS in total and to where he wanted it to be.

I have to admit. Sometimes I have a hard time understanding you.

One thing I do know, this meeting with the Consulate was not a casual meeting. It was official business and it was sponsored by the Mexican Consulate. Do not attempt to use an example of a casual phone call. You are mixing apples and oranges here Bob. Let’s try to have a debate on what it is and not on what it could have been. If you have ties to certain persons than leave names out of it. Let’s talk about whether it is appropriate for an agent of a foriegn government to bypass the State Department, not contact elected officials and go straight to a County employee where the subject matter is about official local government laws/business and subsequently sponsors a meeting with said County employee. I believe that is not only irregular but entirely inappropriate.

I’m going to take your point further. We shouldn’t have foreign governments conducting meetings with the Chief of Police. We shouldn’t have Mexicans Without Borders or the Woodbridge Worker’s Association swaying our Police Chief into not enforcing any law. Seems like when the WWA got a hold of Deane we’ve had the worst loitering around 7-11’s that I have ever seen in my whole life.

As a citizen I have the right to know why the Police Chief is meeting with a Mexican Consulate. It’s all about accountability. That’s why our government is based on a system of checks and balances.

Thank you Mr. Lawler for teaching government class!

Patty

So you are saying that without approval from the BOCS and the State Department that no local or US government employee should be allowed to talk on the phone or meet in person if someone with has a Diplomatic pass port on any matter? You can not say it is wrong for the Chief of Police to do it but others can. That is the history lesson that you and maybe Mr Lawler have fogotten. A Diplomate could not ask about what is required for building permit or what can be takne to the Landfill the county operates and controls. What a disaster it would be if they wanted to bring something to the landfill that we did not allow and how that would subvert our government and its laws. It either applies to everyone or no one. We have laws against discrimination where one person has more rights then another person but too many people think the will of the people makes or laws and what can be imposed on others.

This might interest you: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/government/countyexec/

Patty

what is your point? Yes the BOCS ” control” but they do it thru the County Executive not directly. They do have control over the planning commission and other commission as shown on the chart but not over the different departments. I lived in Fairfax county before they had a county exectutive and the whole county operated in those two story brick buildings at the corner of 123 and 236 where that old court room is.

I understand that. From what I read in the Post today Stewart asked Deane as a request not a demand (Prince William Extra, The Washington Post, pgs. 1-2, dated March 30, 2008). A Mexican consulate sponsoring a meeting with the Chief is outside the scope of day to day operations of the Chief of Police. Chief Deane should have realized based on the questions from Chairman Stewart that this meeting was causing concern among the citizens. He should have delayed until he could speak to the board about it. I know I AND my neighbors called Chairman Stewart’s office to find out what is going on that a Consulate is holding a meeting with the Chief. Chief Deane should have realized that this would agitate citizens who already feel disenfranchised from their government after having to put up with years of lawlessness by illegal aliens residing in this county with impunity.

Chief Deane works for the Country Executive Officer. He cannot be taking orders from each individual supervisor, otherwise he would be going in 8 different directions. Large counties are run like corporations and follow a chain of command.

Now, can all the supervisors get together and make a decision about how things are going to happen? Sure they can. (and they did) Both CXO and Chief are accountable to the collective BOCS. But one person doesn’t call the shots at the elected level. That is all Mr. Jenkins is trying to say. Otherwise, we would live in a mini-dictatorship and I am sure you don’t want that and neither do I.

Chief answers to his boss, the CXO, who in turn answers to the BOCS and the BOCS answers to the voters in the magisterial districts, except for the chair who answers to all of us.

I like schematics. That way everyone knows who is answering to whom. The schematics allows us to refresh our memories when we forget.

This might interest you: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/government/countyexec/

I’m going to take your point further. We shouldn’t have foreign governments conducting meetings with the Chief of Police. We shouldn’t have Mexicans Without Borders or the Woodbridge Worker’s Association swaying our Police Chief into not enforcing any law. Seems like when the WWA got a hold of Deane we’ve had the worst loitering around 7-11’s that I have ever seen in my whole life.

As a citizen I have the right to know why the Police Chief is meeting with a Mexican Consulate. It’s all about accountability. That’s why our government is based on a system of checks and balances.

Thank you Mr. Lawler for teaching government class!

And that is why he was elected but at that point there is no more legal right to make laws or impose a legal will on others. Lets see how many promises he keeps and how well this county fairs under his lack of leardership. He showed how little he has when he could not even get a tax rate to be advertised so that the county could move forward and not futher disparage our reputation.

The Chief of Police and the County Staff are autonomous as far as the Board telling them what they can and will do. That is the right of the County Executive.

The County Executive just as the Superintendent of Schools serves at the pleasure and contract terms of either of their respective Board .

Everyone has a right to think and have opinions but that does not change the Laws. But that does not give a group of people the right to impose thier will on others because they are stronger or more of them. That is why the lynch mob is illegal and a crime.

We have a Consitution. We have a republic. We have a representative government, you know, by the people, for the people. Everyone needs accountability. The County Executive, the Chief of Police and the County staff are not autonomous as Jenkins would like them to be.

I think Jenkins comments were totally out of line.

“The Chairman cannot unilaterally issue a directive to staff. He is not the spokesman for the county,” Jenkins said. “It’s inappropriate. THE CHIEF DOES NOT WORK FOR ANY BOARD MEMBER; HE WORKS FOR THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE (emphasis mine).”

According to Supervisor Jenkins the County staff is an autonomous body seperate from our Board of County Supervisors. Okay folks you have a section of the County government that is not accountable to our elected officials and not an elected body. Wouldn’t that be unconstitutional. Maybe we should elect our County Executive and Chief of Police. Bob Marshall, where are you?

Patty why do have a problem with the truth? I think that Jenkins should be replaced as much as anyone. The BOCS is no different then the Board of Directors of a large corporation, The CEO of a compny is the one who runs it and give orders just as our form of government with a County Executive. If want the incompetents we have on the BOCS to be the one who tells county employees what to do that would be a far worse mess then what we have now. Wich one of the fools elected to be Board should an employee listen to? Stewart or Jenkins they both have the same amount of power and rights and no more then anyother one and are equily usless. Get over the idea that what people want is how the Rule of Law operates in this country. There is no legal “will of the people” to enact laws. The public in PWC is already buying into the lies of the politicians who tell them what the public wants to hear before election and do not follow thru after the election. Do you want judges elected who as reported in the news in other state whos decisions are influnced by the popular vote and amount of moeny contributed to their compain rather then the laws of the Constitution? We already have the finest politicians that money can buy in Congress, or Commenwealth and local government. Do you want more people who screw thing sup then that controling your tax dollar?

Part of Mexico’s GNP is Hispanic people that live ten to a house and send most of their money home to the family. Saving just enough to house and eat, what little is left over buys 7 six-packs of beer a week and enough gasoline to run the neighbors kids over. Certainly not enough is left over to buy a prostitute, so they go to the playground to get your children.

I have a t-shirt! It states simply, “ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL” I have worn it to the Carpentersville Village meetings, much to the dismay of the sitting Mayor, who by chance happened to send a letter to the editor in 2000 about the ILLEGAL problem! Now he flip-flops all over the place like a crap in heat, not willing to stand behind the ordinance that was proposed. Reason? Five thousand illegal supporters bussed in from all over the place to protest. So many that I could not get safely to the Village Hall that night in October of 2006. The officals had SWAT teams lined up in the defunct Jewel Tea lot with Military rifles and dogs to take out the un-ruly! How much did that police action cost and who paid for it?

You already know that answer….

“The Chairman cannot unilaterally issue a directive to staff. He is not the spokesman for the county,” Jenkins said. “It’s inappropriate. THE CHIEF DOES NOT WORK FOR ANY BOARD MEMBER; HE WORKS FOR THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE (emphasis mine).”

According to Supervisor Jenkins the County staff is an autonomous body seperate from our Board of County Supervisors. Okay folks you have a section of the County government that is not accountable to our elected officials and not an elected body. Wouldn’t that be unconstitutional. Maybe we should elect our County Executive and Chief of Police. Bob Marshall, where are you?

Mexico has overstepped its position for years, Calderon himself has threatened our Congress if they add any immigration requirements to the millions of dollars in funding we give them every year to “counter” narcotics. He wants the money with no strings attached. Stay home little beggar.

Whoever our next President is, they’ll need to get a handle on the security in this hemisphere and particularly the homeland. There is a growing Marxist insurgency (note not “Jihadist Islamic” per se) in our southern hemisphere; freedom of movement through Mexico by paying bribes to get to our porous border which exists due to complacent elected officials and corrupt government officials and cops is setting us up for disaster.

Homeland Security means we all work together and think before we act; assume no government has our best interest in mind and converse accordingly, Homeland Security Begins in the Hometown.