Herndon Gears Up For A Battle
By Greg L | 3 April 2008 | Fairfax County | 149 Comments
It’s four square miles, has 25,000 residents, and would be a somewhat unremarkable jurisdiction had it not become the first Virginia jurisdiction to face the tsunami of illegal immigrants that later crashed into Manassas, Manassas Park and Prince William County, thus becoming ground zero for the opening salvo in Northern Virginia’s battle to rescue our communities from the scourge of illegal immigration. That battle continues in Herndon between the forces that want to make it a sanctuary for illegal immigration and those that want to enforce the rule of law.
In September of 2005, over the strenuous objections of the citizens of Herndon, the O’Reilly-Bruce town council approved the creation of a taxpayer-funded illegal immigrant hiring site on town-owned property. The citizens were outraged, and in May 2006 the voters threw out the mayor and council members that supported the hiring site. In their place they elected a new mayor and five council members that would enforce the rule of law.
What Herndon’s new mayor and council have accomplished in the last twenty months is absolutely phenomenal and should serve as a shining example of what committed elected officials can do to protect their community from the illegal immigrant invasion. Herndon became the first town in the United States to get their police officers trained to enforce federal immigration law under the 287(g) program, required business license applicants to certify that they are legally present in the U.S. and required town vendors to certify that illegal immigrants will not work on town contracts, and managed to get the publicly-funded day laborer center which was attracting ever more illegal aliens to the town shut down. Residential overcrowding and illegal boarding houses have been reduced by two-thirds, day laborers no longer plague the commercial district, and the quality of life in Herndon has been largely restored to what it had been. Not a bad record for a group of elected officials that their adversaries claimed would fail miserably because of their inexperience.
In May of this year the citizens of Herndon get a chance to confirm that Herndon must not return to being a sanctuary for illegal immigrants. The ballot for the Herndon election has three people running for mayor and ten people running for town council seats. The mayoral candidates are the incumbent Steve DeBenedittis, Harlon Reece a supporter of illegal immigrants and the taxpayer funded hiring site and Jazbender Singh, an advocate for removing all controls on businesses and developers.
The candidates for town council seats break down into three distinct groups. The first group supports illegal immigrants and re-establishing the taxpayer funded hiring site but their real motivation for running is to increase the value of the property they own in downtown Herndon. Richard Downer and Arthur Nachman stand to profit handsomely if they can vote to maximize development density in Herndon’s downtown.
Downer (or his immediate family) owns a property on Pine Street and Nachman owns a larger property on Lynn Street and a property at the corner of Lynn and Station Street. They both stand to quadruple the value of their properties if a proposed 4-5 story hotel is approved at the corner of Monrow and Elden Street. JPI Incorporated has proposed a redevelopment of the downtown that includes 600 condominiums, 70,000 square feet of retail, a 600+ space parking garage and a 250 seat theater. This “project maximo” will increase the value of both the Downer and the Nachman property as they are both ripe for redevelopment. With so much personally at stake, Nachman has committed to a campaign budget that is ten times what is normally spent on Town Council campaigns, and by all appearances is trying to buy, or perhaps more accurately, invest in a seat on the Town Council that could yield tremendous personal financial benefits for him.
The Reece for Mayor campaign is similarly well funded, but the source of these funds appears to be from outside interests. It’s not clear at this point whether the funding is coming from the Democratic Party of Virginia or perhaps Casa de Maryland. The campaign finance statements of this illegal alien-friendly business group should be rather interesting to review once they’re available.
The second group is a carryover from the pro illegal immigrant faction. Penny Halpren and Shelia Olem have little experience in town government and their campaigns are being directed and managed by the losing candidates in the last election. Re-establishing a taxpayer-funded day laborer center and dismantling Herndon’s successful efforts to discourage the unlawful presence of illegal aliens is the clear agenda of this group.
The last group is the incumbents and those responsible for Herndon’s successes, Dennis Husch, Connie Hutchinson, David Kirby, William Tirrell and Charlie Waddell. They are joined by James Vickery, a retired Fairfax County police officer who trained Iraqi police in Baghdad with Blackwater.
Herndon serves as a beacon of hope and shows us all what can be accomplished to rid our communities of illegal immigrants. Hopefully the voters in Herndon will re-elect the supporters of the rule of law; Steve DeBenedittis as mayor and Husch, Hutchinson, Kirby, Tirrell, Waddell and newcomer Vickery as members of town council. Should these accomplishments be dismantled, the implications for other Virginia jurisdictions that are attempting to address the illegal alien issue would be rather troublesome.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
You can follow the discussion through the Comments feed. You can also pingback or trackback from your own site.
…please click here to receive an immediate apology.
Priceless! …and well done.
Lived there until I was 6. My father’s family were all born in Herndon. House is on the Historical Register. I can see nothing has really changed there in the past 100 years. KKK had a very strong presence in Herndon many years ago and managed to run off all the blacks. Not saying they are present there now but am saying the thinking certainly does not seem to have changed any. Too bad! What a shame!
Another Anonymous, throwing the racist bomb from behind a fence. How brave you are! Nice try, but it doesn’t work.
Hurrah for folks who put a stop to the degredation of their home caused by overcrowding and lawless behavior. Let’s hope that the big money being trucked in to help unseat them goes for naught, and all get re-elected.
Umm, not that I am Daniel Webster, but I think the apology could use a good spell checking.
I would be very interested to know where and from whom you got your information re “Nachman has committed to a campaign budget that is ten times what is normally spent on Town Council campaigns…”? How much is “normal” in your estimation, Greg?
The remark about Harlon Reece’s campaign “being similarly well funded, but the source of these funds appears to be from outside interests. It’s not clear at this point whether the funding is coming from the Democratic Party of Virginia or perhaps Casa de Maryland. The campaign finance statements of this illegal alien-friendly business group should be rather interesting to review once they’re available.” is superbly underhanded and snide with “data” grabbed out of thin air.
First, the mayor and council members are NOT running as members of either the Democratic or Republican party and I doubt VERY much whether DPofV would become involved in the Town election campaign.
(your “apology” shows a twisted kind of humor)
Second, you yourself state that you do not know anything abt Casa de Maryland’s campaign finance statements “should be rather interesting to review ONCE THEY’RE AVAILABLE.” (capitals mine). So you are stating something as FACT when, in fact, you know nothing about it.
Oh, Herndon soooooooo does not need Help Save Manassas to try to Help Save Herndon!
First of all, it’s Penny Halpern, not Peggy.
Do you always listen to Dennis’s diatribes and quickly run to post them as the gospel truth?
Check your facts: Sheila Olem served on the Town of Herndon’s Board of Zoning Appeals for seven years. She was the Vice Chair until Dennis and his minions decided that if you don’t march in lock step with the Town Council, you are not fit to serve. She’s also been involved and worked on various boards and commissions at the County level.
I suggest we do a fair comparison of several current council members experience in government with several of those running… the results might shock you.
Anon,
So, you approve of child rapists and murderers being able to run free in Herndon?
Level-headed Herndon Resident
“CitizenofManassas” is obviously a parrot with no real grasp on the realities in the Town of Herndon.
We do not have “rapists and murderers running free”. We have 24,000 residents and your blanket characterization applies to how many?
. . . based on what statistics? . . . and from what sources?
As an owner of commercial property on Pine Street in Herndon, I would like to inform you that the Old Stone Church on Pine Street is owned by Douglas Downer (his son), not Richard Downer. It is a historic building and cannot be demolished or expanded unless it meet very stringent conditions imposed by the Heritage Preservation Review Board. Doug is renovating the interior of the building for use by his company. The exterior is not being changed.
The proposed hotel will not enhance his business since his company is an insurance company. I can’t imagine hotel lodgers coming there to buy insurance. Richard sold this insurance company to Doug. Therefore, Richard has no vested interest nor gains any profit by running for Town Council. He served on the Town Council from 1971-1974 and again from 1990-2000. You can check him out on his web site www.Downer4Council.com and see his accomplishments and his Vision papers on Herndon issues.
I have known Sheila Olem for many years. She has a distinguished career serving on many County Boards and was Vice Chair of our BZA. She is a stickler for following Roberts Rules of Order and following Zoning Ordinances and Comprehensive Plans. Her web site is: saolem@verizon.net. Check her out too.
You know, as property owners in downtown Herndon, we are probably more concerned about what is approved then others not living or owning property in the downtown. Afterall, it is in our backyard (NIMBY). We want a viibrant exciting downtown. The Contract with JPI should not be approved without citizen input on what we want in our downtown. So why is this Council meeting in closed session with JPI negotiating a Contract?
Level headed,
Anon, thinks combating illegal immigration is on par with the KKK. Talk about not having a grasp of the situation. Anon must support illegal aliens, since they have a problem with upholding the law specifically when it comes to combating illegal immigration. Therefore, anon would not mind illegals who have committed such crimes as murder and rapes.
CitizenofManassas,
Anon must support illegal aliens, since they have a problem with upholding the law specifically when it comes to combating illegal immigration.
So does our federal government. But no matter, your thought process is not logical…
it’s like saying that just because I support the student athletes at Herndon High, I wouldn’t mind it if the quarter back raped my child.
Your overly broad generalizations and incorrect assumptions do nothing but perpetuate the image that most of the rest of the Northern Virginia generalizes about Manassas residents.
Resident,
So you are free to use assumptions about Manassas, but you do not want people to talk about your beloved illegals. Yup, that sure is being informed.
And, exactly what is that image? Because we do not embrace criminals that we are backwards?
Your logic is wrong, since Anon attacked the efforts to combat illegals. Meaning, he in fact supports illegals otherwise, why would he take offense to the City of Herndon, by way of a legal election sent the message the majority of voters were sick of bowing to the illegals.
Herndon is a town, not a city.
Oh Citizen, you couldn’t be more wrong. In fact, I used to live and work in Manassas, and there’s a reason why myself, and all my friends (including the ones who still live there), call it “Manass-hole” or “Dum-assas”.
But that’s not the point of this argument at all. The reason I jumped on you in the first place is because you said one of the most ignorant and inflammatory comments I have ever seen regarding the topic of illegal immigration and the day labor site.
Here, in case your short term memory is that bad, I’ll remind you…
“Anon,
So, you approve of child rapists and murderers being able to run free in Herndon?”
Just because I support doing something for the illegals that are here, including getting them work in my neighborhood which helps them feed their children, does not mean I support rapists and killers.
Plus, you still haven’t answered someone else that asked you to point to your sources which show that all illegal immigrants are rapists and murderers in Herndon… which just proves MY point.
But nice try!
Well, I suppose if they still live here, they must not have much of a problem with the City.
Are you telling me illegals do not rape and murder? If not, then chances are there are illegals who live in the Town of Herndon who have raped and murdered.
By supporting illegals, you are in fact aiding and abating criminals. How do you know the illegals you help out are not rapists and murderers? Though, I suppose you asked them and they gave you an honest answer, after all they are honest people who would never break the law or lie, right?
I’m glad we have one less criminal supporter living in Manassas.
CitizenofManassas, you do know white people rape and murder too. In fact, I have a case from your beloved city to show you in case you weren’t aware of that fact…
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1341758
Also, just to prove my point a little more, you can search for yourself on the Virginia Sex Offender list…
( http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/html/search.htm )
Manassas:
Search Results for City: MANASSAS - 136 matches [Click Photo or Name for detail]
Herndon:
Search Results for City: HERNDON - 35 matches [Click Photo or Name for detail]
Now, if you actually look at the list, most of the Herndon residents on the list are black or white.
Also, strangely, most of them seem to be old… :-/
A little liberal once told me that white people are the cause of all that’s wrong in the world.
Incidentally, that VSP search site is going by post office zip codes for the city name, not the actual city boundaries.
Correctly,
Where did I say they did not? Unlike you, or so it seems, I’m not supportive of any criminals. Though, I must ask how this is relevant to this thread and topic.
Stop making excuses for the criminal behavior of illegals. However, since you did go that route, exactly where are the supporters of these people? Do these people have foreign Governments attempting to undermine our laws for these people? I don’t believe I have ever read or heard anyone say American criminals are otherwise law abiding, and lets cut them slack since they are just trying to feed their families.
At what point do you consider the actions of illegals to be criminal?
CoM - Why don’t you check with the Herndon police dept.? You might get some FACTS; you know real, factual information.
I believe there’ve been two murders in Herndon withing the last 10-15 years. Both took place, not on a street, but right outside homes where there had been too much alcohol consumed and fights ensued. Nobody has been shot or stabbed while walking down a street in town as far as I know.
(A gentle hint: the word that goes with “aiding” is “abetting”. Abating is very different. Look it up!)
BTW - you are really feisty tonight
Oh, when you help a person (you DO help people, don’t you?)you don’t know, do you ask that person whether he/she is a rapist or murderer? Doesn’t sound like a normal thing to do, but maybe YOU do; you know, just to make sure you’re not aiding an abetting. Not all rapists and murderers LOOK like rapists and murderers, so one had better check.
MP Resident, are you implying that the Herndon zip code is just the 4 square mile boundaries?
No, I’m saying that zip code boundaries do not coincide with political boundaries.
In addition to that, according to the USPS there are only two regular (non unique and non PO box) zip codes with Herndon as the actual city name, these are 20170 and 20171. All the others with “Herndon” as the “acceptable” city name have “Reston” as the actual city name.
I should say that zip code boundaries do not usually coincide with political boundaries. There are, of course, cases where they do.
CitizenofManassas…
You are missing my point and I am quickly losing patience with your inability to comprehend the error of your logic… your original statement was that by supporting providing a safe place for these people to find work I am in effect supporting murders and rapists - you still have not proved how that is true.
However, I’ll answer your question by asking you to look at your own family history. I’m going assume for the sake of argument that you are not 100% native american. If I’m wrong feel free to correct me.
If that holds true, then your ancestors were at some point, immigrants. In fact, I’m willing to bet that somewhere in your line there is some point who skirted the laws and got here by whatever means they could. In fact, I’ll go ahead and make the assumption (because it’s true in most cases) that someone in your family is also a criminal.
You see, when it comes right down to it, we’re not all that different than the immigrants you seem to hate so much. We are a nation built on the “American Dream” and the phrase “Bring me your tired, your hungry, your poor…”. These people are just following the path that our own ancestors followed so long ago…
You can argue all you want about how these people are breaking the law by coming into this country… but how can you fault them for that?
Perhaps if the federal government got off their collective asses and did something about the backlog of paperwork for people trying to enter the country legally, or their own government wasn’t so corrupt that they could actually stay in their country (remind you much of the protestants coming to the ‘States to escape religious persecution?) then we could have a simple solution to this situation we as a country find ourselves in.
Until then, people like you who spout inflammatory statements that imply all immigrants are rapists and murders are doing nothing to help intelligent discussion on a solution, and serve to compound the problems facing our nation.
“or their own government wasn’t so corrupt that they could actually stay in their country”
In light of that, what do you think about attempts by these corrupt foreign governments to influence the political process here in the USA?
In light of that, what do you think about attempts by these corrupt foreign governments to influence the political process here in the USA?
Every government is going to try to influence the political process in the United States in some way or another - it comes with the territory of being the last ’super power’.
The beauty of our government is that it’s set up in such a way that educated people who participate in the political process on a constant basis can stop these governments efforts in their tracks.
Such a shame the majority of the people doin the bitchin’ are apathetic and don’t show up to vote isn’t it?
Yes, we even had one (who didn’t bother to vote) run for office here.
Yes, we even had one (who didn’t bother to vote) run for office here.
The ultimate hypocrisy. Go figure!
Correctly,
First off I am a Native American, being born here that would make me a Native American, and as far as I know, I do not have any American Indian blood in me. My ancestors came here by ship and had to go through proper immigration channels to do so, that is why I can trace my family tree using Government sources. I hardly think the same can be said of illegals today.
Second off, an illegal alien is not an immigrant. An immigrant is one who follows the law to get here, as opposed to an illegal alien who does not.
Stop trying to compare illegal aliens with those immigrants that were able to follow the law. The fact this Nation has accepted MILLIONS OF IMMIGRANTS just proves it can be done legally.
It is not inflammatory to want to rid the Nation of illegal aliens. Just because you support these criminals, and have made up your mind that no matter what facts are presented to you, you will ignore them, does not make you right in any way shape or form.
I asked you at what point do you consider illegals to cross the line to being a criminal in your opinion. Again, if you help one illegal out, you are in fact providing the incentive for more to come here, and that simply is not acceptable.
So, according to you, if you speak out against illegals, it is not being constructive toward a solution? Wow, just amazing. The problem is that for too long we have put up with illegals, and now we are paying the price.
It is easy to be pissed off at illegals, they come here breaking the law, they continue to break the law once here, and then they do not want to be held accountable for their actions. Yet, they say they just want to be treated like everyone else. Well, like everyone else, if they are caught for their crimes, they should face the punishment. That punishment is deportation.
Why should we respect people who break the law?
Do you feel all criminals should be free of punishment?
Yes, it would be refreshing for those Nations who seem to be so concerned with their Citizens after they have left their Country to show some concern for them before they left. However, they realize it is much easier to do that, then it is to enact economic reforms that will keep people from leaving.
Our Federal Government does need to improve immigration enforcement. However, until that happens, States and local Governments need to pick up the slack.
I believe the person who did not vote and ran for office is a supporter of illegals. Go figure.
So, according to you, if you speak out against illegals, it is not being constructive toward a solution?
You didn’t speak out against illegals though - you made a blanket statement which implied they were all rapists and murders. You keep forgetting that fact!
I said no such thing. I said, they obviously support rapists and murderers walking freely in the streets. How is that saying all illegals are those types of criminals. ANON did not want to take any action against illegals, not even those types of illegals, because, as I posted earlier, if anon did, they would have made a distinction of wanting to just allow the “hard working” otherwise law abiding illegals to be able to use the work center and to live in the Town.
Keep avoiding my questions, though, you do fit in with 99% of the illegal alien supporters who post here.
It is easy to be pissed off at illegals, they come here breaking the law, they continue to break the law once here, and then they do not want to be held accountable for their actions. Yet, they say they just want to be treated like everyone else. Well, like everyone else, if they are caught for their crimes, they should face the punishment. That punishment is deportation.
What about the people who come here legally, establish themselves, and then the government does not process their paperwork in time? The people who’s children are here in schools already, and their visa runs out because they are stuck in all the red tape… should they uproot their entire family and go back to a country where they have no way to support themselves because OUR government can’t get it together?
Not every case is like that, but there are surprisingly more than you think. Not every person who is here illegally came across the boarder illegally to begin with.
And while we’re on the subject of deportation, the federal government is the only branch with the power to deport people - so like I said before, until they do something about it, the state and local governments have their hands tied.
Finally, I’ll say this… as a female in her early twenties who has lived in both Herndon and Manassas, as well as having classes in Annandale and a job in Seven Corners, I have seen the worst of the worst as far as immigration goes. When Herndon opened the Day Labor site, it freed me up to actually goto the 711 and get a drink without wolf whistles… and I could goto my bank without thinking I was going to run someone over.
That still hasn’t happened in Manassas. Driving on 243 I am often fearful of the groups of what seems to be Day Laborers walking around on the side of the road.
So, Herndon, in my mind, attempted to do something that was a win-win situation for the businesses in Herndon which rely on the cheap labor to stay profitiable, and the people who are here until the Feds do something.
That’s called a compromise - something I think we could all strive for in this country on this issue.
ANON did not want to take any action against illegals, not even those types of illegals, because, as I posted earlier, if anon did, they would have made a distinction of wanting to just allow the “hard working” otherwise law abiding illegals to be able to use the work center and to live in the Town.
How exactly did you come to that conclusion from what Anon said?
You know what assuming does right?
Since you drive, I am going to assume you have a driver’s license. Does it have an expiration date? I know mine does, and I make it a point to have ET renewed in time before it expires.
More importantly is making sure a visa does not run out. Many people choose to let them run out. Visas have expiration dates, people are provided that date when they are provided the visa, and therefore should take the time to ensure they renew them on time and take into account the time it would take. Sort of like it is not smart to show up at the DMV on the day your license expires or at the last day of the month and expect to breeze in and out of the DMV in minutes.
Providing a place for illegals to look for jobs is not a compromise at all, it is in fact showing support for their law breaking and in fact takes the responsibility of the Federal Government away, which you seem to not want to do.
The 287g program allows local and State Governments to work in hand with the Federal Government. Of course the Feds are the ones who can deport people, but that does not mean they are the only ones that can do something about illegals.
Yes, I did experience the same thing in Herndon. But, at least you admit illegals are not exactly the politest folks or the most law abiding. I’ll give you credit for that, most supporters of illegals won’t even do that.
Hopefully with the new Country program it will make it less likely that you will have to put up with illegals when you go into the 7-11 on 234.
If Anon does not think that, they need to repost how they truly feel about the issue.
If Anon does not think that, they need to repost how they truly feel about the issue.
I think Anon has probably gone to bed a while ago, much like I should be doing right now…
Yes, I did experience the same thing in Herndon. But, at least you admit illegals are not exactly the politest folks or the most law abiding. I’ll give you credit for that, most supporters of illegals won’t even do that.
Also - I think you are wrong in using the term “polite” here. It’s more of a cultural thing than anything else. They are used to congregrating on the streets looking for employment, hanging out with their family, conversing with neighbors. It’s just what they do here, and in their home country.
For instance, if you’ve ever been to Europe, have you noticed that Europeans don’t form lines at cash registers? And if you are there, and try to - you get weird looks? The same theory applies the next time you’re down in DC and some German tourist cuts in front of you - before you curse at them for being impolite realize they might not know the customs of the country.
And until we spend time educating them and showing the customs of our country - they will never know. The Day Labor site provided that kind of education and training free of charge to them by volunteers so that when they did become a citizen of the country, they would fit into our melting pot.
Finally…
More importantly is making sure a visa does not run out. Many people choose to let them run out. Visas have expiration dates, people are provided that date when they are provided the visa, and therefore should take the time to ensure they renew them on time and take into account the time it would take. Sort of like it is not smart to show up at the DMV on the day your license expires or at the last day of the month and expect to breeze in and out of the DMV in minutes.
Unless you have applied to become a citizen of the United States, or have studied the process extensively, I think a comparison of this type is a bit unfair. The process to become a citizen is no where near as simple as renewing your drivers license and more akin to getting your drivers license after having your learners permit where you have to take behind the wheel…
One point neglected in the above “ping-pong match”:
Illegal entry into the U.S. is a CIVIL misdemeanor, according to the law.
CRIMINAL felony offenses are clearly spelled out and those who commit criminal felony offenses deserve serious punishment. And, if the offenders entered the country illegally, then they are subject to deportation.
Oh, but I forgot some folks refuse to accept that there are many laws, not just ONE “rule of law” . . . and there are gradations of offense . . . that things can be more or less important.
Rapists and murderers, all serious offenders and anyone convicted of DUI – lock ’em up and if illegal aliens, no bail and deport.
Does that make me “pro-illegals”?
That day laborer site did little more than act like a magnet for illegal aliens who heard from their compatriots that not only could they find work in Herndon, but that there was a complete support structure of well-meaning fools that would provide them with all manner of support, and fostered an environment that created a ready supply of illegal boarding houses that they could cram themselves into.
The neighborhood in the environs of the “official day laborer center” was turned into a suburban slum, drunken illegal aliens killed residents in motor vehicle accidents, and these impacts resulted in an unprecedented wave of public opposition. The day laborer center was a disaster.
Educating illegal aliens is a waste of time, effort, and the public funds that would inevitably be used to fund such an effort. Effective enforcement of the law, which discourages these lawbreakers from unlawfully residing here and turning our communities into replicas of the third-world nations the illegal aliens came from is the only proven method of restoring a community that is assaulted in this manner. We might as well try to relive poverty among illegal aliens by giving them taxpayer-funded subsidies, while ignoring that such behavior will do nothing but encourage more of them to come.
RE CULTURAL PATTERNS:
How many folks have noticed how native and long-term Americans hang out in BACKyards on decks etc and find it extremely important to have privacy fences. That’s the way this culture has evolved.
In many Spanish-speaking countries, the tendency is to socialize in a community meeting place — a plaza or similar. And here, the way our neighborhoods a built, there is no plaza so people from “plaza-countries” tend to hang out in public spaces, in FRONT yards where they live, etc.
Similarly, most “natives” jump in the car to drive two blocks to the store, while many “immigrants”—legal AND illegal—might be more likely to WALK, or ride a bike. Oh, my!
Oh, yeah, and you mean to tell me that a bunch of white boys,
or any shade of native-born guys never whistle at girls going by?
Just a little culture-observation.
“For instance, if you’ve ever been to Europe, have you noticed that Europeans don’t form lines at cash registers?”
Which Europeans? Germans sure do form lines at cash registers.
Great idea. Let’s entirely change our culture in order to accommodate the desires of illegal aliens so their unlawful existence here can be more comfortable and familiar.
You’ve got to be kidding me.
If you’re referring to where or how people hang out to socialize — or who is more likely to ride bikes or walk and or drive cars — heck no, I’m not suggesting we change our culture to accommodate illegal aliens.
I was referring to ONE type of behavior that is not unique to illegal aliens, but also to folks from some of the Spanish-speaking countries who are here LEGALLY.
After all, the problem isn’t about legal immigrants or “all immigrants,” right?
jfk said :
“Hurrah for folks who put a stop to the degredation of their home caused by overcrowding and lawless behavior. Let’s hope that the big money being trucked in to help unseat them goes for naught, and all get re-elected.”
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
You should say “Hurrah for PREVIOUS Councils, too!”
The current Council has done well to FOLLOW THROUGH and USE the tools and enforcement put in place BY PRIOR COUNCILS.
They did not add or strengthen ordinances or add staff to enable overcrowding enforcement –
they DID make a lot of noise and scared enough people to elect them.
It was TOWN COUNCIL(S)’ HARD WORK in 2002-2003-2004-2005-2006 to enact ordinances increasing neighborhood protections, establish the NRC, define “families” and hire zoning enforcement personnel.
THIS COUNCIL borrowed 3 staff people from other departments–short term, so they can SAY they increased staffing.
Taking credit for the work of previous councils
is not a huge achievement to be proud of.
Sadly, fear-mongerers promote the idea that the current council has DONE these things entirely on it’s own — but they’ve only done what had already been established. BIG DEAL!
It woulda happened and enforcement had begun to increase already
Radical factions who want to cleanse our land of illegal aliens get so wrapped up in that self-righteous crusade that they see little else and claim all manner of ridiculous things.
Also sadly, people who fall for the extreme claims and are one-issue voters will vote for the so-called “enforcers” again unless they learn more.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
BIG MONEY? in Herndon? Yikes! WHAT MONEY?
It is great fun to rattle off crap without substantiation. Again, I ask: Sources? But that may be a futile question.
G’night
Level,
As I said it is even more important for Visa holders to get in early to avoid issues.
Though, I hardly doubt the boys hanging out in the parking lot, looking for jobs are visa holders. They are looking to work(against the law) while being here illegally, and not paying taxes(against the law). Right there are two additional laws they have broken.
So, it is a culture thing to come here breaking the law, once here to continue to break the law, and then to ignore or expect laws to be changed, rather then to adopt to the Country they are in.
The only fear mongers are those who support illegals, who spread alll sorts of lies regarding the program started by PW County.
Level Headed
Let me remind you that Herndon has one of highest latino gang concentration in Northern Virginia and only Maryland can rival you. It was your area’s horrid machete attacks and gang presence which made the news long before the illegal alien problem became so relevant in PWC. But this hilarious sparring match in which you, I suppose a Herndon town member, are trying to to paint Manassas as humanity’s rear end really makes me laugh, considering the ruinous deterioration your town has suffered at the hand of illegals. If you think that your geographical location makes you superior, please hide in the bathroom, and quick! Herndon was always the place where less affluent and less educated people ended up when they could not afford Vienna or Fairfax! You can consult census data for verification if you please.
In addition, your defence of multiculturalism at all costs and hospitability to all but the most heinous of illegals ( and, seemingly even those) is not shared by your own compadres who apparently have not only shut down the pissoir which was your labor center but has managed to oust the government members who had allowed such unpopular policies.
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 12:17 am:
Unless you have applied to become a citizen of the United States, or have studied the process extensively, I think a comparison of this type is a bit unfair. The process to become a citizen is no where near as simple as renewing your drivers license and more akin to getting your drivers license after having your learners permit where you have to take behind the wheel………………………….
That the citizenship process is so complex is all the more reason to take offense with those who, for whatever reason, feel they are entitled to circumvent the laws and people like you should help them do so.
I find it especially disquieting when I read of legal residents proudly proclaiming they assist illegal aliens in finding jobs – in violation of National and Virginia Employment Laws.
Demanding others do the same compromises American Mom & Pop businesses (and their employees) that cannot complete because they play by the rules. A very real concern you have overlooked is that these Mom & Pop business owners and their employees have families to feed too, but they are not eligible for the numerous benefits and services offered freely to illegal aliens – often with no verifiable documentation required.
The message you are sending is “do NOT play by the rules – no matter how many lives are adversely affected.
Ooops - cleared my internet Cookies and Files and forgot to sign in. Sorry Anon (even though no one believes you would ever write something like this).
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 12:17 am:
Unless you have applied to become a citizen of the United States, or have studied the process extensively, I think a comparison of this type is a bit unfair. The process to become a citizen is no where near as simple as renewing your drivers license and more akin to getting your drivers license after having your learners permit where you have to take behind the wheel………………………….
That the citizenship process is so complex is all the more reason to take offense with those who, for whatever reason, feel they are entitled to circumvent the laws and people like you should help them do so.
I find it especially disquieting when I read of legal residents proudly proclaiming they assist illegal aliens in finding jobs – in violation of National and Virginia Employment Laws.
Demanding others do the same compromises American Mom & Pop businesses (and their employees) that cannot complete because they play by the rules. A very real concern you have overlooked is that these Mom & Pop business owners and their employees have families to feed too, but they are not eligible for the numerous benefits and services offered freely to illegal aliens – often with no verifiable documentation required.
The message you are sending is “do NOT play by the rules – no matter how many lives are adversely affected.
The only fear mongers are those who support illegals, who spread alll sorts of lies regarding the program started by PW County.
Have I said anything regarding the programs in PW County? I don’t believe I have. What I do believe, is while I applaud them for their efforts, the majority of the efforts that have been set forth don’t pass a constitutional test and will be overturned eventually by the courts. But that’s neither here nor there, it was good of them to try.
(In contrast, I am in awe of the Community Policing programs your police department has put forth in the past 10 or so years - they are a wonder of local police and community working together to form a better community. You should be proud.)
Demanding others do the same compromises American Mom & Pop businesses (and their employees) that cannot complete because they play by the rules. A very real concern you have overlooked is that these Mom & Pop business owners and their employees have families to feed too, but they are not eligible for the numerous benefits and services offered freely to illegal aliens – often with no verifiable documentation required.
You definitely picked the wrong topic to attack the presence of them on. The fall of the mom and pop type business can definitely be placed on the shoulders of big corporations, such as Walmart, Kmart and Target. Not on illegals.
In fact, I would suggest that without the illegals, the remaining mom and pop businesses would probably cease to exist. Look at the restaurant business as an example. Do you think that any mom and pop type restaurant can afford to pay some entitled 16 year old twit to wash dishes? Scrub pans? Sweep the floor and clean the kitchen? These businesses in fact rely on the illegal’s to be here in order to keep their business in the green. Or how about the small construction business? Doing yard work? Building fences and porches in the rain/snow/sun? Do you think your spoiled sixteen year old will work for minimum wage (or below as these people sometimes do) for in some cases, over 8 an hours a day, in order to complete the work? No - they won’t.
Let me remind you that Herndon has one of highest latino gang concentration in Northern Virginia and only Maryland can rival you. It was your area’s horrid machete attacks and gang presence which made the news long before the illegal alien problem became so relevant in PWC.
I am sorry to say that you are misinformed on this one, and should perhaps check your facts instead of believing and then posting as the truth what others have told you. The Northern Virginia machete attacks actually happened in Falls Church. ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/17/AR2005081701856.html ) In addition, the highest concentration of gang members in the area has been, and continues to be, in Falls Church/Seven Corners/Bailey’s Xroads.
Herndon was always the place where less affluent and less educated people ended up when they could not afford Vienna or Fairfax! You can consult census data for verification if you please.
Herndon and Manassas are not so different in that respect, are they? The only difference being right now Herndon has that tech corridor thing going on… how about Manassas?
By the way, I am not a Herndon resident now - I actually live in Ashburn. I am just informed on most of the local politics in the area because that’s what good citizens of the United States do.
That day laborer site did little more than act like a magnet for illegal aliens who heard from their compatriots that not only could they find work in Herndon
Really? I thought they were already here because of all the hotels, restaurants and development that would provide them work in the area. Silly me!
Level-headed Herndon Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 2:57 am:
The current Council has done well to FOLLOW THROUGH and USE the tools and enforcement put in place BY PRIOR COUNCILS.
They did not add or strengthen ordinances or add staff to enable overcrowding enforcement –
they DID make a lot of noise and scared enough people to elect them.
It was TOWN COUNCIL(S)’ HARD WORK in 2002-2003-2004-2005-2006 to enact ordinances increasing neighborhood protections, establish the NRC, define “families” and hire zoning enforcement personnel.
THIS COUNCIL borrowed 3 staff people from other departments–short term, so they can SAY they increased staffing.
Taking credit for the work of previous councils
is not a huge achievement to be proud of.
Sorry, but this sounds like good government to me. You have a group that 1) enforced the laws already on the books; 2) worked within their means to not increase spending or bloat the city payroll and 3) involved other agencies in the process to gain efficiencies. I wish we had such a group in Manassas!
Your slur against Manassas earlier is sad. Too bad you have to sink to this level. Folks can disagree without being disagreable. Hopefully, time and maturity will help you to understand that.
“By the way, I am not a Herndon resident now - I actually live in Ashburn. I am just informed on most of the local politics in the area because that’s what good citizens of the United States do.”
hehe… I’m sure current Herndon residents absolutely love you speaking for them. You may have to expand your potential abode areas to include those on the other side of the Potomac. That’s where the gravy train is heading. All aboard!
“Herndon has that tech corridor thing going on”
Those companies may have a Herndon zip code but most are not in the town limits.
Those companies may have a Herndon zip code but most are not in the town limits.
Your point is…?
I’m sure current Herndon residents absolutely love you speaking for them. You may have to expand your potential abode areas to include those on the other side of the Potomac.
Ah, one of those. Let me explain - although I do not live in Herndon, I do the majority of my business in Herndon. I eat at Tortilla Factory at least twice a month, I goto Friday Night Live every Friday in the summer, Jimmy’s Old Town Tavern is my favorite bar. On lunch breaks from my company (in Sterling) I goto play pool at Hard Times in the KMart shopping center because it’s free if you buy $8 worth of food.
Just because I don’t live within the towns boarders doesn’t mean my money isn’t spent there, or utilized by the town. Therefore, I have a vested interest in the politics of the area I like to play, even if I rest my head somewhere else.
Because you don’t reside within the Herndon town borders, and occasionally spend your money at town establishments hardly give you credence to presume you have a “vested interest.”
(as an FYI - Boarders are the ones who overcrowded single family homes and trashed the neighborhoods - emphasis on past tense)
“A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 8:47 am:
That day laborer site did little more than act like a magnet for illegal aliens who heard from their compatriots that not only could they find work in Herndon
Really? I thought they were already here because of all the hotels, restaurants and development that would provide them work in the area. Silly me! ”
Quite silly actually when you consider that Mayor O’Reilly’s pet project was a neon sign to illegal aliens that, with the opening of the day labor center, Herndon became an official safe haven.
Fortunately other communities within Northern VA were more “aware of their surroundings” than you. For this reason, there are NO tax funded day labor centers ANY WHERE in Fairfax County, despite $500,000 allocated in the Fairfax County Budget.
Simply because YOU feel you are “correctly informed” does not necessarily make it so.
Based on the tone of your posts, can we presume we won’t see you at Connie’s fund raiser tomorrow?
What: Meet & Greet fundraiser for Connie Hutchinson
When: Saturday, April 5th from 1 to 2 PM
Where: So Addictive Internet Cafe (corder of Elden and Spring Streets)
Connie’s website: www.connieforcouncil.com
Greg L. - Referring to my comment of 3 April @ 5:47 pm:
Have you found the sources of your statements regarding the funding of Harlon Reece’s campaign?
Have you decided yet what’s “normal” when it comes to the spending you say Nachman is planning? How do you know what’s “normal”?
An inquiring mind wants to know.
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 9:41 am:
“Ah, one of those. Let me explain - although I do not live in Herndon, I do the majority of my business in Herndon. I eat at Tortilla Factory at least twice a month, I goto Friday Night Live every Friday in the summer, Jimmy’s Old Town Tavern is my favorite bar. On lunch breaks from my company (in Sterling) I goto play pool at Hard Times in the KMart shopping center because it’s free if you buy $8 worth of food.”
Just wanted to reemphasize your point to strenghten my point.
Correctly Informed: Are you an illegal alien supporter?
You sure put a lot of effort into your overly long posts. Is that the Ashburn near Richmond? Does Ashburn have illegal aliens running amok? If so, a Help Save Ashburn chapter would be in order.
Quite silly actually when you consider that Mayor O’Reilly’s pet project was a neon sign to illegal aliens that, with the opening of the day labor center, Herndon became an official safe haven.
Mike O’Reilly was doing something with a bad situation. In fact, if I remember correctly, Mike ran on the premisis of doing something about the situation in downtown Herndon, especially by the 7/11, Apple FCU and Wachovia/First Union. He was elected based on that platform. Then he actually did what he promised, and was subsequently forced out of office.
For this reason, there are NO tax funded day labor centers ANY WHERE in Fairfax County, despite $500,000 allocated in the Fairfax County Budget.
Perhaps that has more to do with the fact that there are no organizations in other areas willing to work with the government and create a solution to a problem like Hope and Harmony was. If there was, I assume the same Fairfax County government that alloted funds to Herndon probably would have been amicable to awarding them funds for a similar solution. (Provided it followed the constitutional guidelines set forth for such endeavors.)
Because you don’t reside within the Herndon town borders, and occasionally spend your money at town establishments hardly give you credence to presume you have a “vested interest.”
I’m going to go ahead and assume from your moniker here that you are a Reston resident - so going by your logic, why would you be attending Connie Hutchinson’s event at So Addictive?
Are you an illegal alien supporter?
No, I am someone who strives for a compromise in situation where there seems to be no winning.
You sure put a lot of effort into your overly long posts.
Perhaps that is because I am somewhat educated and passionate about this issue?
Is that the Ashburn near Richmond?
Going back to the educated thing, Ashburn is an area of Loudoun County which is according to google maps 10 miles from downtown Herndon and 23 miles from Manassas. Perhaps you should brush up on the surrounding areas before you fly off at the keyboard?
Does Ashburn have illegal aliens running amok? If so, a Help Save Ashburn chapter would be in order.
Ashburn has a bunch of people who sit on their porches and speak out against illegal immigration while they pay the companies who hire illegals to mow their laws and tend to their gardens.
A Correctly Informed Resident, — My “spoiled 16 year old son or entitled 16 year old twit” would love to have one of those minimum wage jobs you say only illegals will do. Total Nonsense!
It is just another weak excuse trying to justify why illegals are living illegally in the United States! Now it is because of our children? There is absolutely no excuse as to why illegals have been sneaking across the border — they think laws don’t apply to them!! Why wait for a visa when there are jobs that spoiled 16 years won’t do and they, the poor misunderstood illegals will.
Hmmm, throw in the school programs for their many children — yes, free and subsidized lunch programs, extra teachers and assistants (that unsuspecting taxpayers are paying for) to translate and teach English, Math, History, etc. Add in free and subsidized medical — go to any emergency room in the afternoon and evening and you will see; plus total overcrowding of housing and utilities that is ruining neighborhoods; and wait, those free food vouchers every month — something most middle-class AMERICANS could dearly use — WOW, Americans are getting quite a bargain! Most didn’t know they would be paying for all these poor misunderstood illegals with their tax money.
I tell you what, send them all home and I will “make” my 16 year old work one of those jobs! Sounds like a deal to me!
American,
I agree with you, something needs to be done about the free health care and free education that these residents get. No argument there. But how about this one.
I have a friend who is currently based in North Carolina. He has two masters degrees and currently works as a high school teacher. He loves his job, and he loves this country.
He is from Columbia.
The high school he works at can not sponsor his visa, and his paperwork has been held up so long in the federal government that unless he finds a wife within the next two months - he will be facing deportation even though he has been living in the United States for over 10 years.
Now, if someone with two masters degrees who works as a teacher (and I don’t think any of you will argue that being a teacher is a noble profession where more are needed) can not get his paperwork through the government in time to keep him here legally - how is someone who barely speaks the language and is uneducated supposed to do so?
Perhaps instead of sitting here flambeing the local government for how they chose to handle a situation that the feds created we organize our efforts to get the federal government to tighten the boarders, and make it so that people who want to come here legally and become hard working, tax paying members of our society can do so.
“we organize our efforts to get the federal government to tighten the boarders, and make it so that people who want to come here legally and become hard working, tax paying members of our society can do so.”
A Correctly Informed Resident, I can agree on that. Yes, there are some educated, employed, and productive non-citizens living in the United States for long periods of time that should have some type of assistance to help them stay. Most, however, are not. They are a drain on our country and economy and need to be sent home. The United States can’t possibly be the “answer” for every uneducated and unskilled person in the world. Most wouldn’t come if they had to apply for a visa, wait and enter legally and then can look for a job. AND, pay their way like every American has to. Do away with all the FREE programs and they won’t come!
“Your point is…?”
The elected officials of the Town of Herndon had nothing to do with those businesses choosing to locate in Fairfax County.
Do away with all the FREE programs and they won’t come!
We seem to be caught in a catch 22 though, and I’m sure you’ll agree. Until the Federal government changes the law, towns like ours (Manassas and Herndon) are left to deal with the fall out of this entire situation.
For instance, with the Day Labor center - Mike O’Reilly and the town council were trying to make the best of a bad situation. There was overcrowding, loitering, and general eye-sore in the town. Unfortunately, legally, we had a couple road blocks:
First, anti-loitering laws are illegal. They are unconstitutional, and that has been upheld many times. No wiggle room there unless the town wants to pay the big bucks for a big lawsuit they’d probably lose.
Now, the town can put together an anti-solicitation ordinance. Sounds like a good idea right? But wait, the only way they can do that without facing a big fat lawsuit from various groups is if they have a place where people can solicit work. That’s cool, we’ll open a day labor center so we can do that…
But then the law also said… “Oh, but hold on Herndon, your day labor center? It can’t ask for papers proving the people there are legal citizens. The people hiring them can (and are in fact by law required to) but YOU can’t! Sorry, deal with it.”
So Herndon tried to deal with it - and somehow the town council got the label of being “illegal friendly” when they were just trying to make the town a better place and deal with a crappy situation.
Prince William and Manassas has tried to deal with it in a different way, and are probably going to face massive lawsuits from groups who are TRULY illegal immigrant supporters. I’m going to be really interested in seeing how that turns out, and which programs get overturned, which stick.
The only difference between PWC and Herndon is that Herndon tried to work within the confines of current Federal and State law while PWC said, “To hell with it, we’re gonna do what the people want, and then fight it out in court!”
I hope PWC succeeds and makes some progress in the court system and forces the federal and state government to deal with the situation.
I’m curious as to what Federal and State laws you believe PWC is violating.
Why is it that unemployment is going up, construction jobs way way down but there are still a 1000 Mexicans a day trying to sneak into America???
It’s not about jobs. It’s about life in America - which has a much higher living standard. A living standard caused by a lot of highly educated and highly paid workers.
That living standard will fall if we let the flood of illegals continue.
Don’t believe me. Well….look at Mexico.
Why is their standard of living well below ours?
Think about it!
The US can only absorb so many poor, uneducated workers before it brings the whole system down.
Before we are similar to Mexico in quality of life.
Think about it.
Correctly Informed: You got me–I goofed. I was thinking of Ashland, the home of the Smoky Pig BBQ.
The thing I just can’t comprehend is you desire to “compromise”. I don’t compromise with illegal aliens.
Becky: Why do they continue to sneak in? Because Mexico and Central America are cesspools. The illegals are trying to turn the US into an environment they’re more familiar with–corruption, poverty and filth.
It’s the uneducated lumpenproletariat that sneak into our country. Very convenient for the ruling classes of these countries. They get rid of their losers AND remittances fill their coffers!
A Corectly Informed: Since you are somewhat educated, may I remind you of something? Parsimony.
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 10:36 am:
“Mike O’Reilly was doing something with a bad situation. In fact, if I remember correctly, Mike ran on the premisi of doing something about the situation in downtown Herndon, especially by the 7/11, Apple FCU and Wachovia/First Union. He was elected based on that platform. Then he actually did what he promised, and was subsequently forced out of office………………”
Mike O’Reilly’s $175,000 Elden Street Clean Up could have easily been resolved by doing the same thing PWC is doing right now. Don’t deceive yourself by thinking that Mike didn’t have his own agenda – and it had nothing to do with Herndon. The voters knew this and that is why he was subsequently forced out of office. .
“I’m going to go ahead and assume from your moniker here that you are a Reston resident - so going by your logic, why would you be attending Connie Hutchinson’s event at So Addictive? …………………
I’m one of those folks with a Herndon zip code - call it neighborly. Or, you can open your eyes and see Reston abuts Herndon; what happens in Herndon affects Reston. Its my civic obligation to help those financially who are working to help me.
As for your Columbian friend - 10 years and 2 Masters degrees and he’s still clueless as to how to secure and/or extend his work visa? For someone who loves teaching so much, one would have to ask why he turned his back on his own people - who obviously and desperately need teachers with his qualifications. Something is not quite right with this picture - but then your friend isn’t much different than the others who are of questionable status - they have a sense of misplaced entitlement that you’ve bought in to.
what happens in Herndon affects Reston.
Are you suggesting by that comment that what happens in Herndon doesn’t effect Sterling / Ashburn too? Because I assure you - it does.
Something is not quite right with this picture - but then your friend isn’t much different than the others who are of questionable status - they have a sense of misplaced entitlement that you’ve bought in to.
You’re right, something is not quite right with this picture, and it’s the fact that the wheels of government move very slowly with no hope for those who are trying to stay legally. I find it disturbing that you would so easily sling names and make moral judgments at/for those you don’t know and only have a snippet of their situation. Also - I’m pretty sure someone such as yourself has never applied for residency in the United States and probably don’t understand the process to begin with. Once you’re paperwork is turned it - it’s a waiting game.
Yes, he could quit his job teaching and get a job in the private sector where he would be sponsored in order to stay in the states. He could get married to an American born woman to stay in the states. There are a variety of things he COULD do, by why should he have to do them when he is a member of society which is doing great works in the city which he lives? Because the federal government can’t get off their asses to hire people to push through the amount of paperwork that comes in on people trying to get citizenship.
It seems the government is making some sort of progress if you read the press releases from USCIS regarding it - but I’m not so sure I believe them. I know too many people at my company, and my friends companies, and from college, that are having problems with getting their citizenship to agree with the fact that they average 13 - 15 months to be naturalized.
Finally your sense of entitlement is perhaps the most disgusting sort. It’s nothing but localized racism disguised as concern for the nation. You say the exact same thing that was said about the Jewish, the Japanese/Asians and Irish when they migrated here in mass numbers. They didn’t collapse the nation, and if the United States as a whole realized that the only thing differentiating these immigrants from those is the fact that the Mexican’s and Hispanics in general can WALK across the boarder (where as other groups had to stowe away on boats or fly) and react appropriately (boarder control) then there would be no problem at all.
Also, for all your complaining about the Hispanics and illegals using up “our” services, I would hope you all would hold American citizens to the same standards, and you would be against generational welfare and the resources that our own citizens drain from us…
After all, how can you complain about the people who by own your admission are uneducated and are a drain because they don’t know better, when our own citizens are doing the exact same thing and we fully support them?
The difference between citizens obtaining taxpayer-funded benefits and illegal aliens obtaining taxpayer-funded benefits is that citizens are legally entitled to those services and it is against Virginia law to provide these services to illegal aliens.
Not to mention that the idea of providing public support to those who break the law, which only encourages further lawbreaking, is utterly outrageous.
Not to mention that the idea of providing public support to those who break the law, which only encourages further lawbreaking, is utterly outrageous.
You realize that our entire prison system is designed so that tax payers PAY to support people when they break the law, in every way possible… correct?
Reply to Citizen of Manassas comment of 3 April @ 7:36 pm re “rapists and murderers being able to run free in Herndon”.
Statistics fr Herndon Police department are:
During the past 10 years, 1998 - present, the department has investigated 7 (seven) homicide cases (9 victims). One case was deemed justifiable (self defense) and one from 2000 claimed 3 victims.
I didn’t ask about rapes. Figured you should do it yourself, if you’re interested.
And, you’re welcome!
Also, you guys fail to realize that these people DO pay taxes. You seem to think they are magically exempt from sales taxes, sin taxes, and gas taxes.
With the small amount these people do pull in, do you *really* think they would be paying that much into the federal and state tax system anyway?
I suggest you look here (pops) so that you can learn about their buying power and how much they stand to spend in an economy where most American citizens have over extended themselves to the point where they can not spend as they once did.
Interesting factoids for you to chew on include:
“Over the nineteen-year period, 1990-2009, the nation’s Hispanic buying power will grow at a dynamic compound annual rate of 8.2 percent. (The comparable rate of growth for non-Hispanics is 4.9 percent.) In sheer dollar power, Hispanics’ economic clout will rise from $222 billion in 1990, to $504 billion in 2000, to $686 billion in 2004, and to $992 billion in 2009.”
“The most recent Consumer Expenditure Survey indicates that Hispanic consumers spent in total only about 84 percent as much as the average non-Hispanic consumer and spent a much higher proportion of their income on goods and services—95.2 percent for Hispanics versus 85.9 percent for non-Hispanics.”
“Despite their lower average income levels, Hispanic households spent more on groceries, footwear, men’s and boys clothing, children’s clothing, gasoline and motor oil, and household textiles. Compared to the non-Hispanic population, Hispanics spent about the same proportion of their total outlays on restaurants, alcoholic beverages, housekeeping supplies, furniture, appliances, women’s and girls’ clothing, public transportation, and personal care products and services.”
“Correctly informed”, there’s tremendous a difference between effectively administering a justice system that upholds the rule of law, and gutting that rule of law by encouraging foreign nationals to violate our immigration laws so they can receive taxpayer-funded benefits. Our justice system is designed to deter lawlessness, you seem to want to encourage it.
Our justice system is designed to deter lawlessness, you seem to want to encourage it.
If you really want to get into it I could give you a long tirade about how our current jail system does nothing but propagate crime and is not an actual deterrence, but I digress…
I do not seek to encourage lawlessness, and no where in any of my postings have I said that. If you can point out where I have, you can correct me.
I have simply said that there needs to be some sort of compromise given the economic realities in our nation right now. Simply shipping them all back where they came from is not a viable solution.
You come up with a better one than tightened border control and amnesty for the ones who are already here, thus allowing our government to tax their earnings, and I’m all ears….
It is also a fact that these illegals are sending their wages home to support families left behind. They are not, for the most part, spending much in the United States. Turning apartments and houses into dormitories with every spare inch used for sleeping is a good example.
It is also a fact that many of our prisoners are illegals who are being fully supported by American taxpayers.
Illegals have absolutely no say as to how the United States “wants” to take care of it’s citizens. The arrogance and entitlement of “illegals” is beyond amazement. These hardworking illegals should return to their own countries and fix them.
Correctly Informed, I thought you were going to offer a legitimate source for your hispanic buying power — HispanicTrending is hardly such a source — purely propaganda — offer some U.S. Government statistics. There is absolutely no way hispanics are outspending American citizens. Now if you are saying they are spending more at Wal-Mart while the average U.S. citizen is covering their free medical, housing subsidies, and free food and school programs, then just maybe.
I thought you were going to offer a legitimate source for your hispanic buying power — HispanicTrending is hardly such a source — purely propaganda — offer some U.S. Government statistics.
Perhaps you should read a little farther into the article than just the title, and you would see the actual study was conducted by the Selig Center at UGA.
Here is their link: http://www.selig.uga.edu/
And here is the link to the actual report: http://www.myjaxchamber.com/upload/Multicult_Econ_2009.pdf
Because careful, it’s a PDF and I know sometimes those tend to freeze browsers.
Selig is hardly a propaganda machine.
A lot of this seems like classic misunderstandings and overreactions to things that aren’t going to kill us, since they never have in the past. Most of us of European descent didn’t have ancestors who had to resort to illegal immigration for one simple reason: there was no such thing. If you made it here, you were an American. When the Irish got off the boats, they faced angry mobs, army recruiters and political operatives looking to take advantage of them, but it was recognized that just the act of coming here was not illegal. Also, consider the wet-foot/dry-foot rules for Cubans. If a Cuban makes it here, they’re almost guaranteed citizenship with asylum. I’m not a Herndon, Manassas or Reston resident. I live in Alexandria, specifically Route 1 corridor/Hybla Valley. Are there illegal immigrants around? Probably, but I don’t check IDs. Have I had problems with some crime in my neighborhood? Yes. The ethnicity of those guys? Caucasian. I note we’re talking about Hispanic illegal immigrants, but China, Ireland (still), and former Soviet Bloc countries contribute millions of illegal immigrants every year, but there is little noise made about them.
When America allowed immigration, we grew. We adapted, we innovated and became the envy of all nations. We recognized that together we were stronger than we were separately. And while there does need to be some kind of tracking for immigrants, why can’t it be large tables at the border processing people? We have non-citizens serving in the armed forces, and that’s a problem. They’re fighting for rights so many here would deny them. There are many people here who because of nationality have a harder time getting citizenship. A co-worker of Pakistani origin who had been here, legally, for 20 years had to fight for five years to get citizenship, even to the point of having to call his senator for help. The processing system is broken and re-examining why we so keen on kicking people wouldn’t be such a bad idea. Criminals, terrorists, violent offenders should be considered a problem, but if a person is labeled a terrorist in their home country because they’re fighting for American ideals, we used to give them funding. Often followed by a plane ride State side.
We’re all immigrants, we all had bad histories in this country and we’re all wealthy enough to have internet service. Now, lot of other people want that chance and while we would give them success, we should be willing to give them that chance.
Midnight
So, illegals do not kill? Funny over half the murderers last year in Prince William County were illegals.
There is no comparison to illegals today and the immigrants of 100 years ago. Those were put through a process, health checked, etc. They were not considered Americans just by getting off the boat.
The Cuban situation again has nothing to do with illegals. I agree all should be sent back.
People born in America are not immigrants.
Of course we have illegals from many different Countries, but you supporters of illegals only want to talk about hispanics that happen to be illegal. Has the COMPOST or any other MSM outlet focused on anything but hispanics that happen to be illegal? I don’t think so. That is the fault of the illegal alien supporters for the stereotype of all illegals are hispanic.
We should give anything to people who are criminals, do not respect the rule of law and spit on the tradition of this Nation.
“informed”
At what point would you not consider amnesty for certain illegals? Would you grant amnesty to rapists? Murderers? Those that have stolen identities?
Illegals make up less then 5% of the work force, I hardly think they are a vital part of the economy.
“Correctly”
I suppose when illegals are not paying taxes, they most likely have spending money. When illegals are overcrowding homes, I suppose they have money to spend.
But the same can be said of everyone who engages in such criminal activity.
However, if you are trying to say illegals are an economic plus to the Nation, you are plain wrong.
Given the high number of illegals that have lost their homes, I say they are just as much if not more so to have overextended.
Citizen,
I have gone through great pains to provide reputable sources for my facts. Please do the same, because until you do, I’m going to consider you someone who hears something on the street and repeats it as the gospel truth online. This does nothing but perpetuates misinformation of the uneducated masses, who clamor for a solution when they know nothing about the reality of the situation.
“Correctly”
You do realize people who are in jail are paying a price for their criminal activity. How is picking up the tab for illegals at hospitals, paying more for insurance, and paying more in local taxes because illegals are not paying their fair share, making illegals pay a price for their law breaking?
CitizenofManassas
So, illegals do not kill? Funny over half the murderers last year in Prince William County were illegals.
Which means half were done by people who have lived here all their lives. And I never said they never kill. Stop putting words in people’s mouths, it’s not nice. Also, do you have a reference for this, I tried looking it up myself but came up short.
There is no comparison to illegals today and the immigrants of 100 years ago. Those were put through a process, health checked, etc. They were not considered Americans just by getting off the boat.
Read history better. A lot of them weren’t, even most of them weren’t. It wasn’t Ellis Island for everyone. My family came through Boston, New Jersey as well as New York. Hell, a lot of people came across the Canadian border. Before there were such rigorous checks for health and quarantine. Even at Ellis Island (and other places), if they got off the boat, they were Americans with all attending rights and privileges. (see Thomas Gallagher’s “Paddy’s Lament” among many other fine sources.)
The Cuban situation again has nothing to do with illegals. I agree all should be sent back.
People born in America are not immigrants.
Well, at what point do they stop? If immigrants have children here, are those children legal? Are their children? We’re all the children of immigrants and it is a part of who we are and a noble part of this history of this country. The first country who citizens all volunteered for it not on basis of noble birth, but on noble ideals like Freedom, Justice and Liberty. You know, the things we all talk about on the 4th of July. The Cuban situation does have some influence and comment on the immigration situation in general. After all, under the law, which you claim to hold dearer than any of us, if every illegal immigrant came through Cuba and made it dry foot, they’d be legal.
Of course we have illegals from many different Countries, but you supporters of illegals only want to talk about hispanics that happen to be illegal. Has the COMPOST or any other MSM outlet focused on anything but hispanics that happen to be illegal? I don’t think so. That is the fault of the illegal alien supporters for the stereotype of all illegals are hispanic.
Ok, I’m gonna ask nicely. PLEASE stop projecting arguments on to me. Most media outlets only focus on illegal Hispanics because that’s what people expect. After all, when people talk about day labor sites, few consider there are workers who are legal just without a steady company. I worked like that in home remodeling myself when I was younger.
We should give anything to people who are criminals, do not respect the rule of law and spit on the tradition of this Nation.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume you meant we should NOT give anything. . . And I sure hope you’ve never given money to anyone who has sped since after, they’re not showing respect for laws. Or anyone who has cheated on taxes. Or anyone who hasn’t gotten car inspections on time. And what is the tradition of this nation other than “hey, you wanna come here and work, come on over”? Some radical people had the theory all of us were created equal with certain inalienable rights, not that only Americans had rights and everyone else could take a flying leap. The tradition of this nation has been nobody is given anything, but everyone has a chance to work and grab for it.
You do realize people who are in jail are paying a price for their criminal activity. How is picking up the tab for illegals at hospitals, paying more for insurance, and paying more in local taxes because illegals are not paying their fair share, making illegals pay a price for their law breaking?
I suggest you read this recent study conducted by The Udall Center for Studies in Public Policy, at the University of Arizona.
It is one of the only studies out which weights how much immigrants of legal, and non-legal status as well the costs. The results will probably surprise you because they found that (in Arizona at least) immigrants contributed more to the economy then their overall cost.
It’s also interesting to note a few other things that haven’t been mentioned, such as this from Shikha Dalmia at the Reason Foundation:
Until a full-scale study on the United States has been done regarding the benefits that illegal immigrants receive vs what they put in, I’m going to reserve my judgement.
“Finally your sense of entitlement is perhaps the most disgusting sort.”
Quite the contrary Incorrectly Informed. If it were not for entitlements, illegal aliens could not survive and would have returned home long ago.
It is the apologists such as you who are bogging down the system and making it difficult for people like your Columbian friend to achive his ultimate goal of legal status.
Because you and yours have pushed illegal aliens to EXPECT tax funded benefits and services entitlements (to which they were never entitled), rather than carry their own weight, you have only yourself to blame for the outcome.
This is what happens when you stick you nose in where it doesn’t belong, while thumbing your nose at the law - YOU created the feelings of animosity against illegal aliens Incorrectly Informed because it’s people like you who made them the liars, cheats and thieves they are.
junes_Reston,
What do you know, and I thought the entire time I was just following the words our wise founding fathers that said…
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware that the Bill of Rights only applied to people born in the states or who jumped through bureaucratic hoops to get here.
Also, junes_Reston, by participating in this conversation, aren’t YOU sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong?
Midnight,
This is what you wrote…
Midnight Ranter said on 4 Apr 2008 at 3:55 pm:
A lot of this seems like classic misunderstandings and overreactions to things that aren’t going to kill us, since they never have in the past.
Where has anyone said Americans do not commit crimes? Again, get your silly liberal relativism out of here. You can talk until you are blue in the face, illegals are criminals, just by the nature of them being here, and they do not belong here. That is why we have immigrants, and that is why illegals are not called immigrants except by their supporters who are trying to play word games and lump everyone in together.
How many illegals are processed through proper immigration channels? Try zero. So again, stop trying to compare what is happening today and what happened 100 years ago or more.
I do not support the “dry” foot issue, and as I said, I would send them all back. How is that being selective about the law?
The media gives us what we want to hear? Ha ha that is pretty funny. No, they do that because they want to make this an issue of race. and not one of law and order.
Again, stop trying to make excuses for people who have broken the law, continue to break the law, and have not redeeming value whatsoever.
Correctly,
Those numbers are very suspect, and course do not include those illegals who work for cash, you know the ones that hang out in parking lots and or work centers.
Just last year, Prince William Hospital spent 15 million dollars o