Herndon Gears Up For A Battle
By Greg L | 3 April 2008 | Fairfax County | 149 Comments
It’s four square miles, has 25,000 residents, and would be a somewhat unremarkable jurisdiction had it not become the first Virginia jurisdiction to face the tsunami of illegal immigrants that later crashed into Manassas, Manassas Park and Prince William County, thus becoming ground zero for the opening salvo in Northern Virginia’s battle to rescue our communities from the scourge of illegal immigration. That battle continues in Herndon between the forces that want to make it a sanctuary for illegal immigration and those that want to enforce the rule of law.
In September of 2005, over the strenuous objections of the citizens of Herndon, the O’Reilly-Bruce town council approved the creation of a taxpayer-funded illegal immigrant hiring site on town-owned property. The citizens were outraged, and in May 2006 the voters threw out the mayor and council members that supported the hiring site. In their place they elected a new mayor and five council members that would enforce the rule of law.
What Herndon’s new mayor and council have accomplished in the last twenty months is absolutely phenomenal and should serve as a shining example of what committed elected officials can do to protect their community from the illegal immigrant invasion. Herndon became the first town in the United States to get their police officers trained to enforce federal immigration law under the 287(g) program, required business license applicants to certify that they are legally present in the U.S. and required town vendors to certify that illegal immigrants will not work on town contracts, and managed to get the publicly-funded day laborer center which was attracting ever more illegal aliens to the town shut down. Residential overcrowding and illegal boarding houses have been reduced by two-thirds, day laborers no longer plague the commercial district, and the quality of life in Herndon has been largely restored to what it had been. Not a bad record for a group of elected officials that their adversaries claimed would fail miserably because of their inexperience.
In May of this year the citizens of Herndon get a chance to confirm that Herndon must not return to being a sanctuary for illegal immigrants. The ballot for the Herndon election has three people running for mayor and ten people running for town council seats. The mayoral candidates are the incumbent Steve DeBenedittis, Harlon Reece a supporter of illegal immigrants and the taxpayer funded hiring site and Jazbender Singh, an advocate for removing all controls on businesses and developers.
The candidates for town council seats break down into three distinct groups. The first group supports illegal immigrants and re-establishing the taxpayer funded hiring site but their real motivation for running is to increase the value of the property they own in downtown Herndon. Richard Downer and Arthur Nachman stand to profit handsomely if they can vote to maximize development density in Herndon’s downtown.
Downer (or his immediate family) owns a property on Pine Street and Nachman owns a larger property on Lynn Street and a property at the corner of Lynn and Station Street. They both stand to quadruple the value of their properties if a proposed 4-5 story hotel is approved at the corner of Monrow and Elden Street. JPI Incorporated has proposed a redevelopment of the downtown that includes 600 condominiums, 70,000 square feet of retail, a 600+ space parking garage and a 250 seat theater. This “project maximo” will increase the value of both the Downer and the Nachman property as they are both ripe for redevelopment. With so much personally at stake, Nachman has committed to a campaign budget that is ten times what is normally spent on Town Council campaigns, and by all appearances is trying to buy, or perhaps more accurately, invest in a seat on the Town Council that could yield tremendous personal financial benefits for him.
The Reece for Mayor campaign is similarly well funded, but the source of these funds appears to be from outside interests. It’s not clear at this point whether the funding is coming from the Democratic Party of Virginia or perhaps Casa de Maryland. The campaign finance statements of this illegal alien-friendly business group should be rather interesting to review once they’re available.
The second group is a carryover from the pro illegal immigrant faction. Penny Halpren and Shelia Olem have little experience in town government and their campaigns are being directed and managed by the losing candidates in the last election. Re-establishing a taxpayer-funded day laborer center and dismantling Herndon’s successful efforts to discourage the unlawful presence of illegal aliens is the clear agenda of this group.
The last group is the incumbents and those responsible for Herndon’s successes, Dennis Husch, Connie Hutchinson, David Kirby, William Tirrell and Charlie Waddell. They are joined by James Vickery, a retired Fairfax County police officer who trained Iraqi police in Baghdad with Blackwater.
Herndon serves as a beacon of hope and shows us all what can be accomplished to rid our communities of illegal immigrants. Hopefully the voters in Herndon will re-elect the supporters of the rule of law; Steve DeBenedittis as mayor and Husch, Hutchinson, Kirby, Tirrell, Waddell and newcomer Vickery as members of town council. Should these accomplishments be dismantled, the implications for other Virginia jurisdictions that are attempting to address the illegal alien issue would be rather troublesome.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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Priceless! …and well done.
Lived there until I was 6. My father’s family were all born in Herndon. House is on the Historical Register. I can see nothing has really changed there in the past 100 years. KKK had a very strong presence in Herndon many years ago and managed to run off all the blacks. Not saying they are present there now but am saying the thinking certainly does not seem to have changed any. Too bad! What a shame!
Another Anonymous, throwing the racist bomb from behind a fence. How brave you are! Nice try, but it doesn’t work.
Hurrah for folks who put a stop to the degredation of their home caused by overcrowding and lawless behavior. Let’s hope that the big money being trucked in to help unseat them goes for naught, and all get re-elected.
Umm, not that I am Daniel Webster, but I think the apology could use a good spell checking.
I would be very interested to know where and from whom you got your information re “Nachman has committed to a campaign budget that is ten times what is normally spent on Town Council campaigns…”? How much is “normal” in your estimation, Greg?
The remark about Harlon Reece’s campaign “being similarly well funded, but the source of these funds appears to be from outside interests. It’s not clear at this point whether the funding is coming from the Democratic Party of Virginia or perhaps Casa de Maryland. The campaign finance statements of this illegal alien-friendly business group should be rather interesting to review once they’re available.” is superbly underhanded and snide with “data” grabbed out of thin air.
First, the mayor and council members are NOT running as members of either the Democratic or Republican party and I doubt VERY much whether DPofV would become involved in the Town election campaign.
(your “apology” shows a twisted kind of humor)
Second, you yourself state that you do not know anything abt Casa de Maryland’s campaign finance statements “should be rather interesting to review ONCE THEY’RE AVAILABLE.” (capitals mine). So you are stating something as FACT when, in fact, you know nothing about it.
Oh, Herndon soooooooo does not need Help Save Manassas to try to Help Save Herndon!
First of all, it’s Penny Halpern, not Peggy.
Do you always listen to Dennis’s diatribes and quickly run to post them as the gospel truth?
Check your facts: Sheila Olem served on the Town of Herndon’s Board of Zoning Appeals for seven years. She was the Vice Chair until Dennis and his minions decided that if you don’t march in lock step with the Town Council, you are not fit to serve. She’s also been involved and worked on various boards and commissions at the County level.
I suggest we do a fair comparison of several current council members experience in government with several of those running… the results might shock you.
Anon,
So, you approve of child rapists and murderers being able to run free in Herndon?
Level-headed Herndon Resident
“CitizenofManassas” is obviously a parrot with no real grasp on the realities in the Town of Herndon.
We do not have “rapists and murderers running free”. We have 24,000 residents and your blanket characterization applies to how many?
. . . based on what statistics? . . . and from what sources?
As an owner of commercial property on Pine Street in Herndon, I would like to inform you that the Old Stone Church on Pine Street is owned by Douglas Downer (his son), not Richard Downer. It is a historic building and cannot be demolished or expanded unless it meet very stringent conditions imposed by the Heritage Preservation Review Board. Doug is renovating the interior of the building for use by his company. The exterior is not being changed.
The proposed hotel will not enhance his business since his company is an insurance company. I can’t imagine hotel lodgers coming there to buy insurance. Richard sold this insurance company to Doug. Therefore, Richard has no vested interest nor gains any profit by running for Town Council. He served on the Town Council from 1971-1974 and again from 1990-2000. You can check him out on his web site www.Downer4Council.com and see his accomplishments and his Vision papers on Herndon issues.
I have known Sheila Olem for many years. She has a distinguished career serving on many County Boards and was Vice Chair of our BZA. She is a stickler for following Roberts Rules of Order and following Zoning Ordinances and Comprehensive Plans. Her web site is: saolem@verizon.net. Check her out too.
You know, as property owners in downtown Herndon, we are probably more concerned about what is approved then others not living or owning property in the downtown. Afterall, it is in our backyard (NIMBY). We want a viibrant exciting downtown. The Contract with JPI should not be approved without citizen input on what we want in our downtown. So why is this Council meeting in closed session with JPI negotiating a Contract?
Level headed,
Anon, thinks combating illegal immigration is on par with the KKK. Talk about not having a grasp of the situation. Anon must support illegal aliens, since they have a problem with upholding the law specifically when it comes to combating illegal immigration. Therefore, anon would not mind illegals who have committed such crimes as murder and rapes.
CitizenofManassas,
Anon must support illegal aliens, since they have a problem with upholding the law specifically when it comes to combating illegal immigration.
So does our federal government. But no matter, your thought process is not logical…
it’s like saying that just because I support the student athletes at Herndon High, I wouldn’t mind it if the quarter back raped my child.
Your overly broad generalizations and incorrect assumptions do nothing but perpetuate the image that most of the rest of the Northern Virginia generalizes about Manassas residents.
Resident,
So you are free to use assumptions about Manassas, but you do not want people to talk about your beloved illegals. Yup, that sure is being informed.
And, exactly what is that image? Because we do not embrace criminals that we are backwards?
Your logic is wrong, since Anon attacked the efforts to combat illegals. Meaning, he in fact supports illegals otherwise, why would he take offense to the City of Herndon, by way of a legal election sent the message the majority of voters were sick of bowing to the illegals.
Herndon is a town, not a city.
Oh Citizen, you couldn’t be more wrong. In fact, I used to live and work in Manassas, and there’s a reason why myself, and all my friends (including the ones who still live there), call it “Manass-hole” or “Dum-assas”.
But that’s not the point of this argument at all. The reason I jumped on you in the first place is because you said one of the most ignorant and inflammatory comments I have ever seen regarding the topic of illegal immigration and the day labor site.
Here, in case your short term memory is that bad, I’ll remind you…
“Anon,
So, you approve of child rapists and murderers being able to run free in Herndon?”
Just because I support doing something for the illegals that are here, including getting them work in my neighborhood which helps them feed their children, does not mean I support rapists and killers.
Plus, you still haven’t answered someone else that asked you to point to your sources which show that all illegal immigrants are rapists and murderers in Herndon… which just proves MY point.
But nice try!
Well, I suppose if they still live here, they must not have much of a problem with the City.
Are you telling me illegals do not rape and murder? If not, then chances are there are illegals who live in the Town of Herndon who have raped and murdered.
By supporting illegals, you are in fact aiding and abating criminals. How do you know the illegals you help out are not rapists and murderers? Though, I suppose you asked them and they gave you an honest answer, after all they are honest people who would never break the law or lie, right?
I’m glad we have one less criminal supporter living in Manassas.
CitizenofManassas, you do know white people rape and murder too. In fact, I have a case from your beloved city to show you in case you weren’t aware of that fact…
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1341758
Also, just to prove my point a little more, you can search for yourself on the Virginia Sex Offender list…
( http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/html/search.htm )
Manassas:
Search Results for City: MANASSAS - 136 matches [Click Photo or Name for detail]
Herndon:
Search Results for City: HERNDON - 35 matches [Click Photo or Name for detail]
Now, if you actually look at the list, most of the Herndon residents on the list are black or white.
Also, strangely, most of them seem to be old… :-/
A little liberal once told me that white people are the cause of all that’s wrong in the world.
Incidentally, that VSP search site is going by post office zip codes for the city name, not the actual city boundaries.
Correctly,
Where did I say they did not? Unlike you, or so it seems, I’m not supportive of any criminals. Though, I must ask how this is relevant to this thread and topic.
Stop making excuses for the criminal behavior of illegals. However, since you did go that route, exactly where are the supporters of these people? Do these people have foreign Governments attempting to undermine our laws for these people? I don’t believe I have ever read or heard anyone say American criminals are otherwise law abiding, and lets cut them slack since they are just trying to feed their families.
At what point do you consider the actions of illegals to be criminal?
CoM - Why don’t you check with the Herndon police dept.? You might get some FACTS; you know real, factual information.
I believe there’ve been two murders in Herndon withing the last 10-15 years. Both took place, not on a street, but right outside homes where there had been too much alcohol consumed and fights ensued. Nobody has been shot or stabbed while walking down a street in town as far as I know.
(A gentle hint: the word that goes with “aiding” is “abetting”. Abating is very different. Look it up!)
BTW - you are really feisty tonight
Oh, when you help a person (you DO help people, don’t you?)you don’t know, do you ask that person whether he/she is a rapist or murderer? Doesn’t sound like a normal thing to do, but maybe YOU do; you know, just to make sure you’re not aiding an abetting. Not all rapists and murderers LOOK like rapists and murderers, so one had better check.
MP Resident, are you implying that the Herndon zip code is just the 4 square mile boundaries?
No, I’m saying that zip code boundaries do not coincide with political boundaries.
In addition to that, according to the USPS there are only two regular (non unique and non PO box) zip codes with Herndon as the actual city name, these are 20170 and 20171. All the others with “Herndon” as the “acceptable” city name have “Reston” as the actual city name.
I should say that zip code boundaries do not usually coincide with political boundaries. There are, of course, cases where they do.
CitizenofManassas…
You are missing my point and I am quickly losing patience with your inability to comprehend the error of your logic… your original statement was that by supporting providing a safe place for these people to find work I am in effect supporting murders and rapists - you still have not proved how that is true.
However, I’ll answer your question by asking you to look at your own family history. I’m going assume for the sake of argument that you are not 100% native american. If I’m wrong feel free to correct me.
If that holds true, then your ancestors were at some point, immigrants. In fact, I’m willing to bet that somewhere in your line there is some point who skirted the laws and got here by whatever means they could. In fact, I’ll go ahead and make the assumption (because it’s true in most cases) that someone in your family is also a criminal.
You see, when it comes right down to it, we’re not all that different than the immigrants you seem to hate so much. We are a nation built on the “American Dream” and the phrase “Bring me your tired, your hungry, your poor…”. These people are just following the path that our own ancestors followed so long ago…
You can argue all you want about how these people are breaking the law by coming into this country… but how can you fault them for that?
Perhaps if the federal government got off their collective asses and did something about the backlog of paperwork for people trying to enter the country legally, or their own government wasn’t so corrupt that they could actually stay in their country (remind you much of the protestants coming to the ‘States to escape religious persecution?) then we could have a simple solution to this situation we as a country find ourselves in.
Until then, people like you who spout inflammatory statements that imply all immigrants are rapists and murders are doing nothing to help intelligent discussion on a solution, and serve to compound the problems facing our nation.
“or their own government wasn’t so corrupt that they could actually stay in their country”
In light of that, what do you think about attempts by these corrupt foreign governments to influence the political process here in the USA?
In light of that, what do you think about attempts by these corrupt foreign governments to influence the political process here in the USA?
Every government is going to try to influence the political process in the United States in some way or another - it comes with the territory of being the last ’super power’.
The beauty of our government is that it’s set up in such a way that educated people who participate in the political process on a constant basis can stop these governments efforts in their tracks.
Such a shame the majority of the people doin the bitchin’ are apathetic and don’t show up to vote isn’t it?
Yes, we even had one (who didn’t bother to vote) run for office here.
Yes, we even had one (who didn’t bother to vote) run for office here.
The ultimate hypocrisy. Go figure!
Correctly,
First off I am a Native American, being born here that would make me a Native American, and as far as I know, I do not have any American Indian blood in me. My ancestors came here by ship and had to go through proper immigration channels to do so, that is why I can trace my family tree using Government sources. I hardly think the same can be said of illegals today.
Second off, an illegal alien is not an immigrant. An immigrant is one who follows the law to get here, as opposed to an illegal alien who does not.
Stop trying to compare illegal aliens with those immigrants that were able to follow the law. The fact this Nation has accepted MILLIONS OF IMMIGRANTS just proves it can be done legally.
It is not inflammatory to want to rid the Nation of illegal aliens. Just because you support these criminals, and have made up your mind that no matter what facts are presented to you, you will ignore them, does not make you right in any way shape or form.
I asked you at what point do you consider illegals to cross the line to being a criminal in your opinion. Again, if you help one illegal out, you are in fact providing the incentive for more to come here, and that simply is not acceptable.
So, according to you, if you speak out against illegals, it is not being constructive toward a solution? Wow, just amazing. The problem is that for too long we have put up with illegals, and now we are paying the price.
It is easy to be pissed off at illegals, they come here breaking the law, they continue to break the law once here, and then they do not want to be held accountable for their actions. Yet, they say they just want to be treated like everyone else. Well, like everyone else, if they are caught for their crimes, they should face the punishment. That punishment is deportation.
Why should we respect people who break the law?
Do you feel all criminals should be free of punishment?
Yes, it would be refreshing for those Nations who seem to be so concerned with their Citizens after they have left their Country to show some concern for them before they left. However, they realize it is much easier to do that, then it is to enact economic reforms that will keep people from leaving.
Our Federal Government does need to improve immigration enforcement. However, until that happens, States and local Governments need to pick up the slack.
I believe the person who did not vote and ran for office is a supporter of illegals. Go figure.
So, according to you, if you speak out against illegals, it is not being constructive toward a solution?
You didn’t speak out against illegals though - you made a blanket statement which implied they were all rapists and murders. You keep forgetting that fact!
I said no such thing. I said, they obviously support rapists and murderers walking freely in the streets. How is that saying all illegals are those types of criminals. ANON did not want to take any action against illegals, not even those types of illegals, because, as I posted earlier, if anon did, they would have made a distinction of wanting to just allow the “hard working” otherwise law abiding illegals to be able to use the work center and to live in the Town.
Keep avoiding my questions, though, you do fit in with 99% of the illegal alien supporters who post here.
It is easy to be pissed off at illegals, they come here breaking the law, they continue to break the law once here, and then they do not want to be held accountable for their actions. Yet, they say they just want to be treated like everyone else. Well, like everyone else, if they are caught for their crimes, they should face the punishment. That punishment is deportation.
What about the people who come here legally, establish themselves, and then the government does not process their paperwork in time? The people who’s children are here in schools already, and their visa runs out because they are stuck in all the red tape… should they uproot their entire family and go back to a country where they have no way to support themselves because OUR government can’t get it together?
Not every case is like that, but there are surprisingly more than you think. Not every person who is here illegally came across the boarder illegally to begin with.
And while we’re on the subject of deportation, the federal government is the only branch with the power to deport people - so like I said before, until they do something about it, the state and local governments have their hands tied.
Finally, I’ll say this… as a female in her early twenties who has lived in both Herndon and Manassas, as well as having classes in Annandale and a job in Seven Corners, I have seen the worst of the worst as far as immigration goes. When Herndon opened the Day Labor site, it freed me up to actually goto the 711 and get a drink without wolf whistles… and I could goto my bank without thinking I was going to run someone over.
That still hasn’t happened in Manassas. Driving on 243 I am often fearful of the groups of what seems to be Day Laborers walking around on the side of the road.
So, Herndon, in my mind, attempted to do something that was a win-win situation for the businesses in Herndon which rely on the cheap labor to stay profitiable, and the people who are here until the Feds do something.
That’s called a compromise - something I think we could all strive for in this country on this issue.
ANON did not want to take any action against illegals, not even those types of illegals, because, as I posted earlier, if anon did, they would have made a distinction of wanting to just allow the “hard working” otherwise law abiding illegals to be able to use the work center and to live in the Town.
How exactly did you come to that conclusion from what Anon said?
You know what assuming does right?
Since you drive, I am going to assume you have a driver’s license. Does it have an expiration date? I know mine does, and I make it a point to have ET renewed in time before it expires.
More importantly is making sure a visa does not run out. Many people choose to let them run out. Visas have expiration dates, people are provided that date when they are provided the visa, and therefore should take the time to ensure they renew them on time and take into account the time it would take. Sort of like it is not smart to show up at the DMV on the day your license expires or at the last day of the month and expect to breeze in and out of the DMV in minutes.
Providing a place for illegals to look for jobs is not a compromise at all, it is in fact showing support for their law breaking and in fact takes the responsibility of the Federal Government away, which you seem to not want to do.
The 287g program allows local and State Governments to work in hand with the Federal Government. Of course the Feds are the ones who can deport people, but that does not mean they are the only ones that can do something about illegals.
Yes, I did experience the same thing in Herndon. But, at least you admit illegals are not exactly the politest folks or the most law abiding. I’ll give you credit for that, most supporters of illegals won’t even do that.
Hopefully with the new Country program it will make it less likely that you will have to put up with illegals when you go into the 7-11 on 234.
If Anon does not think that, they need to repost how they truly feel about the issue.
If Anon does not think that, they need to repost how they truly feel about the issue.
I think Anon has probably gone to bed a while ago, much like I should be doing right now…
Yes, I did experience the same thing in Herndon. But, at least you admit illegals are not exactly the politest folks or the most law abiding. I’ll give you credit for that, most supporters of illegals won’t even do that.
Also - I think you are wrong in using the term “polite” here. It’s more of a cultural thing than anything else. They are used to congregrating on the streets looking for employment, hanging out with their family, conversing with neighbors. It’s just what they do here, and in their home country.
For instance, if you’ve ever been to Europe, have you noticed that Europeans don’t form lines at cash registers? And if you are there, and try to - you get weird looks? The same theory applies the next time you’re down in DC and some German tourist cuts in front of you - before you curse at them for being impolite realize they might not know the customs of the country.
And until we spend time educating them and showing the customs of our country - they will never know. The Day Labor site provided that kind of education and training free of charge to them by volunteers so that when they did become a citizen of the country, they would fit into our melting pot.
Finally…
More importantly is making sure a visa does not run out. Many people choose to let them run out. Visas have expiration dates, people are provided that date when they are provided the visa, and therefore should take the time to ensure they renew them on time and take into account the time it would take. Sort of like it is not smart to show up at the DMV on the day your license expires or at the last day of the month and expect to breeze in and out of the DMV in minutes.
Unless you have applied to become a citizen of the United States, or have studied the process extensively, I think a comparison of this type is a bit unfair. The process to become a citizen is no where near as simple as renewing your drivers license and more akin to getting your drivers license after having your learners permit where you have to take behind the wheel…
One point neglected in the above “ping-pong match”:
Illegal entry into the U.S. is a CIVIL misdemeanor, according to the law.
CRIMINAL felony offenses are clearly spelled out and those who commit criminal felony offenses deserve serious punishment. And, if the offenders entered the country illegally, then they are subject to deportation.
Oh, but I forgot some folks refuse to accept that there are many laws, not just ONE “rule of law” . . . and there are gradations of offense . . . that things can be more or less important.
Rapists and murderers, all serious offenders and anyone convicted of DUI – lock ’em up and if illegal aliens, no bail and deport.
Does that make me “pro-illegals”?
That day laborer site did little more than act like a magnet for illegal aliens who heard from their compatriots that not only could they find work in Herndon, but that there was a complete support structure of well-meaning fools that would provide them with all manner of support, and fostered an environment that created a ready supply of illegal boarding houses that they could cram themselves into.
The neighborhood in the environs of the “official day laborer center” was turned into a suburban slum, drunken illegal aliens killed residents in motor vehicle accidents, and these impacts resulted in an unprecedented wave of public opposition. The day laborer center was a disaster.
Educating illegal aliens is a waste of time, effort, and the public funds that would inevitably be used to fund such an effort. Effective enforcement of the law, which discourages these lawbreakers from unlawfully residing here and turning our communities into replicas of the third-world nations the illegal aliens came from is the only proven method of restoring a community that is assaulted in this manner. We might as well try to relive poverty among illegal aliens by giving them taxpayer-funded subsidies, while ignoring that such behavior will do nothing but encourage more of them to come.
RE CULTURAL PATTERNS:
How many folks have noticed how native and long-term Americans hang out in BACKyards on decks etc and find it extremely important to have privacy fences. That’s the way this culture has evolved.
In many Spanish-speaking countries, the tendency is to socialize in a community meeting place — a plaza or similar. And here, the way our neighborhoods a built, there is no plaza so people from “plaza-countries” tend to hang out in public spaces, in FRONT yards where they live, etc.
Similarly, most “natives” jump in the car to drive two blocks to the store, while many “immigrants”—legal AND illegal—might be more likely to WALK, or ride a bike. Oh, my!
Oh, yeah, and you mean to tell me that a bunch of white boys,
or any shade of native-born guys never whistle at girls going by?
Just a little culture-observation.
“For instance, if you’ve ever been to Europe, have you noticed that Europeans don’t form lines at cash registers?”
Which Europeans? Germans sure do form lines at cash registers.
Great idea. Let’s entirely change our culture in order to accommodate the desires of illegal aliens so their unlawful existence here can be more comfortable and familiar.
You’ve got to be kidding me.
If you’re referring to where or how people hang out to socialize — or who is more likely to ride bikes or walk and or drive cars — heck no, I’m not suggesting we change our culture to accommodate illegal aliens.
I was referring to ONE type of behavior that is not unique to illegal aliens, but also to folks from some of the Spanish-speaking countries who are here LEGALLY.
After all, the problem isn’t about legal immigrants or “all immigrants,” right?
jfk said :
“Hurrah for folks who put a stop to the degredation of their home caused by overcrowding and lawless behavior. Let’s hope that the big money being trucked in to help unseat them goes for naught, and all get re-elected.”
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
You should say “Hurrah for PREVIOUS Councils, too!”
The current Council has done well to FOLLOW THROUGH and USE the tools and enforcement put in place BY PRIOR COUNCILS.
They did not add or strengthen ordinances or add staff to enable overcrowding enforcement –
they DID make a lot of noise and scared enough people to elect them.
It was TOWN COUNCIL(S)’ HARD WORK in 2002-2003-2004-2005-2006 to enact ordinances increasing neighborhood protections, establish the NRC, define “families” and hire zoning enforcement personnel.
THIS COUNCIL borrowed 3 staff people from other departments–short term, so they can SAY they increased staffing.
Taking credit for the work of previous councils
is not a huge achievement to be proud of.
Sadly, fear-mongerers promote the idea that the current council has DONE these things entirely on it’s own — but they’ve only done what had already been established. BIG DEAL!
It woulda happened and enforcement had begun to increase already
Radical factions who want to cleanse our land of illegal aliens get so wrapped up in that self-righteous crusade that they see little else and claim all manner of ridiculous things.
Also sadly, people who fall for the extreme claims and are one-issue voters will vote for the so-called “enforcers” again unless they learn more.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
BIG MONEY? in Herndon? Yikes! WHAT MONEY?
It is great fun to rattle off crap without substantiation. Again, I ask: Sources? But that may be a futile question.
G’night
Level,
As I said it is even more important for Visa holders to get in early to avoid issues.
Though, I hardly doubt the boys hanging out in the parking lot, looking for jobs are visa holders. They are looking to work(against the law) while being here illegally, and not paying taxes(against the law). Right there are two additional laws they have broken.
So, it is a culture thing to come here breaking the law, once here to continue to break the law, and then to ignore or expect laws to be changed, rather then to adopt to the Country they are in.
The only fear mongers are those who support illegals, who spread alll sorts of lies regarding the program started by PW County.
Level Headed
Let me remind you that Herndon has one of highest latino gang concentration in Northern Virginia and only Maryland can rival you. It was your area’s horrid machete attacks and gang presence which made the news long before the illegal alien problem became so relevant in PWC. But this hilarious sparring match in which you, I suppose a Herndon town member, are trying to to paint Manassas as humanity’s rear end really makes me laugh, considering the ruinous deterioration your town has suffered at the hand of illegals. If you think that your geographical location makes you superior, please hide in the bathroom, and quick! Herndon was always the place where less affluent and less educated people ended up when they could not afford Vienna or Fairfax! You can consult census data for verification if you please.
In addition, your defence of multiculturalism at all costs and hospitability to all but the most heinous of illegals ( and, seemingly even those) is not shared by your own compadres who apparently have not only shut down the pissoir which was your labor center but has managed to oust the government members who had allowed such unpopular policies.
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 12:17 am:
Unless you have applied to become a citizen of the United States, or have studied the process extensively, I think a comparison of this type is a bit unfair. The process to become a citizen is no where near as simple as renewing your drivers license and more akin to getting your drivers license after having your learners permit where you have to take behind the wheel………………………….
That the citizenship process is so complex is all the more reason to take offense with those who, for whatever reason, feel they are entitled to circumvent the laws and people like you should help them do so.
I find it especially disquieting when I read of legal residents proudly proclaiming they assist illegal aliens in finding jobs – in violation of National and Virginia Employment Laws.
Demanding others do the same compromises American Mom & Pop businesses (and their employees) that cannot complete because they play by the rules. A very real concern you have overlooked is that these Mom & Pop business owners and their employees have families to feed too, but they are not eligible for the numerous benefits and services offered freely to illegal aliens – often with no verifiable documentation required.
The message you are sending is “do NOT play by the rules – no matter how many lives are adversely affected.
Ooops - cleared my internet Cookies and Files and forgot to sign in. Sorry Anon (even though no one believes you would ever write something like this).
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 12:17 am:
Unless you have applied to become a citizen of the United States, or have studied the process extensively, I think a comparison of this type is a bit unfair. The process to become a citizen is no where near as simple as renewing your drivers license and more akin to getting your drivers license after having your learners permit where you have to take behind the wheel………………………….
That the citizenship process is so complex is all the more reason to take offense with those who, for whatever reason, feel they are entitled to circumvent the laws and people like you should help them do so.
I find it especially disquieting when I read of legal residents proudly proclaiming they assist illegal aliens in finding jobs – in violation of National and Virginia Employment Laws.
Demanding others do the same compromises American Mom & Pop businesses (and their employees) that cannot complete because they play by the rules. A very real concern you have overlooked is that these Mom & Pop business owners and their employees have families to feed too, but they are not eligible for the numerous benefits and services offered freely to illegal aliens – often with no verifiable documentation required.
The message you are sending is “do NOT play by the rules – no matter how many lives are adversely affected.
The only fear mongers are those who support illegals, who spread alll sorts of lies regarding the program started by PW County.
Have I said anything regarding the programs in PW County? I don’t believe I have. What I do believe, is while I applaud them for their efforts, the majority of the efforts that have been set forth don’t pass a constitutional test and will be overturned eventually by the courts. But that’s neither here nor there, it was good of them to try.
(In contrast, I am in awe of the Community Policing programs your police department has put forth in the past 10 or so years - they are a wonder of local police and community working together to form a better community. You should be proud.)
Demanding others do the same compromises American Mom & Pop businesses (and their employees) that cannot complete because they play by the rules. A very real concern you have overlooked is that these Mom & Pop business owners and their employees have families to feed too, but they are not eligible for the numerous benefits and services offered freely to illegal aliens – often with no verifiable documentation required.
You definitely picked the wrong topic to attack the presence of them on. The fall of the mom and pop type business can definitely be placed on the shoulders of big corporations, such as Walmart, Kmart and Target. Not on illegals.
In fact, I would suggest that without the illegals, the remaining mom and pop businesses would probably cease to exist. Look at the restaurant business as an example. Do you think that any mom and pop type restaurant can afford to pay some entitled 16 year old twit to wash dishes? Scrub pans? Sweep the floor and clean the kitchen? These businesses in fact rely on the illegal’s to be here in order to keep their business in the green. Or how about the small construction business? Doing yard work? Building fences and porches in the rain/snow/sun? Do you think your spoiled sixteen year old will work for minimum wage (or below as these people sometimes do) for in some cases, over 8 an hours a day, in order to complete the work? No - they won’t.
Let me remind you that Herndon has one of highest latino gang concentration in Northern Virginia and only Maryland can rival you. It was your area’s horrid machete attacks and gang presence which made the news long before the illegal alien problem became so relevant in PWC.
I am sorry to say that you are misinformed on this one, and should perhaps check your facts instead of believing and then posting as the truth what others have told you. The Northern Virginia machete attacks actually happened in Falls Church. ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/17/AR2005081701856.html ) In addition, the highest concentration of gang members in the area has been, and continues to be, in Falls Church/Seven Corners/Bailey’s Xroads.
Herndon was always the place where less affluent and less educated people ended up when they could not afford Vienna or Fairfax! You can consult census data for verification if you please.
Herndon and Manassas are not so different in that respect, are they? The only difference being right now Herndon has that tech corridor thing going on… how about Manassas?
By the way, I am not a Herndon resident now - I actually live in Ashburn. I am just informed on most of the local politics in the area because that’s what good citizens of the United States do.
That day laborer site did little more than act like a magnet for illegal aliens who heard from their compatriots that not only could they find work in Herndon
Really? I thought they were already here because of all the hotels, restaurants and development that would provide them work in the area. Silly me!
Level-headed Herndon Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 2:57 am:
The current Council has done well to FOLLOW THROUGH and USE the tools and enforcement put in place BY PRIOR COUNCILS.
They did not add or strengthen ordinances or add staff to enable overcrowding enforcement –
they DID make a lot of noise and scared enough people to elect them.
It was TOWN COUNCIL(S)’ HARD WORK in 2002-2003-2004-2005-2006 to enact ordinances increasing neighborhood protections, establish the NRC, define “families” and hire zoning enforcement personnel.
THIS COUNCIL borrowed 3 staff people from other departments–short term, so they can SAY they increased staffing.
Taking credit for the work of previous councils
is not a huge achievement to be proud of.
Sorry, but this sounds like good government to me. You have a group that 1) enforced the laws already on the books; 2) worked within their means to not increase spending or bloat the city payroll and 3) involved other agencies in the process to gain efficiencies. I wish we had such a group in Manassas!
Your slur against Manassas earlier is sad. Too bad you have to sink to this level. Folks can disagree without being disagreable. Hopefully, time and maturity will help you to understand that.
“By the way, I am not a Herndon resident now - I actually live in Ashburn. I am just informed on most of the local politics in the area because that’s what good citizens of the United States do.”
hehe… I’m sure current Herndon residents absolutely love you speaking for them. You may have to expand your potential abode areas to include those on the other side of the Potomac. That’s where the gravy train is heading. All aboard!
“Herndon has that tech corridor thing going on”
Those companies may have a Herndon zip code but most are not in the town limits.
Those companies may have a Herndon zip code but most are not in the town limits.
Your point is…?
I’m sure current Herndon residents absolutely love you speaking for them. You may have to expand your potential abode areas to include those on the other side of the Potomac.
Ah, one of those. Let me explain - although I do not live in Herndon, I do the majority of my business in Herndon. I eat at Tortilla Factory at least twice a month, I goto Friday Night Live every Friday in the summer, Jimmy’s Old Town Tavern is my favorite bar. On lunch breaks from my company (in Sterling) I goto play pool at Hard Times in the KMart shopping center because it’s free if you buy $8 worth of food.
Just because I don’t live within the towns boarders doesn’t mean my money isn’t spent there, or utilized by the town. Therefore, I have a vested interest in the politics of the area I like to play, even if I rest my head somewhere else.
Because you don’t reside within the Herndon town borders, and occasionally spend your money at town establishments hardly give you credence to presume you have a “vested interest.”
(as an FYI - Boarders are the ones who overcrowded single family homes and trashed the neighborhoods - emphasis on past tense)
“A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 8:47 am:
That day laborer site did little more than act like a magnet for illegal aliens who heard from their compatriots that not only could they find work in Herndon
Really? I thought they were already here because of all the hotels, restaurants and development that would provide them work in the area. Silly me! ”
Quite silly actually when you consider that Mayor O’Reilly’s pet project was a neon sign to illegal aliens that, with the opening of the day labor center, Herndon became an official safe haven.
Fortunately other communities within Northern VA were more “aware of their surroundings” than you. For this reason, there are NO tax funded day labor centers ANY WHERE in Fairfax County, despite $500,000 allocated in the Fairfax County Budget.
Simply because YOU feel you are “correctly informed” does not necessarily make it so.
Based on the tone of your posts, can we presume we won’t see you at Connie’s fund raiser tomorrow?
What: Meet & Greet fundraiser for Connie Hutchinson
When: Saturday, April 5th from 1 to 2 PM
Where: So Addictive Internet Cafe (corder of Elden and Spring Streets)
Connie’s website: www.connieforcouncil.com
Greg L. - Referring to my comment of 3 April @ 5:47 pm:
Have you found the sources of your statements regarding the funding of Harlon Reece’s campaign?
Have you decided yet what’s “normal” when it comes to the spending you say Nachman is planning? How do you know what’s “normal”?
An inquiring mind wants to know.
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 9:41 am:
“Ah, one of those. Let me explain - although I do not live in Herndon, I do the majority of my business in Herndon. I eat at Tortilla Factory at least twice a month, I goto Friday Night Live every Friday in the summer, Jimmy’s Old Town Tavern is my favorite bar. On lunch breaks from my company (in Sterling) I goto play pool at Hard Times in the KMart shopping center because it’s free if you buy $8 worth of food.”
Just wanted to reemphasize your point to strenghten my point.
Correctly Informed: Are you an illegal alien supporter?
You sure put a lot of effort into your overly long posts. Is that the Ashburn near Richmond? Does Ashburn have illegal aliens running amok? If so, a Help Save Ashburn chapter would be in order.
Quite silly actually when you consider that Mayor O’Reilly’s pet project was a neon sign to illegal aliens that, with the opening of the day labor center, Herndon became an official safe haven.
Mike O’Reilly was doing something with a bad situation. In fact, if I remember correctly, Mike ran on the premisis of doing something about the situation in downtown Herndon, especially by the 7/11, Apple FCU and Wachovia/First Union. He was elected based on that platform. Then he actually did what he promised, and was subsequently forced out of office.
For this reason, there are NO tax funded day labor centers ANY WHERE in Fairfax County, despite $500,000 allocated in the Fairfax County Budget.
Perhaps that has more to do with the fact that there are no organizations in other areas willing to work with the government and create a solution to a problem like Hope and Harmony was. If there was, I assume the same Fairfax County government that alloted funds to Herndon probably would have been amicable to awarding them funds for a similar solution. (Provided it followed the constitutional guidelines set forth for such endeavors.)
Because you don’t reside within the Herndon town borders, and occasionally spend your money at town establishments hardly give you credence to presume you have a “vested interest.”
I’m going to go ahead and assume from your moniker here that you are a Reston resident - so going by your logic, why would you be attending Connie Hutchinson’s event at So Addictive?
Are you an illegal alien supporter?
No, I am someone who strives for a compromise in situation where there seems to be no winning.
You sure put a lot of effort into your overly long posts.
Perhaps that is because I am somewhat educated and passionate about this issue?
Is that the Ashburn near Richmond?
Going back to the educated thing, Ashburn is an area of Loudoun County which is according to google maps 10 miles from downtown Herndon and 23 miles from Manassas. Perhaps you should brush up on the surrounding areas before you fly off at the keyboard?
Does Ashburn have illegal aliens running amok? If so, a Help Save Ashburn chapter would be in order.
Ashburn has a bunch of people who sit on their porches and speak out against illegal immigration while they pay the companies who hire illegals to mow their laws and tend to their gardens.
A Correctly Informed Resident, — My “spoiled 16 year old son or entitled 16 year old twit” would love to have one of those minimum wage jobs you say only illegals will do. Total Nonsense!
It is just another weak excuse trying to justify why illegals are living illegally in the United States! Now it is because of our children? There is absolutely no excuse as to why illegals have been sneaking across the border — they think laws don’t apply to them!! Why wait for a visa when there are jobs that spoiled 16 years won’t do and they, the poor misunderstood illegals will.
Hmmm, throw in the school programs for their many children — yes, free and subsidized lunch programs, extra teachers and assistants (that unsuspecting taxpayers are paying for) to translate and teach English, Math, History, etc. Add in free and subsidized medical — go to any emergency room in the afternoon and evening and you will see; plus total overcrowding of housing and utilities that is ruining neighborhoods; and wait, those free food vouchers every month — something most middle-class AMERICANS could dearly use — WOW, Americans are getting quite a bargain! Most didn’t know they would be paying for all these poor misunderstood illegals with their tax money.
I tell you what, send them all home and I will “make” my 16 year old work one of those jobs! Sounds like a deal to me!
American,
I agree with you, something needs to be done about the free health care and free education that these residents get. No argument there. But how about this one.
I have a friend who is currently based in North Carolina. He has two masters degrees and currently works as a high school teacher. He loves his job, and he loves this country.
He is from Columbia.
The high school he works at can not sponsor his visa, and his paperwork has been held up so long in the federal government that unless he finds a wife within the next two months - he will be facing deportation even though he has been living in the United States for over 10 years.
Now, if someone with two masters degrees who works as a teacher (and I don’t think any of you will argue that being a teacher is a noble profession where more are needed) can not get his paperwork through the government in time to keep him here legally - how is someone who barely speaks the language and is uneducated supposed to do so?
Perhaps instead of sitting here flambeing the local government for how they chose to handle a situation that the feds created we organize our efforts to get the federal government to tighten the boarders, and make it so that people who want to come here legally and become hard working, tax paying members of our society can do so.
“we organize our efforts to get the federal government to tighten the boarders, and make it so that people who want to come here legally and become hard working, tax paying members of our society can do so.”
A Correctly Informed Resident, I can agree on that. Yes, there are some educated, employed, and productive non-citizens living in the United States for long periods of time that should have some type of assistance to help them stay. Most, however, are not. They are a drain on our country and economy and need to be sent home. The United States can’t possibly be the “answer” for every uneducated and unskilled person in the world. Most wouldn’t come if they had to apply for a visa, wait and enter legally and then can look for a job. AND, pay their way like every American has to. Do away with all the FREE programs and they won’t come!
“Your point is…?”
The elected officials of the Town of Herndon had nothing to do with those businesses choosing to locate in Fairfax County.
Do away with all the FREE programs and they won’t come!
We seem to be caught in a catch 22 though, and I’m sure you’ll agree. Until the Federal government changes the law, towns like ours (Manassas and Herndon) are left to deal with the fall out of this entire situation.
For instance, with the Day Labor center - Mike O’Reilly and the town council were trying to make the best of a bad situation. There was overcrowding, loitering, and general eye-sore in the town. Unfortunately, legally, we had a couple road blocks:
First, anti-loitering laws are illegal. They are unconstitutional, and that has been upheld many times. No wiggle room there unless the town wants to pay the big bucks for a big lawsuit they’d probably lose.
Now, the town can put together an anti-solicitation ordinance. Sounds like a good idea right? But wait, the only way they can do that without facing a big fat lawsuit from various groups is if they have a place where people can solicit work. That’s cool, we’ll open a day labor center so we can do that…
But then the law also said… “Oh, but hold on Herndon, your day labor center? It can’t ask for papers proving the people there are legal citizens. The people hiring them can (and are in fact by law required to) but YOU can’t! Sorry, deal with it.”
So Herndon tried to deal with it - and somehow the town council got the label of being “illegal friendly” when they were just trying to make the town a better place and deal with a crappy situation.
Prince William and Manassas has tried to deal with it in a different way, and are probably going to face massive lawsuits from groups who are TRULY illegal immigrant supporters. I’m going to be really interested in seeing how that turns out, and which programs get overturned, which stick.
The only difference between PWC and Herndon is that Herndon tried to work within the confines of current Federal and State law while PWC said, “To hell with it, we’re gonna do what the people want, and then fight it out in court!”
I hope PWC succeeds and makes some progress in the court system and forces the federal and state government to deal with the situation.
I’m curious as to what Federal and State laws you believe PWC is violating.
Why is it that unemployment is going up, construction jobs way way down but there are still a 1000 Mexicans a day trying to sneak into America???
It’s not about jobs. It’s about life in America - which has a much higher living standard. A living standard caused by a lot of highly educated and highly paid workers.
That living standard will fall if we let the flood of illegals continue.
Don’t believe me. Well….look at Mexico.
Why is their standard of living well below ours?
Think about it!
The US can only absorb so many poor, uneducated workers before it brings the whole system down.
Before we are similar to Mexico in quality of life.
Think about it.
Correctly Informed: You got me–I goofed. I was thinking of Ashland, the home of the Smoky Pig BBQ.
The thing I just can’t comprehend is you desire to “compromise”. I don’t compromise with illegal aliens.
Becky: Why do they continue to sneak in? Because Mexico and Central America are cesspools. The illegals are trying to turn the US into an environment they’re more familiar with–corruption, poverty and filth.
It’s the uneducated lumpenproletariat that sneak into our country. Very convenient for the ruling classes of these countries. They get rid of their losers AND remittances fill their coffers!
A Corectly Informed: Since you are somewhat educated, may I remind you of something? Parsimony.
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 10:36 am:
“Mike O’Reilly was doing something with a bad situation. In fact, if I remember correctly, Mike ran on the premisi of doing something about the situation in downtown Herndon, especially by the 7/11, Apple FCU and Wachovia/First Union. He was elected based on that platform. Then he actually did what he promised, and was subsequently forced out of office………………”
Mike O’Reilly’s $175,000 Elden Street Clean Up could have easily been resolved by doing the same thing PWC is doing right now. Don’t deceive yourself by thinking that Mike didn’t have his own agenda – and it had nothing to do with Herndon. The voters knew this and that is why he was subsequently forced out of office. .
“I’m going to go ahead and assume from your moniker here that you are a Reston resident - so going by your logic, why would you be attending Connie Hutchinson’s event at So Addictive? …………………
I’m one of those folks with a Herndon zip code - call it neighborly. Or, you can open your eyes and see Reston abuts Herndon; what happens in Herndon affects Reston. Its my civic obligation to help those financially who are working to help me.
As for your Columbian friend - 10 years and 2 Masters degrees and he’s still clueless as to how to secure and/or extend his work visa? For someone who loves teaching so much, one would have to ask why he turned his back on his own people - who obviously and desperately need teachers with his qualifications. Something is not quite right with this picture - but then your friend isn’t much different than the others who are of questionable status - they have a sense of misplaced entitlement that you’ve bought in to.
what happens in Herndon affects Reston.
Are you suggesting by that comment that what happens in Herndon doesn’t effect Sterling / Ashburn too? Because I assure you - it does.
Something is not quite right with this picture - but then your friend isn’t much different than the others who are of questionable status - they have a sense of misplaced entitlement that you’ve bought in to.
You’re right, something is not quite right with this picture, and it’s the fact that the wheels of government move very slowly with no hope for those who are trying to stay legally. I find it disturbing that you would so easily sling names and make moral judgments at/for those you don’t know and only have a snippet of their situation. Also - I’m pretty sure someone such as yourself has never applied for residency in the United States and probably don’t understand the process to begin with. Once you’re paperwork is turned it - it’s a waiting game.
Yes, he could quit his job teaching and get a job in the private sector where he would be sponsored in order to stay in the states. He could get married to an American born woman to stay in the states. There are a variety of things he COULD do, by why should he have to do them when he is a member of society which is doing great works in the city which he lives? Because the federal government can’t get off their asses to hire people to push through the amount of paperwork that comes in on people trying to get citizenship.
It seems the government is making some sort of progress if you read the press releases from USCIS regarding it - but I’m not so sure I believe them. I know too many people at my company, and my friends companies, and from college, that are having problems with getting their citizenship to agree with the fact that they average 13 - 15 months to be naturalized.
Finally your sense of entitlement is perhaps the most disgusting sort. It’s nothing but localized racism disguised as concern for the nation. You say the exact same thing that was said about the Jewish, the Japanese/Asians and Irish when they migrated here in mass numbers. They didn’t collapse the nation, and if the United States as a whole realized that the only thing differentiating these immigrants from those is the fact that the Mexican’s and Hispanics in general can WALK across the boarder (where as other groups had to stowe away on boats or fly) and react appropriately (boarder control) then there would be no problem at all.
Also, for all your complaining about the Hispanics and illegals using up “our” services, I would hope you all would hold American citizens to the same standards, and you would be against generational welfare and the resources that our own citizens drain from us…
After all, how can you complain about the people who by own your admission are uneducated and are a drain because they don’t know better, when our own citizens are doing the exact same thing and we fully support them?
The difference between citizens obtaining taxpayer-funded benefits and illegal aliens obtaining taxpayer-funded benefits is that citizens are legally entitled to those services and it is against Virginia law to provide these services to illegal aliens.
Not to mention that the idea of providing public support to those who break the law, which only encourages further lawbreaking, is utterly outrageous.
Not to mention that the idea of providing public support to those who break the law, which only encourages further lawbreaking, is utterly outrageous.
You realize that our entire prison system is designed so that tax payers PAY to support people when they break the law, in every way possible… correct?
Reply to Citizen of Manassas comment of 3 April @ 7:36 pm re “rapists and murderers being able to run free in Herndon”.
Statistics fr Herndon Police department are:
During the past 10 years, 1998 - present, the department has investigated 7 (seven) homicide cases (9 victims). One case was deemed justifiable (self defense) and one from 2000 claimed 3 victims.
I didn’t ask about rapes. Figured you should do it yourself, if you’re interested.
And, you’re welcome!
Also, you guys fail to realize that these people DO pay taxes. You seem to think they are magically exempt from sales taxes, sin taxes, and gas taxes.
With the small amount these people do pull in, do you *really* think they would be paying that much into the federal and state tax system anyway?
I suggest you look here (pops) so that you can learn about their buying power and how much they stand to spend in an economy where most American citizens have over extended themselves to the point where they can not spend as they once did.
Interesting factoids for you to chew on include:
“Over the nineteen-year period, 1990-2009, the nation’s Hispanic buying power will grow at a dynamic compound annual rate of 8.2 percent. (The comparable rate of growth for non-Hispanics is 4.9 percent.) In sheer dollar power, Hispanics’ economic clout will rise from $222 billion in 1990, to $504 billion in 2000, to $686 billion in 2004, and to $992 billion in 2009.”
“The most recent Consumer Expenditure Survey indicates that Hispanic consumers spent in total only about 84 percent as much as the average non-Hispanic consumer and spent a much higher proportion of their income on goods and services—95.2 percent for Hispanics versus 85.9 percent for non-Hispanics.”
“Despite their lower average income levels, Hispanic households spent more on groceries, footwear, men’s and boys clothing, children’s clothing, gasoline and motor oil, and household textiles. Compared to the non-Hispanic population, Hispanics spent about the same proportion of their total outlays on restaurants, alcoholic beverages, housekeeping supplies, furniture, appliances, women’s and girls’ clothing, public transportation, and personal care products and services.”
“Correctly informed”, there’s tremendous a difference between effectively administering a justice system that upholds the rule of law, and gutting that rule of law by encouraging foreign nationals to violate our immigration laws so they can receive taxpayer-funded benefits. Our justice system is designed to deter lawlessness, you seem to want to encourage it.
Our justice system is designed to deter lawlessness, you seem to want to encourage it.
If you really want to get into it I could give you a long tirade about how our current jail system does nothing but propagate crime and is not an actual deterrence, but I digress…
I do not seek to encourage lawlessness, and no where in any of my postings have I said that. If you can point out where I have, you can correct me.
I have simply said that there needs to be some sort of compromise given the economic realities in our nation right now. Simply shipping them all back where they came from is not a viable solution.
You come up with a better one than tightened border control and amnesty for the ones who are already here, thus allowing our government to tax their earnings, and I’m all ears….
It is also a fact that these illegals are sending their wages home to support families left behind. They are not, for the most part, spending much in the United States. Turning apartments and houses into dormitories with every spare inch used for sleeping is a good example.
It is also a fact that many of our prisoners are illegals who are being fully supported by American taxpayers.
Illegals have absolutely no say as to how the United States “wants” to take care of it’s citizens. The arrogance and entitlement of “illegals” is beyond amazement. These hardworking illegals should return to their own countries and fix them.
Correctly Informed, I thought you were going to offer a legitimate source for your hispanic buying power — HispanicTrending is hardly such a source — purely propaganda — offer some U.S. Government statistics. There is absolutely no way hispanics are outspending American citizens. Now if you are saying they are spending more at Wal-Mart while the average U.S. citizen is covering their free medical, housing subsidies, and free food and school programs, then just maybe.
I thought you were going to offer a legitimate source for your hispanic buying power — HispanicTrending is hardly such a source — purely propaganda — offer some U.S. Government statistics.
Perhaps you should read a little farther into the article than just the title, and you would see the actual study was conducted by the Selig Center at UGA.
Here is their link: http://www.selig.uga.edu/
And here is the link to the actual report: http://www.myjaxchamber.com/upload/Multicult_Econ_2009.pdf
Because careful, it’s a PDF and I know sometimes those tend to freeze browsers.
Selig is hardly a propaganda machine.
A lot of this seems like classic misunderstandings and overreactions to things that aren’t going to kill us, since they never have in the past. Most of us of European descent didn’t have ancestors who had to resort to illegal immigration for one simple reason: there was no such thing. If you made it here, you were an American. When the Irish got off the boats, they faced angry mobs, army recruiters and political operatives looking to take advantage of them, but it was recognized that just the act of coming here was not illegal. Also, consider the wet-foot/dry-foot rules for Cubans. If a Cuban makes it here, they’re almost guaranteed citizenship with asylum. I’m not a Herndon, Manassas or Reston resident. I live in Alexandria, specifically Route 1 corridor/Hybla Valley. Are there illegal immigrants around? Probably, but I don’t check IDs. Have I had problems with some crime in my neighborhood? Yes. The ethnicity of those guys? Caucasian. I note we’re talking about Hispanic illegal immigrants, but China, Ireland (still), and former Soviet Bloc countries contribute millions of illegal immigrants every year, but there is little noise made about them.
When America allowed immigration, we grew. We adapted, we innovated and became the envy of all nations. We recognized that together we were stronger than we were separately. And while there does need to be some kind of tracking for immigrants, why can’t it be large tables at the border processing people? We have non-citizens serving in the armed forces, and that’s a problem. They’re fighting for rights so many here would deny them. There are many people here who because of nationality have a harder time getting citizenship. A co-worker of Pakistani origin who had been here, legally, for 20 years had to fight for five years to get citizenship, even to the point of having to call his senator for help. The processing system is broken and re-examining why we so keen on kicking people wouldn’t be such a bad idea. Criminals, terrorists, violent offenders should be considered a problem, but if a person is labeled a terrorist in their home country because they’re fighting for American ideals, we used to give them funding. Often followed by a plane ride State side.
We’re all immigrants, we all had bad histories in this country and we’re all wealthy enough to have internet service. Now, lot of other people want that chance and while we would give them success, we should be willing to give them that chance.
Midnight
So, illegals do not kill? Funny over half the murderers last year in Prince William County were illegals.
There is no comparison to illegals today and the immigrants of 100 years ago. Those were put through a process, health checked, etc. They were not considered Americans just by getting off the boat.
The Cuban situation again has nothing to do with illegals. I agree all should be sent back.
People born in America are not immigrants.
Of course we have illegals from many different Countries, but you supporters of illegals only want to talk about hispanics that happen to be illegal. Has the COMPOST or any other MSM outlet focused on anything but hispanics that happen to be illegal? I don’t think so. That is the fault of the illegal alien supporters for the stereotype of all illegals are hispanic.
We should give anything to people who are criminals, do not respect the rule of law and spit on the tradition of this Nation.
“informed”
At what point would you not consider amnesty for certain illegals? Would you grant amnesty to rapists? Murderers? Those that have stolen identities?
Illegals make up less then 5% of the work force, I hardly think they are a vital part of the economy.
“Correctly”
I suppose when illegals are not paying taxes, they most likely have spending money. When illegals are overcrowding homes, I suppose they have money to spend.
But the same can be said of everyone who engages in such criminal activity.
However, if you are trying to say illegals are an economic plus to the Nation, you are plain wrong.
Given the high number of illegals that have lost their homes, I say they are just as much if not more so to have overextended.
Citizen,
I have gone through great pains to provide reputable sources for my facts. Please do the same, because until you do, I’m going to consider you someone who hears something on the street and repeats it as the gospel truth online. This does nothing but perpetuates misinformation of the uneducated masses, who clamor for a solution when they know nothing about the reality of the situation.
“Correctly”
You do realize people who are in jail are paying a price for their criminal activity. How is picking up the tab for illegals at hospitals, paying more for insurance, and paying more in local taxes because illegals are not paying their fair share, making illegals pay a price for their law breaking?
CitizenofManassas
So, illegals do not kill? Funny over half the murderers last year in Prince William County were illegals.
Which means half were done by people who have lived here all their lives. And I never said they never kill. Stop putting words in people’s mouths, it’s not nice. Also, do you have a reference for this, I tried looking it up myself but came up short.
There is no comparison to illegals today and the immigrants of 100 years ago. Those were put through a process, health checked, etc. They were not considered Americans just by getting off the boat.
Read history better. A lot of them weren’t, even most of them weren’t. It wasn’t Ellis Island for everyone. My family came through Boston, New Jersey as well as New York. Hell, a lot of people came across the Canadian border. Before there were such rigorous checks for health and quarantine. Even at Ellis Island (and other places), if they got off the boat, they were Americans with all attending rights and privileges. (see Thomas Gallagher’s “Paddy’s Lament” among many other fine sources.)
The Cuban situation again has nothing to do with illegals. I agree all should be sent back.
People born in America are not immigrants.
Well, at what point do they stop? If immigrants have children here, are those children legal? Are their children? We’re all the children of immigrants and it is a part of who we are and a noble part of this history of this country. The first country who citizens all volunteered for it not on basis of noble birth, but on noble ideals like Freedom, Justice and Liberty. You know, the things we all talk about on the 4th of July. The Cuban situation does have some influence and comment on the immigration situation in general. After all, under the law, which you claim to hold dearer than any of us, if every illegal immigrant came through Cuba and made it dry foot, they’d be legal.
Of course we have illegals from many different Countries, but you supporters of illegals only want to talk about hispanics that happen to be illegal. Has the COMPOST or any other MSM outlet focused on anything but hispanics that happen to be illegal? I don’t think so. That is the fault of the illegal alien supporters for the stereotype of all illegals are hispanic.
Ok, I’m gonna ask nicely. PLEASE stop projecting arguments on to me. Most media outlets only focus on illegal Hispanics because that’s what people expect. After all, when people talk about day labor sites, few consider there are workers who are legal just without a steady company. I worked like that in home remodeling myself when I was younger.
We should give anything to people who are criminals, do not respect the rule of law and spit on the tradition of this Nation.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume you meant we should NOT give anything. . . And I sure hope you’ve never given money to anyone who has sped since after, they’re not showing respect for laws. Or anyone who has cheated on taxes. Or anyone who hasn’t gotten car inspections on time. And what is the tradition of this nation other than “hey, you wanna come here and work, come on over”? Some radical people had the theory all of us were created equal with certain inalienable rights, not that only Americans had rights and everyone else could take a flying leap. The tradition of this nation has been nobody is given anything, but everyone has a chance to work and grab for it.
You do realize people who are in jail are paying a price for their criminal activity. How is picking up the tab for illegals at hospitals, paying more for insurance, and paying more in local taxes because illegals are not paying their fair share, making illegals pay a price for their law breaking?
I suggest you read this recent study conducted by The Udall Center for Studies in Public Policy, at the University of Arizona.
It is one of the only studies out which weights how much immigrants of legal, and non-legal status as well the costs. The results will probably surprise you because they found that (in Arizona at least) immigrants contributed more to the economy then their overall cost.
It’s also interesting to note a few other things that haven’t been mentioned, such as this from Shikha Dalmia at the Reason Foundation:
Until a full-scale study on the United States has been done regarding the benefits that illegal immigrants receive vs what they put in, I’m going to reserve my judgement.
“Finally your sense of entitlement is perhaps the most disgusting sort.”
Quite the contrary Incorrectly Informed. If it were not for entitlements, illegal aliens could not survive and would have returned home long ago.
It is the apologists such as you who are bogging down the system and making it difficult for people like your Columbian friend to achive his ultimate goal of legal status.
Because you and yours have pushed illegal aliens to EXPECT tax funded benefits and services entitlements (to which they were never entitled), rather than carry their own weight, you have only yourself to blame for the outcome.
This is what happens when you stick you nose in where it doesn’t belong, while thumbing your nose at the law - YOU created the feelings of animosity against illegal aliens Incorrectly Informed because it’s people like you who made them the liars, cheats and thieves they are.
junes_Reston,
What do you know, and I thought the entire time I was just following the words our wise founding fathers that said…
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware that the Bill of Rights only applied to people born in the states or who jumped through bureaucratic hoops to get here.
Also, junes_Reston, by participating in this conversation, aren’t YOU sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong?
Midnight,
This is what you wrote…
Midnight Ranter said on 4 Apr 2008 at 3:55 pm:
A lot of this seems like classic misunderstandings and overreactions to things that aren’t going to kill us, since they never have in the past.
Where has anyone said Americans do not commit crimes? Again, get your silly liberal relativism out of here. You can talk until you are blue in the face, illegals are criminals, just by the nature of them being here, and they do not belong here. That is why we have immigrants, and that is why illegals are not called immigrants except by their supporters who are trying to play word games and lump everyone in together.
How many illegals are processed through proper immigration channels? Try zero. So again, stop trying to compare what is happening today and what happened 100 years ago or more.
I do not support the “dry” foot issue, and as I said, I would send them all back. How is that being selective about the law?
The media gives us what we want to hear? Ha ha that is pretty funny. No, they do that because they want to make this an issue of race. and not one of law and order.
Again, stop trying to make excuses for people who have broken the law, continue to break the law, and have not redeeming value whatsoever.
Correctly,
Those numbers are very suspect, and course do not include those illegals who work for cash, you know the ones that hang out in parking lots and or work centers.
Just last year, Prince William Hospital spent 15 million dollars on medical care to illegals. It costs almost twice as much to educate an ESL student then it does a non ESL student. Chances are pretty high the majority of ELS students are illegal.
If we have an overcrowded house, with more then one illegal family living in it, and all the families have kids who attend public school, yet that house is only generating one tax bill, how exactly are those illegals paying their fair share?
“correctly”
If you are such a following of the law, why do you support people who spit on that law and spit on the tradition of coming here legally?
The Founding fathers, were speaking to England on behalf of Americans and noone else.
“I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware that the Bill of Rights only applied to people born in the states or who jumped through bureaucratic hoops to get here.”
Correctly Informed, I am surprised that you think the “American Bill of Rights,” the “Bill of Rights for the United States” applies to everyone! Illegals are NOT citizens of the United States and are not entitled to anything other than arrest and deportation. period. They are breaking OUR laws and will continue to break the law until apprehended. By the way, this, too, is a burden for the American taxpayer.
CoC - Did you read my report re homicides in Herndon? You know, the place where murderers run free.
Greg L. - Will you tell us about your source re financing in the Herndon election campaign?
A lot of “he said, she said”, “I assume”, “I don’t live there but”, blah, blah, blah. Last time I checked illegal immigration was against the law. No wiggle room. An absolute. I’m sure there are congressmen and senators who read this blog… well guys, when sworn in you pledged to uphold the law. I just finished paying my taxes and this is to you… get to work! This blog should not even be necessary. Do your job! Uphold the law! Chertoff, if you don’t like your job then quit. We’ll get someone who does! Webb, Warner, Wolf, all of you federal government folks, get to work! Do what we hired you for! Do what we are paying you for! Do your job!
Correctly Informed, I am surprised that you think the “American Bill of Rights,” the “Bill of Rights for the United States” applies to everyone!
You’re right, I’m sorry. When the founding fathers wrote the American Bill of Rights it only pertained to white land owning males.
Considering how we have grown from that and demand it for ourselves, how could you possibly say that those rights are not for everyone on God’s green earth? Do you believe by virtue of your birth place you are denied rights that we take for granted? For shame.
I would have thought we as a nation would have progressed from that kind of thought - clearly I was wrong.
Karla Homolka - Hmmm, very strange handle.
“About.com” site has an article about a Karla Homolka titled “Child Rapist, Torturer, and Killer.” “One of Canada’s most infamous female convicts.”
That couldn’t be the Karla Homolka who writes here, could it?
Citizen,
How can you say my numbers are suspect, when I have provided sources for all of my statistics, and you have YET to provide a link/source for any of yours… even after Midnightranter told you that a quick Google search provided no help backing your claims up…
So your saying that because we have “grown from that and demand it for ourselves,” that United States citizens should embrace and support all illegals?!!!!
Nice try!!!
Illegals are criminals, plan and simple. Once they made the decision to enter the United States illegally — breaking our laws — they became criminals and should be treated as such.
I agree with Karla Homolka — it is time that ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS DEMAND that our representatives begin to enforce the law.
American - Did you read my comment about “Karla Homolka”?
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 5:06 pm:
NOTE THE WORDS EACH CITIZEN……
Looking at the ten amendments that make up the Bill of Rights, it is easy to see what the Americans valued enough to enshrine as central principles in the law of the land. Each demonstrates what the founders of the American nation believed each CITIZEN was due under the law. Each of the ten will be examined below. All of these are expressing ethical concerns by expressing what is just.
http://www.michaellorenzen.com/billofrights.html
just news said on 4 Apr 2008 at 7:06 am:
Level Headed
Let me remind you that Herndon has one of highest latino gang concentration in Northern Virginia and only Maryland can rival you. It was your area’s . . .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Obviously you are “observing from afar” and soaking up much of the slander that emanates from blogs such as this and other “Minute-mentality” enclaves.
We live here. So do many other highly-educated people. A broad range of people live in the Town of Herndon. A number of us moved here to work in professional positions at the USGS headquarters in Reston. There are more and less affluent in Herndon, as well as in Vienna and Fairfax.
FYI, which you certainly SHOULD know if you are so well-informed about OUR town, is that the Herndon Police Chief was a prime mover in establishing the Regional Gang Task Force that pre-empted establishment of gangs in this town.
I notice that you use the British spelling of “defense” as well as misrepresenting what many of us defend. Again, it is sad that people soak up the venom and misrepresentations of the internet. It works a lot better to interACT in person.
I had an excellent post, but it was caught by the spam filter because I cited too many sources… so here it is without the cites, and you can google them yourselves…
———————————
Illegals are criminals, plan and simple. Once they made the decision to enter the United States illegally — breaking our laws — they became criminals and should be treated as such.
Okay, I’ll give you that. According to Delegate Bob Marshall illegal immigration to this country is a Class 2 Misdemeanor.
Let me show you examples of other Class 2 Misdemeanors. I’m sure you are guilty of at least one, and are willing to accept the complimenting punishment from the state.
1. Possession of a fake ID
2. Driving with a suspended license
3. Failure to file proper tax records for cigarettes
4. Violating state wildlife laws
5. “Unreasonable refusal” of breathalyzer
And finally, my favorite one:
Aggressive Driving
Remember that next time you’re late to a meeting and you cut someone off on the road. In the eyes of the law, you are no better than the illegal immigrants that you spend so much time calling common criminals.
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 6:12 pm: Correctly Informed, I am surprised that you think the “American Bill of Rights,” the “Bill of Rights for the United States” applies to everyone! You’re right, I’m sorry. When the founding fathers wrote the American Bill of Rights it only pertained to white land owning males.
“Considering how we have grown from that and demand it for ourselves, how could you possibly say that those rights are not for everyone on God’s green earth?”
- Our immigration law say this – If you want to be outraged look to Mexico’s immigration laws, then have a little episode of acid reflux.
“Do you believe by virtue of your birth place you are denied rights that we take for granted?
I would have thought we as a nation would have progressed from that kind of thought - clearly I was wrong.”
- No, you weren’t wrong – other advanced countries recognized a huge loop hole like birthright citizenship will draw liars, cheats and thieves who try to abuse the right, like the 12 million (plus) are doing today in our country.
For this reason, they closed their loop holes. Birthright comes with rights (at the age of majority) - but it also comes with responsibilities and restrictions.
We just didn’t catch on soon enough.
It is clear that Correctly Informed does not respect the rule of law.
I respect the rule of law, but I hope if you get pulled over for aggressive driving you take your maximum punishment of 6 months in jail without complaint - because you are asking that these people take the maximum punish for their crime.
Also, for your information, I studied the law at George Mason for four years from excellent professors such as Prince William Assistant Commonwealth Attorneys Richard Conway and James Willett. Where does your knowledge and respect of the law come from?
Listen guys, in all honesty, I’ve just been here all day baiting you because I have little else going on today. However, I find it a little disturbing how you choose to sway people to your side.
Greg, on a post above you said… The neighborhood in the environs of the “official day laborer center” was turned into a suburban slum, drunken illegal aliens killed residents in motor vehicle accidents, and these impacts resulted in an unprecedented wave of public opposition. The day laborer center was a disaster.
This is pure slander, and if it was posted in a newspaper or any creditable source besides your blog, a retraction would have to be made. I find it deplorable, especially since I attended Herndon High with Rob Passarelli, that you would use his fathers death to further your cause.
Do you know that Jose Santos Sibrian Espinoza, the man responsible was someone who sought work at the Day Labor Center? Because I don’t - and the incident happened nowhere near the Day Labor Center. If you want to rail about the fact that he should have been deported long before he was - then fine, I agree with you… but connecting it to the Day Labor Center and using the memory of a well known and loved member of the Herndon community to assert your own selfish views is deplorable.
To “Just News” who incorrectly posted the machete attacks and gang violence to Herndon… why do you seek to give our town such a bad name? What do you stand to gain by (incorrectly I might add) claiming such violence took place on our watch? All it does is make your argument weaker because you rely on shock tactics to hopefully sway someone to your side.
To the rest of you, especially Junes_Restons, your attacks of me on this board have been humorous to say the least. You are exactly why nothing ever gets solved on this issue, because it becomes “us” vs. “them”. There is no room for middle ground or intelligent discussion on the matter.
In fact, your hatred towards anyone who espouses a different view reminds me of the abortion debate… you seem to think that if someone is not all for shipping all of them away from the country tomorrow, they must be pro anyone coming over the boarder, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
In general, your posts are based on emotion and fear instead of logical thought. You come off as a group of racist, intolerant people, and it’s a shame.
For what it’s worth, I attended Herndon High School and afterward, George Mason University. I graduated with a BS in Administration of Justice, and my senior thesis (independent study) paper was titled, “How Immigration Law Hinders Local Enforcement and Community Policing”. It included a case study on what was happening in Herndon at the time, as well as an analysis of immigration on the national level.
I received an A+ on the 36 page report, and I realized from my work that the issue was no where near as cut and dry as either side makes it out to be.
Maybe if you stopped to re-read everything said here today, you would stop and realize that there is no black and white, yet a multitude of shades of gray.
THEN, finally, some progress can be made.
“Correctly”
You have no respect for the law, if you did you would not support criminals.
Do you support murderers? Do you support child killers and rapists?
America is a great Nation because of the rule of law, the Bill of Rights, etc. There is a reason why America has a net number of immigrants every year. People want to come here, rather then to leave. I hardly doubt the same can be said of a large number of Nations, particularly those that supply the highest number of illegals.
What separates us from those Nations is that we do have the rule of law, and for the most part criminals are punished and generally do not have corrupt politicians and judges and police departments, like say for example Mexico.
If we simply say to the illegals, we will ignore your law breaking and reward you with Citizenship, what message does that send?
BTW, if one is caught speeding and pays the fine, does that give them the right to speed from that point on without having to worry about getting caught again? Of course not. Yet, you are willing to overlook the criminal conduct of illegals and reward them with the very thing they broke the law— being in America.
The penalty for illegal entry is deportation, which really is not that harsh, when you consider the illegal alien should not be here in the first place.
What happens when you violate the rules of a movie theater, you are kicked out.
Your numbers are suspect because they do not include the money earned by illegals who are paid in cash. So, without those numbers being included, and really can that even be estimated, you numbers are not just incorrect, but the entire basis is wrong since it does not include cash only earnings.
Your numbers are suspect because they do not include the money earned by illegals who are paid in cash. So, without those numbers being included, and really can that even be estimated, you numbers are not just incorrect, but the entire basis is wrong since it does not include cash only earnings.
And everything you have said has been suspect because you are comparing apples to oranges, (how something as heinous as rape and murder can logically be compared to what amounts to a Class 2 felony is beyond me) as well as not citing your sources this entire time posting on this blog.
Nowhere in my posts have I said I supported people coming over the boarder illegally. Nowhere in my posts have I said I have a disrespect for the law in this country. In fact, nowhere in my posts have I said half the things you have been claiming all day I have been saying.
If you want to spend your time calling me names and questioning my adherence to the Constitution and the law of this land, that is fine with me… however I would suggest your time could be better spent by lobbying your elected official to push to strengthen our boarders, as well as provide some sort of amnesty for the ones who are already here who are hard working members of our economy.
The simple fact of the matter is, whether you like it or not, they are here, and we have to deal with them the best we can…
“Correctly”
Maybe I missed your post regarding what illegals you would like to keep and which ones you would like to be deported. So, can you please post again, or for the first time? Thanks.
You seem to have a blanket support for illegals without regard to their level of law breaking. So, that is why I asked if you supported other types of criminals.
For example in the last two weeks, in Prince William County, we have had an illegal charged with raping a 3 year old. We had an illegal drinking and driving who almost killed a motorist and then attempted to flee the scene. Do you consider them to be just hard working illegals?
Last year in the County illegals were responsible for 5 of the 9 murders. Those stories can be found in various editions of the MJM and COMPOST.
The fact you want to provide amnesty for illegals, is in fact de facto support for illegals.
That is right, illegals are here and the way to deal with them is the same way to deal with any criminal, find them, charge them and then melt out the punishment. Which in the case of illegals is to deport them.
My eyes are bleeding after reading all of this nonsense. Line after line of blabber, broken only by Krustis’s pleas for someone to pay attention to her witless interjections. Please, everyone, turn off the computer and go for a walk!
Citizen,
I keep googling for these statistics that you keep saying, and I can’t find them - yet you keep saying them. Unless you plan on citing your sources, I’m not going to believe a single statistic you throw out.
Now, in regards to amnesty, you seem to believe that the solution is to become a vigilante and find every one who has ever come into this country illegally and deport them, because after all they are criminals.
Would it surprise you know that some of the more famous people in America are also, or at one time were, illegal immigrants? I give you Cesar Millan and The Governator (who many believe at some point violated the terms of his visa).
I’m not saying that murders, rapists, and all around bad guys should be given amnesty in this country. I’m saying Juan Don who came here to help his family and live the American Dream, who is a hard worker, and is otherwise a law abiding citizen, should be.
Your argument is starting to bore me because you are saying the same drivel over and over again. You still haven’t answered my previous question - if you were pulled over for aggressive driving, would you take your 6 months in jail? Hell, if you were arrested for anything, would you automatically take the harshest sentence because you broke the law? Why do you expect these people to do what you wouldn’t do yourself.
Your vast generalizations cast an unfair light on the people who are otherwise hard workers and just trying to better themselves and their families, and I for one am sick of it. Try to be a little compassionate to your fellow man - life is too short to be wasting on such unadulterated hate.
“Correctly”
First off you have ignored many of my questions.
Second, I never said anything about being a vigilante, I expect law enforcement and the Government to do their jobs.
I don’t care if a person is famous or not, if one is an illegal, they need to be punished. I’m surprised you engage in class warfare.
So, what would you do with the rapists etc, who are illegal?
If Don Juan, is being paid in cash, not paying taxes, or is using a stolen identity, driving without a license, without insurance and is working, he is not otherwise law abiding.
Read and weep.
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/crime/article/prostitution_evidence_found/5689/
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/crime/article/officer_injured_in_car_accident/5498/
http://www.nbc4.com/news/15725315/detail.html?rss=dc&psp=news
Here are some more local stories.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030800009.html
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0308/501358.html
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1354085
http://www.borderfirereport.net/latest/border-patrol-apprehends-train-jumpers-in-texas.html
http://www.nbc4.com/news/14971735/detail.html
Here are some more stories.
According to the Potomac News, Christian Molina, an illegal alien from El Salvador plead guilty to the murder of Ronald Hollingsworth, explaining that the reason he strangled him to death was because he misunderstood the term “homo sapien” during a discussion about evolution, thinking Hollingsworth had called him a homosexual. BVBL readers in a discussion of this matter on another thread have identified numerous criminal cases for a person with this same name that suggests that we had an opportunity to catch this illegal alien while he was still a petty criminal, before he graduated to being a murderer. Had the police department’s pending policy been in place, perhaps this criminal illegal alien would have been deported, rather than allowed to remain and kill an American citizen.
Here’s the run-down on the cases that may be attributable to this individual:
Misdemeanor assault (nolle prossed Sept 2007)
Obstruction of justice (guilty Oct 2007)
Identity Theft (case pending)
Involuntary Manslaughter (case pending)
Grand larceny (guilty Feb 2007)
Failure to display a license (guilty, Feb 2007)
Seat Belt Violation (status unknown)
http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=66191&GID=DCwerji3EVJLorCGcersjdKpMDiy2LScfuOwryq7xAo%3D
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/26/AR2007102602522_pf.html
Regarding the hypothetical Juan Don “Otherwise law abiding” would pretty much mean he’s not doing any of those things since he is, besides the fact that he entered this country illegally.
I used those two as famous examples of people who were at one point illegal immigrants who have gone on to do great things in our country, probably because they were not deported.
With the ones who do commit serious felony offenses, I would deport them.
Also, will you PLEASE stop saying these people don’t pay any taxes? Do they have a special gas pump that they goto not to pay the gas tax? Is there a hidden register at the grocery store I’m not aware of? Seriously? I’d like to know! Because that means if they are paid in cash, and they go purchase milk, they are being TAXED on that milk. So they are at least paying SOME taxes.
Read and weep? Are we in first grade? Yes - you have cited three incidences in PWC where illegals were involved in the commission of a crime. I could go and produce even more where naturalized or native born citizens were involved in some sort of crime. You still didn’t back up your statistics.
As the law stands now, there is no wiggle room for illegals and their punishment, since in fact anything short of deportation is not removing them from their criminal action, since they will still be in the Country, which of course is where they are not allowed to be.
So, again your attempts to compare illegals to speeders is not just wrong is pretty silly.
Mr. Anon 9:57 pm - “… witless interjections…” Bull! Since April 3 at 5:47 pm (the 4th comment on this thread) I have been trying to find out from GREG L. where he got his information regarding the financing of Harlon Reece’s campaing AND the statement that Nachman has committed to a budget that is ten times what is normal for a Town election.
Those were his statements, and I feel he ought to tell his readers where and how he got his information, because it sounds as if these two men are doing something shady and sub rosa.
As for CITIZEN OF MANASSAS stating that rapists and murderers run free on the streets of Herndon; I got the following statistics from the Herndon police department:
During the past 10 years, 1998 - present, 7 homicide cases (9 victims) were investigated. One case was justifiable (self defense); one from 2000 claimed 3 victims.
Neither Greg L. nor Citizen has responded or commented in ANY way. - If what I have written here is witless, then so be it!
This thread started out about the Herndon election campaign, remember?
“correctly”
If an illegal is paid in cash in the local parking lot, how are they paying taxes on that money?
If an illegal lives in a house that is overcrowded with other illegals and there is only one tax bill for that house, those illegals are not paying their fair share of real estate taxes. It gets worse if the multiple families have kids in public schools, where they are using services far above what they are paying in real estate taxes, which is a major funding for Local Governments.
It is against the law to work in the United States without authorization. SO IN ADDITION to breaking immigration laws, and you already admitted Don Juan was working(so that is two laws he is breaking) If he is using stolen ID, that is a third law, etc. SO as you can see if an illegal is working they are not otherwise law abiding because at a minimum they are breaking two laws if not more.
I cited more then three stories, and made my points with stats, that you have chosen to ignore. Again, why are you trying to compare illegals, who are not supposed to be here to Americans? Besides where is anyone saying Americans do not commit crimes?
Krustis,
That is nice and all. However, given that we do not know who illegals are, how are we to know there are not MS-13 members who live in Herndon who have killed? Just because they have not been caught by the police is no reason to think there are none.
As I’ve said before, we will take back our neighborhoods, our county, our Commonwealth, and our Nation…. One way or another.
As the law stands now, there is no wiggle room for illegals and their punishment, since in fact anything short of deportation is not removing them from their criminal action, since they will still be in the Country, which of course is where they are not allowed to be.
You obviously know nothing about the law.
The US Supreme Court in De Canas v. Bica, 424 U.S. 351 (1976) stated “[The] power to regulate immigration is unquestionably exclusively a federal power.”
Now, going by the Federal Code….
Under Paragraph (a), Title 8, Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry By Alien”, any citizen of any country other than the United States who
1. Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
2. Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
3. Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has violated criminal and civil law and can be fined and imprisoned for up to 6 months.
Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. In addition, persons apprehended while attempting to enter the United States illegally after committing previous crimes in the United States are indictable for the attempt to illegally re-enter the country.
Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.
Do you see deportation in that? I don’t. Yes - deportation is one of the things that the Federal government can choose to do. No - it is not their only recourse, and to claim so would be ignorant of the actual law of the land.
“Those numbers are very suspect, and course do not include those illegals who work for cash”
Or the ones who work as “independent contractors”.
Here is a list to the number of murders in PW County last year. It gives a break down of the types of murders.
One was gang related(by an illegal) Three of the domestic killings were committed by an illegal, and one other was committed by an illegal. So a total of the nine, five were committed by illegals.
I linked the stories of the murders by illegals in the above posts.
http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/007665.pdf You have to go done about half way to find the stats.
I cited more then three stories, and made my points with stats, that you have chosen to ignore.
No - you cited three sources under your “Read and Weep” comment.
You spoke of statistics without offering relevant peer-reviewed studies to back your claims. Hell, you didn’t even offer newspaper articles in which you got your statistics from. You didn’t offer anything, other than the fact that you said they were the truth.
Sorry - I don’t take your word for it, as I haven’t asked you to take mine since for every post I have made on here regarding anything that I provided to back up my side of the argument, I have linked to other documents that clearly show what I am saying.
I hope some kid in college comes on here and finds this though, I’ve pretty much compiled the basis for a decent paper here.
COM -
Sorry, I apologize, I missed one of your posts between the first one and the third one you did a row. So you did cite more than I originally claimed.
:-/ That is what I get for being eager to respond.
Citizen 11:27 pm - Rather an amazing statement IMO. How are we to know if ANYBODY who has not been taken into custody has been, or will be, a murderer? As long as they aren’t doing the murdering now and here, we’ll never know, will we?
Until police nabs them and they don’t bother me or my family or other Herndon citizens, I’m not going to go around worrying about it. You seem to have become totally paranoid.
Krutis,
No, I am not paranoid at all. I was just pointing out that by supporting illegals, it is very likely Herndon will become a haven for them again, and chances are good among them will be gang members who engage in killings and other serious crimes as has been pointed out here and even in the MJM and COMPOST.
Recall the illegal gang member from Montgomery County who was given a slap on the wrist up there, and who once in PW County was quickly taken into custody by the Po Po. Recall, Montgomery County has a work center that is publicly funded. It stands to reason that illegals will go to where they are welcomed without fear of being taken into custody.
jfk said on 4 Apr 2008 at 9:17 am:
Your slur against Manassas earlier is sad. Too bad you have to sink to this level. Folks can disagree without being disagreable. Hopefully, time and maturity will help you to understand that.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
All I said was that BEFORE the current “enforcer” council, previous Town of Herndon councils established a “Definition of family” ordinance after many, many, public meetings and much public input – and it was carefully crafted to LEGALLY SUPPORT making overcrowding cases stick — to resolve the bad situations.
Slurring Manassas? I was a bit put out at the writer of several radical slurs on Herndon indicating we did NOT do what we actually DID. i thought that was unfortunate . . . and said that he’s a good writer and could’ve helped make a better “families” ordinance to help Manassas combat their overcrowding problems. It wasn’t intended to “slur” Manassas, but to point out that an ordinance didn’t work and the guy who enjoyed slurring Herndon could’ve helped.
As for “gaining maturity” – gotta laugh, because with my decade-count, if I’m not mature by now, it’s hopeless!
“gotta laugh, because with my decade-count, if I’m not mature by now, it’s hopeless!”
“Finally, I’ll say this… as a female in her early twenties who has lived in both Herndon and Manassas”
I know people who gained a bit of maturity between their early 20s and when they turned 30.
A Correctly Informed Resident said on 4 Apr 2008 at 8:58 pm:
Greg, on a post above you said… The neighborhood in the environs of the “official day laborer center” was turned into a suburban slum, drunken illegal aliens killed residents in motor vehicle accidents, and these impacts resulted in an unprecedented wave of public opposition. The day laborer center was a disaster.
This is pure slander, and if it was posted in a newspaper or any creditable source besides your blog, a retraction would have to be made. I find it deplorable, especially since I attended Herndon High with Rob Passarelli, that you would use his fathers death to further your cause.
Do you know that Jose Santos Sibrian Espinoza, the man responsible was someone who sought work at the Day Labor Center? Because I don’t - and the incident happened nowhere near the Day Labor Center. If you want to rail about the fact that he should have been deported long before he was - then fine, I agree with you… but connecting it to the Day Labor Center and using the memory of a well known and loved member of the Herndon community to assert your own selfish views is deplorable.
==================
Your law professor would have been very disappointed with you if he followed some of your “legal opinions” on this forum.
Jose Santos Sibrian Espinoza and his brother were regulars at the day labor center. They were among the 70% to 80% who were rarely hired out. His brother was a witness to the murder, failed to report the crime, yet was shielded by H&H [a tax funded program contractor] when the police stopped by the center to question him.
With your obvious “compassion” for the illegals, of course you would find any reference to such a deplorable act a bone of contention and try to dismiss it. It disputes everything you’ve posted up to now.
The Day Labor Center was a failed experiment forced down the throats of Herndon’s voters. The intent [and proven to be so] was to draw illegal aliens to Herndon. O’Reilly missed the mark when he presupposed only the “good guys” would be drawn to the center. Because of this he [and members of the council] fought long and hard to suppress 287(g) which would have saved Mr Passarelli’s life by identifying Espinoza as a criminal with an outstanding felony fugitive warrant and removing him from the community before he had a chance to run him down Mr Passarelli in the street that fateful morning.
This is one of the primary reasons the Mayor and most of the council were ousted. Although you would very much like to dismiss this as insignificant, when a friend and neighbor is taken from this world so needlessly, people don’t forget. They want to ensure future Mayors and Councils represent the people they are elected to serve rather than use them as stepping stone for future political or other aspirations. O’Reilly used the town as a stepping stone for his own personal aspirations.
It is for this reason I support the current council and Mayor and will help fund their campaigns, even though I may not vote in the elections. Although I live in Reston, I have friends in Herndon. Over the years, I have shared their pain and frustration under the O’Reilly reign as neighborhoods were degraded by the boarding houses in neighborhoods that brought blight, violence and crime to the town as it had not seen before. I saw sidewalks and driveways spray painted with slurs by apologists such as yourself [cowards who operate under pseudonyms].
The “piece de resistance”, however was the day the day labor center closed and the righteous ladies representing the Christian and Political factions of Reston Interfaith graciously posed for the photographers with their infamous one-finger salute.
Ironically, when the day labor center closed its doors, not one of these righteous church ladies could convince even one church to set aside a space in their parking lot or in a meeting hall for the day laborers. Even the churches recognized that any incentive to encourage illegal aliens to take haven in Herndon was not good for them or the town. And all churches in Fairfax County have adopted this same attitude.
Since then, Herndon is returning to some semblance of what it used to be [prior to the O’Reilly reign]. Most Herndon voters don’t share your “memories” and they definitely don’t want to take a step backwards.
MP Resident,
I don’t know who Level-Headed is, but it’s not me. I think it’s pretty safe to assume that Level-Headed is significantly older than me.
Level Headed
you obviously keep thinking that I have never visited the environs of Herndon, but this is where you “afar” comment makes you look ridiculous. I have lived in Herndon, and one of the reason why i left was because it was drab, overpopulated, lacking parks and vegetation and generally lacking in any discernible charm. It may surprise you to know that a lot of people left Fairfax County, not because of cheaper prices but to have acreage, something which in Herndon has been erased from memory.
In addition, you have just made my argument by asserting that your chief of Police was one of the first in the nation to create a gang task force. If there were no gangs or gang violence, why would there be a need for such a response? Indeed, the gang activity and large presence in Herndon is a case study, together with LA’s, which is carefully studied by several agencies because of the high mobility and networking ability of the members and because of notable criminal cases in that area.
In fact there is not much difference between Manassas and Herndon except maybe the tree count and the ethnic diversity, the latter being much more pronounced in Herndon. But I will take the parks, trees and lakes of PW before the congestion, dirt and chaotic overpopulation of Herndon or (gulp) Arlington.
But I suggest that before you go spouting off about other cities’ citizens that you take a sniff at your own backside. I find it entertaining that you and other FC citizens take umbrage at our talking of your town, when you insult the citizens of Manassas or PWC.
If there were no gangs or gang violence, why would there be a need for such a response?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Chief Toussaint is the head of the NORTHERN VIRGINIA Regional Gang Task Force. It includes areas such as Alexandria, Arlington, Falls Church, Chantilly, Leesburg, AND Manassas. In fact, it has always been that way, and was I believe, championed by Frank Wolf.
Indeed, the gang activity and large presence in Herndon is a case study, together with LA’s, which is carefully studied by several agencies because of the high mobility and networking ability of the members and because of notable criminal cases in that area.
The only notable case I think of in the Herndon area was the unfortunate bike-by that happened in 2004. However, if you have more cases to show to me - you are more than welcome to do so. Just make sure you have your facts straight, as we have already established you incorrectly attributed the machete slayings to Herndon.
But I suggest that before you go spouting off about other cities’ citizens that you take a sniff at your own backside.
Perhaps you should take your own advice in this case. I was not able to find any mention of the study you speak of between LA and Herndon on JSTOR, and you would think I would. You incorrectly claim violence in Herndon that happened in another city, yet complain when someone saying anything about Manassas.
I too, have lived in Manassas because it was close to class, and the prices were cheap. I guess I don’t know where you live, but in MY time in Manassas I found it just as congested (especially on 234 or RT 28), just as overpopulated and there were just as many parks, trees and lakes. They really aren’t that different at all - expect you guys have Nissan Pavilion out there, which let me tell you - I couldn’t even leave my house on a summer Friday night if I wanted to when I lived out there.
We both have bars downtown, Jimmy’s is like Mackey’s and Ice House is like City Grille, we both have our own Town Hall and court houses, we both managed to stay as a town or city and we both do EXCELLENT firework displays on the Fourth of July. And finally, we both face the serious issue of over population from the Hispanic community - be them legal or illegal.
Herndon and Manassas are NOT so different. The only difference is, you don’t see a Herndon blogger going to write a post on his blog with contains inflammatory half-truths and unsubstantiated claims regarding Manassas’s elections. At least I haven’t.
Instead of all this ridiculous infighting, maybe we should work together to solve our problems.
And oh yeah, I’m sure you all were not happy about the fact that I called Manassas “Manass-hole” and “Dum-asses” before. I’m not going to apologize, because in my age group we give nicknames to everywhere we live. Dum-assas got it’s name from the sign on 95, where it says Dumfries / Manassas… We call Leesburg “Sleesburg” (coming north from Maryland there’s actually a sign pointing to go South on 15 where it actually says “S Leesburg”), Herndon is Herndonia (cause going downtown is like a trip back in time) or Hernandez (obvious reasoning), Ashburn is Cashburn (it’s were the wealthy go!), Richmond is the RVA, Woodbridge is Hoodbridge (all we had to do was change a letter there!) and the list goes on…. it has nothing to do about disrespect, and everything to do with the fact that we’re able to laugh about where we bounce to and from.
MS-13 Gang Member Guilty of Federal Charges in N.Va. Slaying
Osmin Heriberto Alfaro-Fuentes admitted that he was involved in the May 2004 slaying of Jose Sandoval, 17, a killing that heightened awareness of the Washington area’s growing problem with such gangs as Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13.
This occurred in the area of Herdnon Parkway. I believe that is in the Town of Herndon; not in Fairfax County or Falls Church. It was prosecuted in Federal Court.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/01/AR2005090102143.html
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/vae/Pressreleases/09-SeptemberPDFArchive/05/20050901alfarofuentesnr.pdf
“correctly”
Thanks. The problem as I see it is too many if not just about every illegal alien supporter/apologist have backed themselves into a corner and cannot get out by claiming illegals are only here to work hard and to raise families that they are otherwise “law abiding” etc.
Or, they will down play the criminal action of the illegals, or attempt to counter Americans commit crime too. Well, ya Americans commit crimes, I don’t believe anyone has claimed that is not the case, so that is a pretty weak argument to use in defense of people who are in affect criminals at all time, since their crime is to be in the Country illegally.
“correctly”
Deportation is going to happen, which is exactly what the 287g program is all about. The Federal Government also has a program where they fly back illegals all the time. Also, what do you think they do with the illegals they catch along the border? They send them back over.
Yes, they may pay a fine and spend time in jail, but the Government is not going to allow them to stay in the Country.
Also, I think it is clear the proper term to use is Alien, not “undocumented” not immigrant, but illegal alien.
Legal PWC Citizen, you referenced the Bike-By I already admitted to.
“I don’t know who Level-Headed is, but it’s not me. I think it’s pretty safe to assume that Level-Headed is significantly older than me.”
Sorry, I did get the correctly informed confused with the level headed.
CoM: I don’t have much time right now so I couldn’t find whatever “Correctly…” statement you are apparently referring to. However, I am sure that “Correctly” supports deporting the types of criminals targeted by the 287(g) program. I don’t know anyone who does not support deporting serious criminals, though some folks insist on apply the blanket term “anti-enforcement” to me and other rational people I know.
Just “for the record”, here is an excerpt from the ICE website:
State and local patrol officers, detectives, investigators and correctional officers working in conjunction with ICE gain: necessary resources and authority TO PURSUE INVESTIGATIONS RELATING TO VIOLENT CRIMES, HUMAN SMUGGLING, GANG/ORGANIZED CRIME ACTIVITY, SEXUAL-RELATED OFFENSES, NARCOTICS SMUGGLING AND MONEY LAUNDERING . . . http://www.ice.gov/partners/287g/Section287_g.htm
I’m citing this because I support their goal. The most common misunderstanding is that when local jurisdictions participate in the 287(g) program, citizens expect the police to arrest and deport every illegal (or suspected illegal) alien.
I just wish we didn’t have to pay for their detention in our jails while ICE gets its act together.
In fact, ICE does not have the funds, personnel, or detention space to grab up everyone and send them back. They don’t even have the means to locate, detain, and deport enough of the serious offenders. Therefore, ICE is relying on local jurisdictions to help detain and deport SERIOUS FELONS (MAJOR crimes) so they won’t be released back onto our streets after serving a jail sentence. FINE.
“level headed”
There are lots of people who do not support the deportation of illegals, all of them. Just last week, the MJM, ran a letter to the editor that complained about the raid at CMC. Of course the letter writer said why should we pick on those “hard working” men. Included in the group of men was at least one who was a convicted felon.
The folks who are associated with MWB spoke out against the 287G program the City of Manassas is in, and they did not single out they support the program only for the “criminal” illegals.
There were a lot of Dems in the Senate who voted to allow Felons to gain Citizenship. So, I think I would tend to not agree with your statement about people wanting to deport the “criminal” illegals.
I’ve worked in Herndon for 6 years and still drive through it on my commute to Reston for the past two years. I must agree that I saw marked improvement at the “informal” day laborer site at the 7-11 and the Super Mercado on Elden and Alabama right around 2005 or so. It was a nice change to go to the Wachovia bank there and not receive lewd comments from some of the men waiting there. They were so bold as to do it even as I was with my husband and a male co-worker. Very disconcerting. Now, I rarely see anyone loitering around and feel a little safer going to the bank alone.
I also shopped at the Kohl’s there in Herndon and noticed the lack of young men loitering around the store in recent months. Again, I feel safer (and please don’t turn this into something racist…I am only 5′1″ and just over 100lbs, so I have legitimate fears about being physically overtaken by anyone; hell, a large dog could knock me down!). The apartment complex on Elden across from the Giant and Kohl’s doesn’t seem to have as many people hanging about, pouring in and out of it. The town has really become quite a nice place to shop or meet a friend for lunch. Kudos to the current mayor and council…hopefully the town residents appreciate all their hard work and re-elect them!