Open Thread
By Greg L | 1 May 2008 | Uncategorized | 69 Comments
This week’s open thread…have at it!
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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From the WaPo, page A15:
Swelling populations and a global tide of immigration will present new security challenges for the United States by straining resources and stoking extremism and civil unrest in distant corners of the globe, CIA Director Michael V. Hayden said in a speech yesterday.
The population surge could undermine the stability of some of the world’s most fragile states, especially in Africa, while in the West, governments will be forced to grapple with ever larger immigrant communities and deepening divisions over ethnicity and race, Hayden said.
Hayden, speaking at Kansas State University, described the projected 33 percent growth in global population over the next 40 years as one of three significant trends that will alter the security landscape in the current century. By 2050, the number of humans on Earth is expected to rise from 6.7 billion to more than 9 billion, he said.
“Most of that growth will occur in countries least able to sustain it, a situation that will likely fuel instability and extremism, both in those countries and beyond,” Hayden said.
With the population of countries such as Niger and Liberia projected to triple in size in 40 years, regional governments will be forced to rapidly find food, shelter and jobs for millions, or deal with restive populations that “could be easily attracted to violence, civil unrest, or extremism,” he said.
[end of quote]
This population growth, people, is what the Rule of Law Resolution and the fight over illegal immigration is all about. Do you want your neighborhoods, the County, the State, the Nation to be overrun by the rest of the world’s excess population? If not, start doing something about it.
When our own elected officials have seemingly stabbed us in the back, I ask how can we do something about it? The cards are seriously stacked against us. There needs to be thousands of PWC, Manassas, and Manassas Park residents at the next supervisors meeting. All prepared and ready to do battle.
Litterally “doing battle” is what we should all be prepared for, Mando.
The DUDE posted this on a previous thread. It’s worth reading.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/30/AR2008043003492.html
Also unsaid is we shouldn’t be cheering and supporting high fertility rates in people who can not afford the children they are birthing. It’s irresponsible. The competition for fewer resources in the not too distant future is going to turn ugly.
No, I don’t want my community overcrowded and over run by a group of people who are a net liability. I am glad that in concert with the resolution, the BOCS are also trying to put the brakes on the run away growth.
The next battleground is the schools. I don’t want my children indoctrinated with anti-American crap. With the budget restraints we have, why the heck are we funding a “diversity” office and supporting garbage like Cesar Chavez celebrations? There was no history of Chavez in Virginia to celebrate or remember. Enough. I am so sick of our hard earned money being frittered away on garbage like this. To those who think this is something to support and fund, go out and get private and corporate funding for your personal little socialist projects. Quit reaching into my pocket.
Advocator:
Are you kidding me?!? I thought the “rule of law” resolution was about getting rid of people who were in the country illegally. When did it become about being overrun by the world’s population? If Congress passed a law next week that tightened the borders so people couldn’t cross illegally, put in place harsh penalties for those who did cross illegally, put in place a “no tolerance” policy that booted out anyone currently here illegally, but also *doubled* the number of people allowed in each year *legally* and put in place a guest worker program, would you have a problem?
I ask because I want you to make something clear. For you, illegal immigration is the battle. What’s next in your war? Do you want to see the number of *legal* immigrants allowed into the country curtailed? If population growth is your concern, then this never really was about legal versus illegal, was it? Many who support the PWC “rule of law” resolution have been adamant that they don’t side with groups like FAIR and have gone a long way to distance themselves from groups who are looking to curtail not only illegal immigration but legal migration as well. There have been plenty here who keep repeating that they have no problem with *legal* immigrants. They welcome legal immigrants.
So what’s the real story?
Turn PW Blue said on 1 May 2008 at 10:34 am:
I know you didn’t ask me - but I for one would like to see immigration stopped completely, until we get this mess cleaned up and things under control.
I’d like to take the opportunity to introduce a friend of mine from
Butler County, Ohio, Sheriff Richard K. Jones. He has the right
kind of attitude and is extremely popular with Butler County
citizens. It is not just him alone either. His Deputies and staff
are on the same wave length too. He is trying to be proactive in his area and prevent what’s happening here. Click his home page for more details.
http://www.butlersheriff.org/geninfo/news/news_287g_deputies.htm
I read the butler county sherrifs page you linked to above:
What is the criteria for ’suspecting’ someone is an illegal alien?
Today is May 1st, Law Day. The day we, as Americans, celebrate the rule of law.
Tom Ridge,
I’m gonna go downtown and march for laws that reflect justice. Do you want to join me?
Turn PW:
“If Congress passed a law next week …”
I deal in reality, PW, not idealistic hypotheticals. I leave that to you leftists.
Turn Blue,
America has a number of guest worker programs in place, and they are adjusted yearly it seems.
We allow a number of immigrants into the Country, and I also believe that number is adjusted from year to year.
Pr. William police chief revokes portions of county immigration crackdown policy
Dan Genz, The Examiner
2008-05-01
WASHINGTON -
Police Chief Charlie Deane on Wednesday revoked portions of Prince William County’s policy that directed officers to check the legal status of all suspected illegal immigrants stopped for minor crimes or traffic violations before an arrest.
The chief’s move followed a unanimous board vote late Tuesday night to direct officers to initiate immigration status checks only after arrests to eliminate the need for in-car police cameras to save money and guard against lawsuits.
“There is no longer the requirement that they do that inquiry prior to the physical arrest of someone,” Deane said, adding that officers will be provided guidelines later this week on how to implement the changes.
All suspects arrested on suspicion of a crime will be checked for legal status regardless of whether the officer has reason to believe the suspect is in the country illegally.
The change will mean hundreds more people each month will face status checks after committing crimes, but that dozens fewer suspects will be referred to federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement for driving too fast or for being too loud.
“As a practical matter, the number of criminals we refer to ICE will not change, and we put the county in a much better position both from a legal perspective and financially,” said Supervisor Mike May, R-Occoquan.
In March, Deane reported 89 people were questioned about their legal status, including 41 who were arrested.
Of those, 31 were arrested on misdemeanor charges, eight on felony charges and two on immigration warrants. The 48 others were questioned prior to an arrest, including for traffic violations and suspicious person inquiries.
Despite the police chief’s directive, the policy change incited a public relations war as critics and supporters of the county’s crackdown sought to claim the upper hand.
While Board of Supervisors Chairman Corey Stewart strongly opposed the changes to the policy for fear they would be seen as limiting its sweep, he later endorsed the new measures as making the policy stronger.
“If you’re an illegal immigrant, this just made things tougher on you because now we don’t need probable cause to check your illegal immigration status,” Stewart said.
Immigrant advocate Aracely Panameno said it is too early to tell what the changes mean, particularly a section giving officers discretion to check legal status.
“They still have that wiggle room, which is why you don’t see us in the community saying, ‘Victory!’ There is still a little nervousness as to how this will work,” she said.
That didn’t stop Supervisor Frank Principi, D-Woodbridge, a critic of the crackdown, from making a “V” with his hands to signal victory Tuesday night. “You can see the tide has turned,” he said.
http://www.examiner.com/a-1369299~Pr__William_police_chief_revokes_portions_of_county_immigration_crackdown_policy.html
The WashPo got it a bit more right with their coverage today, but they still don’t understand it fully.
http://virginiavirtucon.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/washpo-gets-it-a-bit-more-right-but-not-fully/
I swear I read a post that asked us all to sit back and relax today,
do nothing, lay in the grass, light up a joint….I don’t know, but I
can’t find the darn thing.
This is NOT the day to do NOTHING. Let your elected officials
know that you are not happy with these marches.
Be sure to call your Senators and Representatives today and tell them
you want them to support the SAVE Act (H.R. 4088), and that you
oppose these marches going on today.
Rep. Wolf is a co-sponsor of H.R. 4088. Tell him he’s doing a great
job and thank him for it.
Rep. Wolf 202-225-5136
Sen. Warner 202-224-2023
Sen. Webb 202-224-4024
Truth, I’m sure you’ll fit right in with the rest of the folks there, such as the Communist Party USA, The Socialist Workers Party, the Students for a Democratic Society, and the People United.
Have fun.
Chief Deane needs to go
http://virginiavirtucon.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/fire-good-time-charlie-deane/
“This population growth, people, is what the Rule of Law Resolution and the fight over illegal immigration is all about.”
Maybe for you Advocator, but not for the majority of the rest of us…it’s about the LAW, and the Federal Government letting us down. I agree with Blue that your comment was SO wrong on SO many levels. It’s precisely those extremist attitudes on both sides of the issue which have caused the debate to de-evolve into an emotional diatribe. Your comment is no better than those offered by the MWB/MSF when they shout and scream for the entitlements to which they are not entitled.
Advocator - you’re right on the money. The ROLR is about getting illegals out - but they are here as a direct result of a culture that seems to think making more babies than they can support is good, coupled with governments that can’t and won’t take care of them.
If the rest of the country does not take action similar to what y’all’ve done in PWC, the US population will sky-rocket; and if you think we have economic problems now…well just wait and see what happens then. We will all wind up poor and plagued with crime and disease.
I will support legal immigration in the country under the current laws. I’m not in this fight to change laws, just uphold the ones on the books and see to it those here illegally are removed by whatever means necessary. However, I do NOT want to see an increase in legal immigration levels and will fight that battle when the time comes. I also believe we need to start decreasing the legal levels soon, not because of any prejudice, but simply based on the fact that we can’t sustain our growth forever without dire consequences. We don’t need anymore people here in America.
The Chinese had it right when they built their Great Wall and instituted birth limits. When you have a great society, people will take the path of least resistance to a better life and be drawn to it. And it is prudent for that society to take measures to protect themselves from a surplus population. It may sound mean, but that is the reality of nature.
The US needs to hunker down and slow population growth. Then we, along with other industrialized nations, can assist the developing world to build modern, sustainable societies in THEIR homelands - not ours.
So, thanks to our BOCS, illegal aliens are going to be allowed to keep driving without licenses, while we need to have one? What happens when an illegal alien is stopped and doesn’t have a driver’s license? That is what I want to know. This person will give a false Identity and whether a ticket is issued or not, it won’t matter, because the illegal alien will not be paying it. I am FURIOUS!
Agreed that we need to do something. I would hate to see us and our culture being run into the dirt by overcrowding and the “MexiFornia” of our society. I would also hate to have to cash out my 401K to stock up on canned food, liquor, and ammo.
More Rules For Street Vendors in Manassas
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/30/AR2008043000022.html
I never new the Good Humor man couldn’t legally do that. See them all the time.
The ordinance, which has not been updated in 30 years, not only enacts stricter guidelines but it finally makes it legal for vehicles such as a Good Humor truck to stop and serve customers.
“One of the old sections adopted 30 years ago prohibited ice cream trucks from stopping on public streets,” Grzejka said, adding that most vendors did so anyway. “That section has been removed, so it’s legal for the ice cream man to stop and sell.”
Also:
“There is a specific law that says we must deny permits to anyone not legally in the country,” Grzejka said, adding that law took effect around Labor Day. “We’ve been doing that, and we’ll continue to do that.”
I’m glad, AW, you’re on my side for the battle, if not the war. Re-establishing respect for the legal process is reason enough to join the cause.
Turn PW Blue said on 1 May 2008 at 10:34 am:
Advocator:
Are you kidding me?!? I thought the “rule of law” resolution was about getting rid of people who were in the country illegally. When did it become about being overrun by the world’s population?
It seems both go hand-in-hand wouldn’t you agree?
Truth (are your fingers crossed?)
I read the butler county sherrifs page you linked to above:
The Sheriff’s Office will assist local law enforcement in determining an individual’s immigration status, as well as, possess the authority to detain suspected illegal aliens until their immigration status can be determined.
What is the criteria for ’suspecting’ someone is an illegal alien?
Well lets see…No drivers license when pulled over. Phony drivers
license, doesnt speak English and no proof of residency. (the
Sheriff’s policies are VERY strongly supported by the locals)
You should dig a little deeper on Sheriff Jones website. A peek at the Jail Roster tells a lot.
Looks like once again the legal county residents have been “HAD” by the BOCS and COP. The vote the other night was to keep the ROLR intact and it passed by a 7-1 vote. It didn’t take more than 2 hours before it was changed with NO notification that is was being ammended. Now the COP is also making major changes to the enforcement. Principi indeed won!
I was in a rush to get out the door when I wrote my post, and when I just re-read it, it sounded a little out of context from what I wanted to covey. I would like to qualify me remarks for anyone who cares.
I am not advocating birth limits like the Chinese did. I only wanted to point out that they identified a problem and took a step to correct it in what they thought was a humane way, albeit it in their somewhat twisted logic. Plus I think it was voluntary, and is no longer in place. If it was mandatory, then that’s of course completely ethically and morally wrong. But given their out of control growth that has created an ecological disaster in their country, you could argue it was probably prudent at the time to encourage people to have less kids. We only have one ourselves, and that’s not going to change becasue I’d like to retire some day.
And yes, we do need more people in the US, so I’m also not advocating mass sterilization. I meant to say we don’t need more immigrants in the context of a reduction, but not elimination, of legal immigration levels in the future. In other words, let’s assimilate and absorb the legal immigrants we have into our American fabric while getting back to the lower historic levles of immigration - before the liberals like Lyndon Johnson increased them.
Sorry if any miscontrued my original remarks. I feel like Obama now…
OK, Advocator, since you don’t like hypotheticals, let me ask the questions you avoided straight up. (However, I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that the very dire projections that prompted my question are…wait for it…hypotheticals based on current trends. I recall there were similar projections in the 1970s that by the year 2000 we’d be facing world-wide famine because of a similar predications of population growth explosion. So I guess it’s fair to say you only like certain hypotheticals.)
Here are the simple questions (yes or no answers work well):
1. Do you believe that we have too much *legal* immigration?
2. Do you want to see the number of *legal* immigrants allowed into this country reduced dramatically?
3. Do you believe that immigration, ANY immigration, is bad for the United States?
None of these are hypotheticals, though I fully expect that you will find some other way to avoid answering the question. You have gone to great lengths to make this argument clack and white: either you agree with the “rule of law” resolution or you are an illegal alien apologist, leftist, whack-job. I just want to be clear on who I’d be aligning with were I to sign on to your anti-[illegal] immigration cause.
AWCheney, thanks. I know we probably don’t agree on much else, but it was nice to see your response.
We’ve often agreed on matters of reason Blue…I guess you just never noticed.
AWC–I did. I meant we don’t often agree on much in matters of policy or political position.
found this article:
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&sid=1395415
this quote really irritated me because of course the WaPo conveniently doesn’t clearly differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants…not every reader is going to catch the “green card” part of the quote below and realize that guy is a legal immigrant:
“Our people, we pay taxes, we pay the same as a citizen,” said Tesillos, who has a Green Card. “Maybe the new president can see this point, and do something for us,” he said.
The sad part is that unless there’s a HUGE write-in campaign, any of the three current political candidates will “see [his] point” and “do something”.
madmom said on 1 May 2008 at 12:20 pm: thanks for providing that info…I’m going to send off a letter/email indicating my displeasure with people whining to get amnesty after sneaking in our backdoor.
correction…it’s an AP report on WTOPs website…not the WaPo (as most of you can see from the link)
OK, PW. I’ll indulge in your game of fantasy. Answers: No. No. No.
As you should recall, the ’70’s projections were from some left wing nuts like Paul Ehrlich and Zero Population Growth adherents who were using his doomsday projections to rationalize liberalization of abortion laws. Some diehards of that era and philosophy say he was right, it’s just that some scientific advances in agriculture (nicknamed the Green Revolution) postponed the inevitable.
I’m not a believer in widespread famine and pestilence. I do believe that 1 million border hoppers a year is an indication that things just are not right in many parts of the rest of the world, and that if left unchecked, the 1 million per year figure will increase exponentially as a result of the conditions described in Hayden’s speech.
This is actually regarding the MJM v. Gainesville reports of the home invasion (comment is not saving…don’t know why):
I counted more than 4 characteristics in the Gainesville article:
group of 6-9 people
Black and Hispanic
Males
some between 20-22 years old
one had long black hair
Guess besides being slow to report, MJM also cannot count.
and Demfem…anytime I have seen Officer Erika Hernandez on TV or quoted in articles, she has plenty of suspect information to share. I have never gotten the feeling she was trying to keep certain info on the “down low”, as you say.
I thought you all might get a kick out to KGotthardt’s thinking. Here is a post from the anti site:
“kgotthardt said on 1 May 2008 at 12:19 pm:
1. Someone should contact Brett on the video and give him a clue.
2. Can the FCC do anything about BVBL?
3. BVBL people who think like GL are scary and dangerous as hell. Arrest THEM. Leave the peaceful people alone.”
You here that, you all are “scary” and should be arrested for expressing you opinions, your anger, your outrage. She wants the FCC to close down BVBL, becuase she is scared. She hates you because you want US law to be enforced, demand accountability from your elected officials, and insist that appointed officials adhere to the will of the people as well.
I’ve got an idea. Send KGotthardt down to G’tmo, and put her in an interegation room with an AQ suspect. Force him to listen to her crazy blather for a few hours. The dude will be begging to be waterboarded. “Please, I tell you everything. Just make the crazy lady go away”….
Fair enough, Advocator.
We actually agree on this. I see the rising population, especially in some of the poorest and most destitute parts of the world as a looming crisis as well. I also recognize that the disparity between their living conditions and their perception of conditions in the United States is one of the key factors in giving people the impetus to try to get to the United States in any way possible. I also agree that we should be tightening up our borders and improving overall security along our borders (northern and southern). I am glad to hear that you are not against all immigration. When you first posted the quote about the coming wave and how that was what the resolution was all about, you had me a bit confused. You are correct that the future holds some interesting times in terms of the global-political-economic dynamic.
Where I fall short of total agreement with you is where to go from there.
Do I believe that anyone arrested should have their immigration status checked? Yes. I believe that illegal immigrants in our midst are a fact of life until the Federal government gets off its duff and actually has meaningful dialog about how to address the problem. Until they do, people will be in the United States illegally. Much like our ridiculed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy, though, I don’t have as much of a problem with some here illegally who doesn’t stand out from the crowd. Keep your nose clean, live a decent life, respect your community, and we don’t actively pursue you. Run afoul of the law, though, and all bets are off. Do I believe that those in the country illegally should be able to receive government assistance in the form of food stamps, Welfare, or other such programs? No. Do I believe someone in the country illegally or whose parent is illegal should be able to receive a public education? Yes (as I believe it is in our best interest as a society to have that child in school learning than on the streets participating in a whole ‘nuther world of learnin’). In many cases, the children are unwitting accomplices who should not be punished for their parent’s actions. Do I believe that someone in the country illegally should be able to use the library? Yes. Do I believe that all those questioned or in contact with the police should have the immigration status checked? No. It’s a delicate balance. I don’t want victims of crime to be afraid to come forward because they have questionable immigration status. I don’t want our jails filled to the brim with people whose offense was driving 5 miles over the speed limit. Do I believe that all, legal or otherwise, should abide by our community standards for decency and general “good neighborlyness”? Yes! Do I believe that those who hire illegal labor should be punished (with jail time and fines)? Yes!
In the end, I can’t agree with you fully simply because I do not believe that with the exception of the provisions regarding those arrested, the “rule of law” resolution really does anything except force our problem to move to someone else’s backyard. “Yea! They left PWC! Now their Fairfax’s problem.” We haven’t solved anything. I don’t believe that our local response to this issue will have any long-lasting effect. I think that there are plenty who have left the county because of the resolution, but I also think that a good number of them would have left anyway when the economy began to slow and the jobs disappeared. Where I’m really disappointed in the “rule of law” resolution is the one-sided approach to enforcement.
The “war on drugs” shifted from going after end users to going after suppliers because it became pretty clear that the users were more a symptom of a much larger problem. To really address the drug issue, you have to go after the infrastructure. Bust a junkie, and three more pop up to take his place. Bust a dealer, and you’ve done some real good. Bust a distributer and you’re really making an impact. Take down a cartel, and now you’re in business. I see this local “rule of law” approach to immigration enforcement like the first attempts in the war on drugs. It goes after the “users.” For the resolution to really have an effect, it also should have gone after those who make the prospect of coming to America by any means so enticing. Were it not for those who hire and provide income for illegal labor, there would be no real impetus for people to come here. Contrary to the rhetoric, it’s probably a small minority who come here intent on living off the public dole. Most come because they think (or know) they can find gainful employment.
Well, PW, you just suffer from sympathy syndrome, and you probably like having your toilet washed by slaves, also.
You say, “Keep your nose clean, live a decent life, respect your community, and we don’t actively pursue you.” That’s where your argument breaks down. What you really mean is, “Keep a low profile, accept the slave wages we proffer, stay out of the ‘good’ neighborhoods except to clean our toilets, mow our lawns, and nanny our children, and we’ll eventually reward you (maybe) with legal status.”
First, I won’t be a party to exploitation of another country’s excess population for my own amusement/convenience. I wash my own toilets and mow my own grass (or let it grow). I hire legal residents when I can’t do a job myself.
Second, I realize that by not actively pursuing this illegal population, I encourage more of the same behavior, i.e., border-hopping, and all the bad things that go along with it, like identity theft.
Third, indulging the skirting of any legal process, which is what illegal immigration is all about, encourages the relaxation and skirting of all other legal processes. Why not allow white-collar criminals off the hook, also. After all, they really don’t hurt anyone, do they? Let’s let mortgage lenders lie a little. That doesn’t hurt anyone, does it?
Fourth, by allowing illegal immigrants to dominate the labor force for slave wages, we are destroying a wage structure that evolved over several generations. A wage structure that many of our forefathers fought for on the picket lines.
Fifth, by allowing illegal immigrants to dominate the labor force we are depriving citizens and other legal residents of entry level jobs into the labor force. When I was in college, I worked summers as a roofer (I still have my journeyman’s card) at $11.00/hour. That was 30-35 years ago. I’ll bet college kids TODAY cannot find jobs like that this summer. Why? Because people like you tolerate illegal aliens who “just keep their noses clean.”
Sixth, by indulging illegal immigration, we encourage the perpetuation of corrupt, inefficient regimes in the countries they come from
I could go on, but I got some work to do.
I say go after them like an Italian hound goes after truffles. Root them out of their basement apartments and put them up in make-shift tent jails on the PWC Parkway/Rte 28 cloverleaf until ICE picks them up. If they unass PWC and just go to Fairfax and Monty Counties, so much the better. Once they overload their social service network, they’ll get the bum’s rush from those left wingers also.
You know I’m right, PW, but you just can’t stand the thought of Jose and Maria and their 5 kids being sent back to Guat or Hondo or whatever cesspool they escaped from. Your sympathies are admirable, but you’re killing this country, and not doing the rest of the world any good either.
@Turn PW Blue
I agree with you almost 100%. The problem in PWC has become so drastic that I believe it deserves drastic measures. Communities can only take on so much of a burden and illegal aliens in PWC have become a SERIOUS burden. Some of that burden has been lifted in a short period of time with little more then perception. Maybe the resolution is a little short sighted, but when a wound is bleeding enough to the point of death you apply a tourniquet.
*DISCLAIMER*
Even though I mention bleeding I do not advocate the letting of blood nor intend to let any blood in a violent manner upon any living being.
I generally agree with your comment Blue. Actually, I’ve had a theory which rather relates to your “drug” analogy. Given that the Resolution (nicknamed the “Rule of Law” Resolution because that is really all it does…demand that our local bureaucracy enforce the law…sad, isn’t it) became necessary because PWC employees were NOT enforcing the laws already on the books and giving our county the appearance of a sanctuary locality, including unequal enforcement of laws and ordinances to favor illegal aliens. One would think that the Resolution made perfect sense, yet it led to an amazing uprising among enablers and leaders of those illegal aliens, including that part of the business community which employs and exploits them. It rather backfired on them when the fear they generated among those illegal aliens caused so many of them to pack up and leave, so they decided to change their tactics…287g good, Resolution not needed. MY theory is that all this ridiculous energy being expended by them (illegal alien lobby) on this Resolution is merely to deflect attention from the next logical step…refusing business licenses to those companies which do not verify the legal status of their employees. THAT’S WHAT THEY ALL REALLY FEAR!
Pr. William Supervisor Frank Principi Rides Along With Police Chief Charlie Deane To Implement The New County Immigration Crackdown Policy
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2043/2457615732_8852d8b1dc_o.jpg
Turn PW Blue, I respect your refreshingly intelligent and unemotional argument. I agree with you, but not at the point where we allow illegal aliens to be here as long as they lie low and keep their noses clean. I don’t think we can sit around waiting for Uncle Sam to fix this problem and continue to absorb the unending stream of non-citizens flooding schools, hospitals, jails and neighborhoods. Crime is crime, and allowing certain crimes to go unpunished because they don’t appear to hurt anyone else sets up an ambiguously unfair legal and moral mess. Why should I have to pay income taxes, if the illegal aliens crowding the house next door do not? Why bother showing ID and an insurance card at the hospital, when I can skip out on my bill entirely? It doesn’t really hurt anyone else, does it?
The Feds are not going to do anything about our borders unless the states start making more noise, demanding that the government either secure our borders or compensate the states for the costs of providing services to the influx of non-citizens. It starts with grassroots movements, with local jurisdictions taking action that will eventually put pressure on the states until it ultimately becomes a major national campaign issue. At that point, candidates for the top positions in the nation will finally have some stake in the issue. Without any action at the local level, the Feds can sit back and ignore the issue and suffer no political cost.
WOW this site was on CNN today! Also featured was that pinko film maker lady from the access TV show.
I’m wondering what AWC thinks of Marty Nohe now????
Anon, I think that I should contact Marty…and Wally, and John (Stirrup), and Mike, and Maureen, and Corey to find out how that got past them (I just read the actual wordage myself). Don’t you think that you should, too?
People are very quick to judge before they have all the facts…and people DO make mistakes. I’d like to hear what they have to say before I throw them under the bus for making one.
She is unreal. I’ve been reading that site for the past few weeks, and those ladies are so nasty and vindictive that I have been afraid to post there, fearing that my computer might suffer some malicious virus or other. No matter how outrageous her posts are, her friends there (more like attack dogs, actually) defend her unconditionally and try to rip any critics to shreds.
Marty and Mike facilitated this.
Marty and Mike also voted against the cameras.
Anon, regardless of who may have facilitated it (if that’s even true), ALL of them voted for it…if you consider that wrong, then you should hold ALL of them responsible. Marty and Mike only had two votes.
Greg’s comments the day after the meeting:
Also, the Board retained the officers’ discretion to check immigration status of those detained for any purpose, even minor infractions. As a result of these actions, our police will be checking the immigration status of more people committing crimes in the County. I know that there was some confusion by other news sources concerning the effects of the Board’s action last evening, and I have been contacting those sources today asking them to correct their stories.
Do you still stand by your comments 2 days after the BOCS meeting?
I just saw a movie on DVD called “Border.” It’s a documentary about the problems with the border and the service that the Minutemen are providing. I highly recommend it.
Marty and Mike didn’t want the cameras.
Marty was the one at the anti-bvbl party.
Marty and Mike were the one’s scurrying back and forth in the board chambers the night of this new resolution.
The votes of Mike and Marty kept us from getting the cameras.
The lack of cameras is what caused the resolution to be altered to cover our asses.
Mike and Marty are DIRECTLY responsible for this mess.
Actually anon, the lack of cameras in the county police vehicles is a direct result of Chief Deane not filing for Federal grants in the past decade as numerous police departments around the country have done. His demand for cameras now is purely political…he could have had them long ago.
Yes, he could have. And he could have had them now, too. But Marty and Mike conveniently stood in the way of that.
In any case, the resolution did not need to be changed. They could have all left it the way it was and then directed the chief to do his job and apply for grants to get the funding.
But whether we should have had the cameras years ago is a moot point. We don’t have them.
And we could have had them for one penny. But Marty and Mike made sure that didn’t happen.
Give me a break anon. There are a lot of things that could be had for a penny. How many times has Corey voted against the budget over a penny. Geez, the BOCS couldn’t even agree on advertisement for WEEKS over a few pennies. Isn’t it possible that the BOCS is trying to keep our taxes as low as possible in a really bad economic time?
I seem to recall all sorts of protests here this spring about getting cameras for every squad car. Getting 10 cameras wasn’t going to cut it. It was an all or none deal. How do you determine who gets a car with a camera?
I see it as 2 choices: Put a camera in every car or remove the component of the resolution that puts our officers and county at risk for law suits. I believe that plan B was chosen to save the tax payers money. I have thanked the supervisors rather than vilify them. I would have done the same thing had they installed cameras for the protection of all, although perhaps not as heartily.
Money talks and everyone knows what walks.
anyone know what’s going on Lomond (near Strasburg) today (11:30am-ish)? 12 cop cars, 2 city bocks closed. I heard talks of an illegal immigration raid but nothing confirmed.
Let’s hope it is an ICE raid! There are still several overcrowded “boarding houses” on Lomond Drive. A raid in Westgate would probably encourage a major exodus!
Any more word on the Lomond Dr. incident?
I swung by there a few minutes ago, and whatever activity was there seems to be over.
There’s a third alternative, Dolph. The police should be questioning every swingin’ Richard they come into contact with about their residence status. No discretion. No probable cause or reasonable suspicion standard to meet. Every one.
AWCheney said on 2 May 2008 at 12:00 am:
Actually anon, the lack of cameras in the county police vehicles is a direct result of Chief Deane not filing for Federal grants in the past decade as numerous police departments around the country have done. His demand for cameras now is purely political…he could have had them long ago.
Cheney you seem to forget the most important cost related to the cameras which no Federal grant will pay for and is an on going cost year after year and that is the personel to review every tape and to maintain the tapes and that staff. It was several million dollars a year in reoccuring expense for there were I believe 5-6 people needed for the camera’s. The BOCS has not been eager to fund that cost which is way more then the cameras them selves.
That must be the politics of the BOCS which you are refering to or not ???
I wasn’t referring to the politics of the BOCS…I was referring to the politics of Charles Deane.
Anyone see the latest grab for the Latino vote? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3887721/
From the article:
“The temporary worker program would mean Mexican workers “can have all the rights that any other worker in that country has even though they do not have American citizenship or documents at the moment,” Fox said”
How about the responsibilities that come with those rights? Like keeping your home and property neat, not keeping chickens in your residentially zoned neighborhood, learning the native language, and becoming a part of the community rather than creating you own little ghetto?
AWCheney said on 2 May 2008 at 9:31 pm:
I wasn’t referring to the politics of the BOCS…I was referring to the politics of Charles Deane.
one can not take the politics of the BOCS supervisors out of the factor for it is their politics of not spending that Deane knows and therefor can not buy something that will not be funded to operate such as the camera’s.
Do you believe that the BOCS would have funded the operation of the cameras before this year?
Wait a minute, Bob Wills…if you check into it a little, you will find that the PWC PD had and and still has plenty of vacant personnel positions (some vacant for as long as three to four years) that were funded and COULD have been filled, but weren’t. So, it wasn’t a matter of needing more authorized positions to review/file camera recordings, the personnel positions were left vacant, the PD just didn’t fill them.
I wonder who is in charge of PWC PD recruiting….and even MORE interesting, whom do you suppose is in charge of the PWC PD recruiters who didn’t recruit? Do you suppose THAT Corey Stewart and Mike May were responsible for that too, Bob? Don’t think so.
freedom said on 3 May 2008 at 4:11 pm:
Wait a minute, Bob Wills…if you check into it a little, you will find that the PWC PD had and and still has plenty of vacant personnel positions (some vacant for as long as three to four years) that were funded and COULD have been filled, but weren’t. So, it wasn’t a matter of needing more authorized positions to review/file camera recordings, the personnel positions were left vacant, the PD just didn’t fill them.
I wonder who is in charge of PWC PD recruiting….and even MORE interesting, whom do you suppose is in charge of the PWC PD recruiters who didn’t recruit? Do you suppose THAT Corey Stewart and Mike May were responsible for that too, Bob? Don’t think so.
Actualy I asked that same questions of Gerhert if vacant positions are funded because they exist and if so where are those funds being used in the Budget. His answer was they do not fund all positions that are authorized and some they do not fund at all knowing they will not be filled. I like you believed that all positions are funded in the budget but that is not so. One would have to look futher to see if the position in the PD that are not filleda re funded in the Budget or not.
Of course they’re funded if they’re authorized. No one knows when they will or might be filled. In most cases, they’re still reviewing resumes or they have advertised the positions. Can you imagine the result if they managed to fill all the authorized positions and that those positions weren’t included in the budget??
Bob Gerhart told you they were authorized but not funded????
U.S. Border Control
Nebraska Attorney General punished by feds for refusing to represent illegals
Posted: 06 May 2008 08:52 PM CDT
The federal government is holding back federal funding for a Nebraska public commission in order to punish the state’s attorney general for refusing to use taxpayer dollars to file lawsuits for illegal aliens . Nebraska Attorney General Jon Bruning would not pursue cases on behalf of illegal immigrants. As a result, the state’s Equal Opportunity Commission lost $240,000 in annual federal funding.
The commission’s head insisted that the state’s top prosecutor pursue a discrimination case on behalf of an illegal immigrant couple that was asked by a landlord for drivers’ licenses. Non-Hispanic tenants did not have to provide licenses therefore the commission determined that the illegal aliens were victims of discrimination.
The Attorney General refused to take legal action representing illegals in the case, stating that the 1996 federal welfare reform law prohibits him from providing legal services to illegal immigrants. “I’m not going to use taxpayer dollars to file lawsuits for illegal aliens,” he confirmed, adding that those who are not citizens of this country are not going to get a free lawyer from his office.
Bruning’s stance caused outrage among immigrant advocates, who are planning a lawsuit. The director of a renowned radical Chicano group (National Council of La Raza) that advocates the return of the American Southwest to Mexico, says Bruning is allowing people to “run wild over immigrants.”