Comments on: Delegate Votes, Apples, Oranges, And Weighted Votes — UPDATED http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/ Blog-Fu for Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park politics. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:24:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: James Young http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-67035 James Young Thu, 05 Jun 2008 16:24:16 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-67035 That's interesting, Becky, particularly for PWC. My recollection is that the breakdown of votes was nearly identical on the two ballots, even though we lost nearly 75 voters between the two. That’s interesting, Becky, particularly for PWC. My recollection is that the breakdown of votes was nearly identical on the two ballots, even though we lost nearly 75 voters between the two.

]]> By: Becky Stoeckel http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66753 Becky Stoeckel Tue, 03 Jun 2008 08:50:52 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66753 Bryanna - You're welcome, but I should clarify that the numbers provided were the delegate votes and not the actual number of people who attended. In total numbers there were 1,168 FILED delegates. Those 1,168 voters were worth 1,700 delegate votes (a.k.a. weighted votes). As far as actual bodies present, in the 11th, we had 9 from Fairfax City, 413 from Fairfax Co & 312 from PWC at the time of balloting for Senate. There were 9, 350 & 229 respectively at the time of the Chairman's ballot. I don't have the breakdowns of how many of these people were from the 10th or 11th - probably need to get that from the Unit Chairs. If you want more info, shoot me an email or you can call me at my office later today (703-352-1337) and I'll do my best to answer any questions you have. Bryanna - You’re welcome, but I should clarify that the numbers provided were the delegate votes and not the actual number of people who attended. In total numbers there were 1,168 FILED delegates. Those 1,168 voters were worth 1,700 delegate votes (a.k.a. weighted votes).

As far as actual bodies present, in the 11th, we had 9 from Fairfax City, 413 from Fairfax Co & 312 from PWC at the time of balloting for Senate. There were 9, 350 & 229 respectively at the time of the Chairman’s ballot. I don’t have the breakdowns of how many of these people were from the 10th or 11th - probably need to get that from the Unit Chairs.

If you want more info, shoot me an email or you can call me at my office later today (703-352-1337) and I’ll do my best to answer any questions you have.

]]> By: Bryanna http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66707 Bryanna Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:53:15 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66707 correction...11th District. The 10th and 11th were seated together so it would be helpful to know how many Delegates combined represented the 10th and 11th. correction…11th District.

The 10th and 11th were seated together so it would be helpful to know how many Delegates combined represented the 10th and 11th.

]]> By: Bryanna http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66702 Bryanna Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:40:51 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66702 Becky, Thanks for providing the actual number of delegates who participated from the 10th and 11th Districts. Seeing and being a part of the Delegation at the convention was extremely energizing. The Republican party is clearly alive and strong in Northern VA! With Jeff Frederick elected, now it's time to focus on making Keith Fimian the next Republican Congressman for the 11th District! Becky,
Thanks for providing the actual number of delegates who participated from the 10th and 11th Districts. Seeing and being a part of the Delegation at the convention was extremely energizing.

The Republican party is clearly alive and strong in Northern VA!

With Jeff Frederick elected, now it’s time to focus on making Keith Fimian the next Republican Congressman for the 11th District!

]]> By: Dennis http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66621 Dennis Mon, 02 Jun 2008 11:08:06 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66621 BS - great follow-up. I sincerely appreciate your effort to educate this skeptic. I'll contact you at you office. BS - great follow-up. I sincerely appreciate your effort to educate this skeptic. I’ll contact you at you office.

]]> By: Becky Stoeckel http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66618 Becky Stoeckel Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:44:34 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66618 Dennis - Had I been running the show, I would've included that information in the Delegate packets that were mailed out in advance of the convention (as I did with the info for my own 11th district convention) because I understand that not everyone who attends is well versed in these matters, and because when people know what is going on and why, things run far smoother. A lack of understanding very often leads to confusion and mistrust. As for a list of the Unit committees in the state, it was - and still should be - up on RPV's website. If you look under "who we are" it will list all the Unit Chairs along with the county or city unit. As for their proportional vote allocations, I know what they were in the 11th District: Fairfax County = 1,261; Pr. Wm. Co. = 408; and Fairfax City = 31; for a total in the 11th of 1,700. I can also provide you with a copy of the complete list for the entire state, if you will email me at my office at epi@cavtel.net. I don't know if RPV will post the vote counts (raw and/or apportioned) on their website or not. Many people at the convention tracked them, but I believe they did it by congressional district and not by unit. I don't remember the the 11th's numbers exactly and don't want to provide less than accurate figures here. Any time I can be of help, I am happy to do so. Please feel free to keep my email address for future inquiries. Dennis - Had I been running the show, I would’ve included that information in the Delegate packets that were mailed out in advance of the convention (as I did with the info for my own 11th district convention) because I understand that not everyone who attends is well versed in these matters, and because when people know what is going on and why, things run far smoother. A lack of understanding very often leads to confusion and mistrust.

As for a list of the Unit committees in the state, it was - and still should be - up on RPV’s website. If you look under “who we are” it will list all the Unit Chairs along with the county or city unit.

As for their proportional vote allocations, I know what they were in the 11th District: Fairfax County = 1,261; Pr. Wm. Co. = 408; and Fairfax City = 31; for a total in the 11th of 1,700. I can also provide you with a copy of the complete list for the entire state, if you will email me at my office at epi@cavtel.net.

I don’t know if RPV will post the vote counts (raw and/or apportioned) on their website or not. Many people at the convention tracked them, but I believe they did it by congressional district and not by unit. I don’t remember the the 11th’s numbers exactly and don’t want to provide less than accurate figures here.

Any time I can be of help, I am happy to do so. Please feel free to keep my email address for future inquiries.

]]> By: Eve http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66608 Eve Mon, 02 Jun 2008 01:14:33 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66608 BVBL--4 VA Beach voters who were on the delegation list (that their unit chair had with him) were not allowed to be credentialed because their names were not on RPV's master list. Yet a state delegate from the 6th district whose name was omitted on RPVs list was credentialed to vote. I simply don't understand the inconsistency. Wonder how often this happened. BVBL–4 VA Beach voters who were on the delegation list (that their unit chair had with him) were not allowed to be credentialed because their names were not on RPV’s master list. Yet a state delegate from the 6th district whose name was omitted on RPVs list was credentialed to vote. I simply don’t understand the inconsistency. Wonder how often this happened.

]]> By: Dennis http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66603 Dennis Sun, 01 Jun 2008 23:37:48 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66603 BS - that all sound appropriate. Thanks for the infomation. I just have a lack of trust these days... 'tis the season. To complete the explanation: Where can one find a list of the “units” and their proportional vote allocation? Then, where can one find yesterday’s actual vote count by unit? BS - that all sound appropriate. Thanks for the infomation. I just have a lack of trust these days… ’tis the season.

To complete the explanation:

Where can one find a list of the “units” and their proportional vote allocation?

Then, where can one find yesterday’s actual vote count by unit?

]]> By: Becky Stoeckel http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66576 Becky Stoeckel Sun, 01 Jun 2008 16:23:05 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66576 A "unit" is a county or city committee. The unit committees are seated with the congressional district in which contains the majority of the unit. The weighted votes are calculated by Unit, not by congressional district, they are simply reported by congressional district as it is faster that way. There were no shenanigans or manipulation of the weighted vote apportionment and this is the way it has been done in the past. After redistricting in 2001, the majority of Pr. Wm. Co. shifting into the 11th instead of the 10th. The weighted votes have always been calculated based on the number of Republican votes in the last Gubernatorial & Presidential elections and that is how it was done this time as well. I cannot speak to the folks who were asking people how they intended to vote -- that was not an RPV function that I am aware of, but most likely the floor staff of the candidates checking off their favorables as they arrived, which is not unusual. I would also like to note that I was very proud of the 11th District Delegation at the convention. Based on filings for the convention we constituted nearly 25% of the convention delegates (approx. 4,500 folks filed, with 1,168 of those in FFX & PWC) Due to oversights by RPV staffers, we were seriously short-changed on chairs and other supplies and had to adapt and overcome. Everyone was very patient and understanding, and all went smoothly and efficiently in the voting process thanks to FFX Chairman Jim Hyland and PWC Chairman Lyle Beefelt with the help of several terrific volunteers from both units. A “unit” is a county or city committee.

The unit committees are seated with the congressional district in which contains the majority of the unit.

The weighted votes are calculated by Unit, not by congressional district, they are simply reported by congressional district as it is faster that way.

There were no shenanigans or manipulation of the weighted vote apportionment and this is the way it has been done in the past. After redistricting in 2001, the majority of Pr. Wm. Co. shifting into the 11th instead of the 10th. The weighted votes have always been calculated based on the number of Republican votes in the last Gubernatorial & Presidential elections and that is how it was done this time as well.

I cannot speak to the folks who were asking people how they intended to vote — that was not an RPV function that I am aware of, but most likely the floor staff of the candidates checking off their favorables as they arrived, which is not unusual.

I would also like to note that I was very proud of the 11th District Delegation at the convention. Based on filings for the convention we constituted nearly 25% of the convention delegates (approx. 4,500 folks filed, with 1,168 of those in FFX & PWC) Due to oversights by RPV staffers, we were seriously short-changed on chairs and other supplies and had to adapt and overcome. Everyone was very patient and understanding, and all went smoothly and efficiently in the voting process thanks to FFX Chairman Jim Hyland and PWC Chairman Lyle Beefelt with the help of several terrific volunteers from both units.

]]> By: NLH http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66570 NLH Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:45:44 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66570 I too am a tad upset at this proceedure. Before we entered the convention hall there where several people with clipborads and a list asking for Fairfax County Delegates to come over. When we approched these people we were asked to show our registration cradentials whereupon we were checked off on the list and then asked, "who were we voting for Gilmore or Marshall and our response was also marked off on the list?", then we were told to sit with the 11th district group. At the time I mentally thought , why would we sit with the 11th district group instead of our own 10th district group? But I didn't verbally question this to the person with the clipboard. Now I feel used and manipulated by someone that wanted the results to be as controlled as possible because they new it was going to be close. I would press for the new RVP Chairman Mr. Frederick to question what happened and explain "all" of this to us (districts 10 & 11) so that the next convention we attend we will know if this is correct or if we are being manipulated to determine the outcome. This morining I feel manipulated to assure that Gilmore won. If this is normal proceedure at RVP conventions no wonder we can't get anything changed or done! I too am a tad upset at this proceedure. Before we entered the convention hall there where several people with clipborads and a list asking for Fairfax County Delegates to come over. When we approched these people we were asked to show our registration cradentials whereupon we were checked off on the list and then asked, “who were we voting for Gilmore or Marshall and our response was also marked off on the list?”, then we were told to sit with the 11th district group. At the time I mentally thought , why would we sit with the 11th district group instead of our own 10th district group? But I didn’t verbally question this to the person with the clipboard. Now I feel used and manipulated by someone that wanted the results to be as controlled as possible because they new it was going to be close. I would press for the new RVP Chairman Mr. Frederick to question what happened and explain “all” of this to us (districts 10 & 11) so that the next convention we attend we will know if this is correct or if we are being manipulated to determine the outcome. This morining I feel manipulated to assure that Gilmore won.
If this is normal proceedure at RVP conventions no wonder we can’t get anything changed or done!

]]> By: Dennis http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66565 Dennis Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:18:46 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66565 RH - Where can one find the definition of “unit?” Where can one find a list of the “units” and their proportional vote allocation? Then, where can one find yesterday’s actual vote count by unit? As I recall, the votes were reported yesterday by Congressional District and not by "unit." RH - Where can one find the definition of “unit?”

Where can one find a list of the “units” and their proportional vote allocation?

Then, where can one find yesterday’s actual vote count by unit?

As I recall, the votes were reported yesterday by Congressional District and not by “unit.”

]]> By: Rick Hendrix http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66563 Rick Hendrix Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:03:20 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66563 Greg, Whoever told you that we had never voted this way was wrong. Every state convention I have ever attended, since 1981, has reported this way. Votes aren't weighted by congressional district, they are weighted by unit. So it doesn't matter which district the units results get reported through, they would be the same. Greg,

Whoever told you that we had never voted this way was wrong. Every state convention I have ever attended, since 1981, has reported this way. Votes aren’t weighted by congressional district, they are weighted by unit. So it doesn’t matter which district the units results get reported through, they would be the same.

]]> By: Dennis http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66559 Dennis Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:40:32 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66559 Well, I drank the Kool-Aid too. I thought it was odd that delegates from Fairfax County were asked to sit and vote together instead of voting with their Congressional districts and the non-Fairfax delegates from the 9th, 10th, and 11th Congressional districts voted with their districts. Only in retrospect, does the impact of this shenanigan begin to make sense. By forcing Fairfax county delegates to vote together in the 11th district, the impact of their votes using the proportional voting scheme was significantly reduced. One could argue that the Gilmore-machine knew that Fairfax County was overwhelming in support of Marshall and reducing the impact of their vote gave an advantage to Gilmore. The elite had no way of knowing that the overall vote was going to be so close and would expose their scheme to assure Gilmore’s nomination. Could a fair vote have nominated Marshall as our Senate candidate? The Gilmore-machine needs to explain if this happened and why. Well, I drank the Kool-Aid too. I thought it was odd that delegates from Fairfax County were asked to sit and vote together instead of voting with their Congressional districts and the non-Fairfax delegates from the 9th, 10th, and 11th Congressional districts voted with their districts.

Only in retrospect, does the impact of this shenanigan begin to make sense.

By forcing Fairfax county delegates to vote together in the 11th district, the impact of their votes using the proportional voting scheme was significantly reduced.

One could argue that the Gilmore-machine knew that Fairfax County was overwhelming in support of Marshall and reducing the impact of their vote gave an advantage to Gilmore.

The elite had no way of knowing that the overall vote was going to be so close and would expose their scheme to assure Gilmore’s nomination.

Could a fair vote have nominated Marshall as our Senate candidate?

The Gilmore-machine needs to explain if this happened and why.

]]> By: James Young http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66545 James Young Sun, 01 Jun 2008 03:42:40 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/05/31/delegate-votes-apples-oranges-and-weighted-votes/#comment-66545 What, Greg? You can't even give credit where credit is due? "A little searching"? Or my detailed explanation of standard practice? What, Greg? You can’t even give credit where credit is due? “A little searching”? Or my detailed explanation of standard practice?

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