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Identity Theft And Children
By Greg L | 11 June 2008 | Illegal Aliens, Crime | 42 Comments
Identity Theft against children by illegal aliens has been demonstrated to be a huge problem in some rather unlikely places, such as Utah, as this news report indicates. How big is the problem? A local taxpayer activist organization reports:
In 2005, the Utah Attorney General’s office reported that an investigation had “uncovered an alarming new crime spree involving illegal aliens and identities stolen from victims under the age of 12.” That investigation only looked at the social security numbers of children on public assistance and yet it found that approximately 1,800 kids had their social security numbers being used by someone else.
A year later, a follow-up investigation revealed that the number of 12-year-olds whose social security numbers were being used by another person had tripled and many children were being victimized multiple times. In fact, one child’s social security number was being used by 37 different individuals. Since children on public assistance only make up a small percentage of all Utah children, it is estimated that between 20,000 and 50,000 children may be the victims of identity theft.
In addition, the investigation discovered that 1,626 companies were contributing to this collateral damage by making salary payments to social security numbers that belong to children under the age of 12.
I can only imagine what the scope of this problem is in Virginia. Ten million Americans every year fall victim to identity theft, and the majority of that is from illegal aliens falsifying information so they can gain employment and credit. The numbers for Virginia are almost certainly beyond intolerable.
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Which is why I think that employers who are made aware that they have no-match SSN’s (and do very little about it) need to have their business license revoked and fined out the ying-yang.
It’s simple math. A social security number is 9 digits. That gives you 999,999,999 combinations.
There are 350,000,000 people in the USA. Assuming that 100,000,000 of these do not have social security numbers, that leaves 250,000,000 that do.
999,999,999 combinations, 250,000,000 valid numbers.
That means that if you just picked 9 random digits, you’d have a 1 out 4 chance of coming up with a valid SSN.
The chances are higher than that if you take into account what 3-digit prefixes are valid and use one of those.
This, by the way, is why credit card numbers are 16 digits. They want to make darn sure you can’t pick a random number that works. On top of that, credit card numbers have a check digit which can be used to verify that the number was entered properly. (The check digit is a mathematical derivation of the other digits in the number, so a calculation can be performed on the number to ensure that it’s been entered correctly. It does not mean that the number is valid, after all, the formula is widely known and it’s possible to generate invalid credit card numbers that still pass the check digit test. It is only for guarding against data entry and data transmission errors.).
SSNs have no such protection. There’s no check digit in SSNs and no way to verify that they have been entered correctly other than by verifying against an accurate database.
“There are 350,000,000 people in the USA.”
Actually it’s 300,000,000 so if 100,000,000 of them do not have SSNs and the remaining 200,000,000 do then it’s “only” a 1 in 5 chance of coming up with a valid SSN using random digits.
Actually, there is a numbering scheme for SSNs that removes about a quarter of the possible permutations from the pool of valid numbers. For example, any SSN with a “group number” (the first three digits) greater than 772 is invalid. The “area number” (the next two digits) are assigned in blocks, and those area numbers that haven’t been issued would of course be invalid.
For anyone who understands the well-publicized numbering scheme for SSNs (which someone making their living selling fraudulent documents certainly would), they should have no trouble coming up with SSNs where the chance of it being valid would be well in the 80% range, at least.
All of this stuff…from identity theft to human smuggling …fills the gaps created by the unrealistic immigration laws the same way that organized crime filled the gap created by unrealistic prohibition laws of the 1920s.
America-haters like Advocator and GregL encourage, support, and now are expanding these unrealistic immigration laws that are hurting all of us, especially our children.
America-haters like Advocator and GregL are holding the welfare of our children hostage…they are ransoming our childrens’ futures…in exchange for control over our country’s culture.
America-haters like Advocator and GregL might as well be calling for the buffoonery of reinstating the prohibition laws of the 1920s.
“HeyAbbot said on 11 Jun 2008 at 8:17 pm:
All of this stuff…from identity theft to human smuggling …fills the gaps created by the unrealistic immigration laws the same way that organized crime filled the gap created by unrealistic prohibition laws of the 1920s.”
I have to say there are LAWS and consequences for a reason.
Pick the ORDER. This is NOT directed at you “HeyAbott” BUT got me thinking about ( out side the box, no pun intended, lol ) about sperm donors, etc., etc., how does that stop a potential problem with not the l.a.w. , s.s but D.N.A? This is where my alarm bells go off because I can hear the solution of e-verify, national i.d, BIO-Metrics…..a police state.
Be aware of unattended consequences…or ARE they UNATTENDED?
Not a sermon,as that would be RELIGOUS, just a thought….run to the hills…oh, yeah, you can’t the satellites will find you
SORRY!
I posted my comment at 8:54 on this thread and it was the WRONG one
Oppps ME….it was meant for the e-verify thread
HeyAbbot said on 11 Jun 2008 at 8:17 pm:
All of this stuff…from identity theft to human smuggling …fills the gaps created by the unrealistic immigration laws the same way that organized crime filled the gap created by unrealistic prohibition laws of the 1920s.
hey abbot, maybe you think the immigration laws need to be changed, maybe i think they need to be changed, but the laws are what they are. so if you don’t like the laws, lobby to change them.
railing against GregL and the rest of us that are demanding that the current laws be enforced, well, what is that getting you? at least Greg talks the talk and walks the walk for his beliefs.
do you? didn’t think so.
GregL is not an “America Hater” more like a ” America Improver.” Alot of this foreclosure mess is due to the fact than loans were issued to individuals who provided a TPIN instead of SSN.
ITIN, not TPIN.
Here’s what the IRS has to say about ITINs:
“Are ITINs valid for identification?
No. ITINs are not valid identification outside the tax system. Since ITINs are strictly for tax processing, IRS does not apply the same standards as agencies that provide genuine identity certification.
ITIN applicants are not required to apply in person, and IRS does not further validate the authenticity of identity documents. ITINs do not prove identity outside the Federal tax system, and should not be offered or accepted as identification for non-tax purposes.”
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96287,00.html#valid
HeyAbbot,
Maybe you can contribute to the discussion in a CONSTRUCTIVE way by telling us which (Federal) laws you would like to see enforced and which you would like to see changed and/or repealed, and why.
As far as identity theft of children’s SSN’s are concerned, you cannot just run a credit check on the Federal Trade Commission’s web site so easily (which I think is annualcreditreport.com). You have to mail in your request. If you are concerned, go to the FTC web site to get more detailed instructions.
Taco Truck Ted,
I have to disagree about MOST of the loans were by TPIN instead of SS in reality there was a market for BS. That is what is was. I have seen it.
It was C.R.E.A.T.I.V.E loans that were A.K.A., N.O.N. -. Q.A.U.L.I.F.Y.I.N.G. Another words, we know this but the market is GOOD right now and we will sell it( assign it)
Actually, as I was spelling it out, it would be interesting to see which banks SOLD the MOST loans in a short turn around period
HeyAbbott is either The Truth or his mentor…the logic is as identifiable as it is absurd.
[Ed note: indeed.]
Da one, Da only, Da Trufe!
And here’s more trufe for you.
Organizations like Help Save Manassas are Al Queda’s little helpers. If you loved American you would be marching for amnesty and easy visas. This combination would eliminate illegal immigration. With that thorny issue dispatched, our politicians would finally be able to do something to secure the border from those who are coming here with catastrophic weapons to kill us on a scale that will change us forever.
But instead you refuse to support amnesty and easy visas…so the illegal immigration issue never dies…so the border security issue never is appropriately addressed.
And so we’ll go on playing political musical chairs…until one day, when Al Queda stops the music.
Give me a break. Our government can certainly handle securing the border AND fighting terrorism. As a matter of fact securing the border does both. How can combatting illegal immigration hamper the federal government when they’re doing little or nothing about it to begin with? And that’s the truth!
I disagree with Red Dawn and I agree with Taco Truck Ted.
The majority of the sub-prime loans in our area were given to ITIN-holders, people who lacked the proper documentation to get a normal loan. One only need to look at the foreclosure notices in the newspaper to see who was getting the sub-prime loans.
As the laws are strengthened, the illegal alien apologists get smarter and more shrewd.
More and more companies are adopting E-Verify to save themselves the hassle of having to deal with all those no-match letters.
Now, the illegals have learned they can produce their own ‘valid’ SSN that will clear all the hurdles and beat the E-Verify system.
Illegal aliens are now naming their children the same name as the mother, father or other family member. The Birth Certificate is used to issue a legal and valid SSN that is then used by the parent, or sold to family members. The only ones in a position to dispute the abuse are the very people who are illegally using these SSNs.
Because SSN and Social Security do not have the capability to verify numbers by issue date, they slide right on through and will never be challenged until the children are older.
And all this while they tried to tell us told us were just “breeding themselves into largest American minority status.”
Just another of many examples how self centered and self serving illegal aliens really are - to the extent they exploit their own children and risk destroying their futures.
Eventually, with initiatives such as the PWC “Rule of Law” enforcement, 287(g) and those of Oklahoma and Arizona, our federal government will get the message and secure the southern border.
PWC is marching in front and leading our country toward demanding the correct solution. With enough grassroots pressure, our Washington politicians simply can no longer resist.
Secure the border, and that CAN be done. Then, at the same time, preserve for American citizens what American citizens have created. Aliens here illegally (regardless of their nationality) will then see that trying to improve life in their native country might just be a good idea afterall.
Oh, and by the way, before you apologists start in, I don’t mind mowing my own grass…and if ever I do mind, I’ll have an American citizen do it…possibly an American citizen with Latino ancestry, who is trying to work his way up the economic ladder. I will do whatever I can to help that person.
I’m not sure why I see this as a ’story’? Obtaining a SSN from someone and/or stealing thier identify is very simple. In Virginia all you have to do is go down to the local Courthouse and check the public records on file with the Clerk of the Court. In July the Clerks will be required to post that information online.
And, even then as MPR posted above, guessing a SSN is trivial.
A year back when I filed for my concealed handgun permit I refused to devulge my SSN and refused to provide them my ID. You have to be careful about what information a company or a government agency collects on you and then be aware that that captured information may be compromised in the future.
Obviously, this won’t ‘fix’ the fact that a SSN is easily guessed as it precludes any check digits and is restricted further by what numbers can be assigned or not assigned.
The SSN wasn’t meant to identify people outside of taxation and social security benefits. But, since people allowed those numbers to be used for anything else, we created the problem we currently have.
Junes_Reston said on 12 Jun 2008 at 6:45 am:
Illegal aliens are now naming their children the same name as the mother, father or other family member. The Birth Certificate is used to issue a legal and valid SSN that is then used by the parent, or sold to family members. The only ones in a position to dispute the abuse are the very people who are illegally using these SSNs.
In a letter to Senator Warner, Senator Allen and Gov. Kaine two years ago I brought up that situation about birth certificates being used as you stated and received no reply for any of them. I also informed them that almost immediately after delivery, the hospitals were providing the paperwork to apply for a SS number. What a country!
Vigilant1 said on 12 Jun 2008 at 8:54 am:
Left out the fact that those SSNs can be used to register to vote.
Anchor Baby,
Concerning the CHP, how did you get your CHP without showing your ID? On the PWC gov web site it says:
Did you get it notarized by a clerk at the court? If so, when they asked for your ID, and you refused, what did they say?
Anchor Baby,
Concerning the CHP, how did you get your CHP without showing your ID? On the PWC gov web site it says:
Did you get it notarized by a clerk at the court? If so, when they asked for your ID, and you refused, what did they say?
Hey HeyAbbot:
We’re winnng, aren’t we? Can’t stand that, can you?
You’re a self-indulgent, insignificant, exploiter of slave labor. You’ve profitted up to now, and you vent your frustration in hatred toward those of us who want to put an end to the invasion of this country by the dregs of failed societies. Reap it.
Hoot,
The key wording is confirmed by the Clerk. Since my application was mailed in I sought a notary (at my bank) and confirmed my identity that way. I mailed in the application with the notary signature/seal. 45 days later I had my permit.
The website was changed after I complained that the old website said an ID was required. The Virginia Code never specifies that. The Clerk did a good job fixing the text.
Vigilant1 said on 12 Jun 2008 at 8:54 am:
Junes_Reston said on 12 Jun 2008 at 6:45 am:
Illegal aliens are now naming their children the same name as the mother, father or other family member. The Birth Certificate is used to issue a legal and valid SSN that is then used by the parent, or sold to family members. The only ones in a position to dispute the abuse are the very people who are illegally using these SSNs.
In a letter to Senator Warner, Senator Allen and Gov. Kaine two years ago I brought up that situation about birth certificates being used as you stated and received no reply for any of them. I also informed them that almost immediately after delivery, the hospitals were providing the paperwork to apply for a SS number. What a country!
==============
In their defense, there really wasn’t much they could do even if they wanted to. The SSN is tied to a name, not a date of birth.
No other immigrant group had the cahoonas to steal identities with such In Your Face impudence. They found the flaw in the system and are using it to their advantage.
For the majority of illegal aliens living in our country, it’s all about them. They live for the day and don’t think about tomorrow - even when tomorrow has a direct effect on their kids.
And these are the people our government is trying to amnestize.
http://www.opcva.com/watchdog/
Has a good number of valid SSNs that can be used for whatever purposes. And, since many of those numbers belong to legislators you can only assume they have decent credit.
The collection of SSNs by government agencies should be banned or restricted only to the purpose it was established for. Unless I’m 100% required to, I never provide my SSN. As a computer security professional I understand how easily those numbers are compromised and how easy it is to forge an identity.
Anchor Baby,
Nice work. Keep up the fight for freedom. Every victory counts. Tyranny will never die…it just changes form. But freedom can die…if we let it.
Have you ever seen the checkpointUSA channel on youtube? This guy has been doing some great work helping to preserve freedom by simply exercising his rights.
My favorite video of his:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRk3awO1Jq0
His channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/CheckpointUSA
Anchor Baby,
Don’t forget this one.
http://www.familysearch.org/
( go ahead plug in someone’s name that is deceased and see what history it pulls up, you will be amazed and then hopefully a little angry)
This is THE problem and until we correct this problem, why start another “red tape NIGHTMARE”
“No other immigrant group had the cahoonas to steal identities with such In Your Face impudence. They found the flaw in the system and are using it to their advantage.”
Much of our society is based on the Honor System. The problem comes when people who have no honor abuse it.
“There is no kind of dishonesty into which otherwise good people more easily and frequently fall than that of defrauding the government.”
Benjamin Franklin
Nice Quote
Anchor Baby,
Nice work. Keep up the fight for freedom. Every victory counts. Tyranny will never die…it just changes form. But freedom can die…if we let it.
Have you ever seen the checkpointUSA channel on youtube? This guy has been doing some great work helping to preserve freedom by simply exercising his rights.
Anon,
Yes I have. It’s sad that the CBP is hosting border checkpoints INSIDE the US instead of…I dunno ON THE BORDER. It’s our duty as Americans to make sure that the illegal checkpoints in use are removed. People should not cooperative with law enforcement when those that swear an oath to the Constitution so willfully violate it.
The Pledge and the Oath are just not words. We need to back them up with actions and rout our tyranny in all forms lest we lose our freedoms and Our country.
Red Dawn,
It showed the numbers for my grandparents and my father all of whom have passed away. Why are they allowed to publish these? Is there a stop in place that prevents them from being used after the person has passed away? I would hate for my mom to get a notice that dad owes back taxes after he has been put in the ground. That would be just devastating to her.
Magic,
The laws have to be changed. For example, in VA the General Assembly chose not to fix the issues with SSNs but rather ordered Clerks of the Court to begin posting all there records online as of 1 July. The ACLU has lauched a legal attack against the State because instead of the GA fixing the issue they passed a law saying people couldn’t do what the State themselves we’re doing.
Contact your representative and tell him that Personally Identifiable Information SHOULD be protected and that the State should ONLY collect the MINIMUM information that they need to provide a service.
You might also be interested in reading the Government Data Collection and Dissemenation Practices Act: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC02020000038000000000000
If/when you are able to opt out of providing your SSN or other PII, do it. It’s not only your duty as a citizen - it can protect your identity.
Medic,
Scary, huh? I discovered the site when told of it’s existence to help search a family tree and was shocked to see the SS#’s and history of birth, marriage and places lived.
I have that same question but as you will see in this article, there are ways to get around it. It is just wrong!
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/18495531/
Medic,
Scary huh? I was referred to the site for Family Tree help and was amazed to see the SS #’s , date and place of birth, marriage and where a person resided.
I just searched a COMMON name like : Daniel Smith and put the year 2008 and guess what? It showed the SS#.
Here is an article that I tried to post earlier.
There are some good tips at the end of it.
This is a problem, wouldn’t you say?
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/18495531/
The more I read and see things that people abuse as their “individual” rights simply to create anarchy, rebellion and crime, it makes me wonder how anyone of good intention and honesty could just sit on their butt and allow our liberally insane government representatives to allow policies and create laws with so many ridiculous and self-defeating loopholes, all in the name that we are afraid that enforcing the law might somehow be used against us as innocent people in our paranoid psychotic scenarios.
How is it that the “right to remain silent” or to “plead the 5th”, cannot simply be interpreted as “reasonable doubt and reasonable suspicion” to justify an arrest warrant right there on the sight of the offensive behavior or “reasonable commitment of an illegal act”. I’d say refusing to speak or provide requested information when asked by any law enforcement officer is just like refusing to take a breathalyzer test. You head to Jail right away until you can be brought before a judge who will sort it out.
What is the point of having law enforcement if you can’t even enforce such a simple law as arresting a person “suspected of being illegal”, like you can arrest a person “suspected of commiting a crime” or “suspected of selling drugs” or “suspected of committing a murder” or “suspected of child abuse”. Let the freakin grand jury, magistrate, or Judge, or Jury determine guilt or innocence with the proof debated, instead of letting a potential criminal go free. I quess we just think that one innocent person arrested is worth letting a thousand likely criminals go free. We have a nation of liberal idiots leading us to anarchy, criminal statehood and ethnic warfare over un-equal application of the law designed to protect more criminals than protect innocents from harm by those criminals. It makes you want to take the law back into you own hands and just deal with it on a tribal level.
I have such great sympathy for our law enforcement officers who are handicapped by every lunacy possible, just so some liberal idiot can feel good about preserving the right to be a rebellious person toward authority as if it is some God-given right.
We desperately need a national identification system that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt you are “legal” and protects you completly from identity theft. We ought to be enraged that a 9 digit un-secured SSN is even ALLOWED to prove we are who we are. GET A SECURE NATIONAL ID TO REPLACE the SSN PEOPLE! Every one else can then just be arrested and deported. No fuss, no arrogance, no lying, no rebellion! You get stopped, you show that encrypted card just like you show a Driver’s license, and it is instantly verified in all FBI and local police crime databases with the quick scan of a card reader. We have the technology people! We should use it.
Michael,
It’s not a liberal v. conservative issue. It’s more of a - do you beleive that people exist to be subservient to the govt or that the govt is subservient to it’s people.
What you propose Michael is a move towards a socialistic government where the government can control you and you have no recourse.
Local law enforcement should be provided rules and laws that they have to follow. I’m not sure why you see that as a ‘hinderence’. I have to operate and follow laws the police should do the same. The police by virtue of thier job aren’t ’super citizens’. They are just citizens that we’ve delegated certain powers of the state to to enforce laws and investigate crime. You don’t actually believe the civilian law enforcement exists to ‘protect’ you, do you?
Now, I’m not trying to be rude but have you read the Constitution? Have you read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers? Do you understand the difference between rights and powers? Because my rights are derived from my Creator doesn’t mean you can’t waive them for yourself but do NOT try to waive them for all of us. If you choose to cut and run and believe that a welfare state is what you want — that’s OK, that’s your right as a citizen. And, those of us that believe in individual vs. collective rights will keep fighting to make sure you always have that right - the right to choose to give up.
Democracy isn’t easy. It’s hard, very hard. The day we can hit the easy button on democracy is the day the ‘Reds’ have taken over.
For Michael, freedom is an enemy.
What? I’m talking about protecting “individual” rights under a common law. not advocating that “individuals” through arrogance and defiance, can create “group rights” based laws allowing them to wiggle out of a common law applied equally to all, because they belong to a different ethnic, religious, gender or racial social group.
Applying “common law” and enforcing “common law” on all individuals the same is not a “socialist state”. and yes I have read the constitution, and the debates between the power to the people and the power to a central government. The “law” is the bridge between the fair and equal application os those laws, not subject to “un-equal” enforcement, just because you complain that your “differences” in ethnicity, gender, race or religion are not recognized and dealt with as a “special” case. Socialism is by definition, wanting everyone to have the same identical wealth, with in practice, with historical evidence to prove it, creates poverty. A market economy, under common law creates wealth. The Greeks and Romans knew this, and John Adams as the framer of the constitution knew this. You cannot allow “factions” to claim different laws and different rights, than “individuals” are entitled to, as it is these factions (federalisms) that will destroy your government, peace and stability. It was Thomas Jefferson who was most concerned about individual rights, as was Patrick Henry, who also worked with ADAMS to create an individiual “bill of rights”, protecting the power of the People, from “factions”.
I’m telling you, ethnic groups are trying to apply the law differently to themselves as a “faction” and not individual rights. These “factions” create lunatic loopholes in the laws for themselves, and their “faction group” only based today on ethnicity, religion, gender and race.
Freedom is not my enemy, I fought in the US military for that, I understand it, and the price of it all too well.