Comments on: Zoning Inspectors Behaving Badly? http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/ Blog-Fu for Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park politics. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:41:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: Former COM employee http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-68029 Former COM employee Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:02:34 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-68029 Greg, you never said that and I understand what you are saying. However, your post seems to indicate it is a rumor. I will restate my earlier post, if an inspector did release a complaintants name in conflict with a written policy, he/she should be fired. However, if this inspector released a name without direction from supervisors, he/she should be trained and notified of the policy before any punishment occurs. In all my years of enforcement I always believed 99% of citizens want to do the right thing and not violate local codes and ordinances, they just need to be educated. I also believe that 99% of gov't employees want to do the right thing, they just need to be trained properly. One bad apple is a sign of a bad inspector, multiple bad apples is a sign of poor management. Greg, you never said that and I understand what you are saying. However, your post seems to indicate it is a rumor. I will restate my earlier post, if an inspector did release a complaintants name in conflict with a written policy, he/she should be fired. However, if this inspector released a name without direction from supervisors, he/she should be trained and notified of the policy before any punishment occurs. In all my years of enforcement I always believed 99% of citizens want to do the right thing and not violate local codes and ordinances, they just need to be educated. I also believe that 99% of gov’t employees want to do the right thing, they just need to be trained properly. One bad apple is a sign of a bad inspector, multiple bad apples is a sign of poor management.

]]> By: Greg L http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-68027 Greg L Sat, 14 Jun 2008 18:55:16 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-68027 Former COM, I have at least three separate reports about this, with specifics, happening over the past year. The day of this post, I received one more. I could have easily provided details about this, but instead decided that it would be better if citizens took their reports to their elected officials so this could be handled properly. I would rather see this get fixed rather than try to splash an attention-grabbing headline. My understanding is that our elected officials are compiling the information and will take it to neighborhood services, asking for corrective action. If that corrective action is taken, that's the end of this. If not, well, I suppose a different tack is in order. This is about as low-key as I get. Let's see if it works. Former COM, I have at least three separate reports about this, with specifics, happening over the past year. The day of this post, I received one more. I could have easily provided details about this, but instead decided that it would be better if citizens took their reports to their elected officials so this could be handled properly.

I would rather see this get fixed rather than try to splash an attention-grabbing headline. My understanding is that our elected officials are compiling the information and will take it to neighborhood services, asking for corrective action. If that corrective action is taken, that’s the end of this. If not, well, I suppose a different tack is in order.

This is about as low-key as I get. Let’s see if it works.

]]> By: Former COM employee http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-68025 Former COM employee Sat, 14 Jun 2008 18:02:48 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-68025 Lafayette, Thank you and there may be a bad apple in PWC. However, I just wish Greg would get all the facts before he makes a post like this. If it is found to be untrue, then the damage is done. While this is on a much smaller scale, it is like if someone is charged with rape or child molestation and later it is found out it was a false report, many people who saw the initial report will never see the follow-up report. This is my only gripe with this post. On the other hand, if any inspector is providing such information in conflict with a written policy, then he/she should be fired. On another note, there were many times when I did an inspection and the person would all ready know who complained usually because they had all ready been in some type of disagreement with the complainant. Just a bit of advice, if you are going to make a complaint and do not want your neighbor to know it was you, don't do the day after you had an argument with them ;-) Lafayette, Thank you and there may be a bad apple in PWC. However, I just wish Greg would get all the facts before he makes a post like this. If it is found to be untrue, then the damage is done. While this is on a much smaller scale, it is like if someone is charged with rape or child molestation and later it is found out it was a false report, many people who saw the initial report will never see the follow-up report. This is my only gripe with this post. On the other hand, if any inspector is providing such information in conflict with a written policy, then he/she should be fired. On another note, there were many times when I did an inspection and the person would all ready know who complained usually because they had all ready been in some type of disagreement with the complainant. Just a bit of advice, if you are going to make a complaint and do not want your neighbor to know it was you, don’t do the day after you had an argument with them ;-)

]]> By: Lafayette http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-68016 Lafayette Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:26:47 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-68016 corr: I really *THINK* the point is there is a “bad apple” in PWC’s PCE. corr: I really *THINK* the point is there is a “bad apple” in PWC’s PCE.

]]> By: Lafayette http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-68015 Lafayette Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:23:47 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-68015 Former COM employee, Thanks for a great post and your service to the City. I really the point is there is a "bad apple" in PWC's PCE. An inspector does NOT need to to say the name of the person. There are little hints that can be dropped while the initial inspection is going on. The inspector could look in the direction of the person who called in the violation or they could drop hints in conversation or casually show the name on the intake sheet. I don't think the point of this thread it that all inspectors are bad at all. I can tell you we have two excellent inspectors. I called two of them out by name at Citizens' Time for all their hard work and dedication. When I got back to my seat the woman sitting behind me tapped me on the shoulder and very proudly told me that MJ was her daughter. I agree we do have many that serve our county and city proudly. I can certainly see as you were one of those proud/dedicated employees. Thanks again. Former COM employee,
Thanks for a great post and your service to the City.
I really the point is there is a “bad apple” in PWC’s PCE. An inspector does NOT need to to say the name of the person. There are little hints that can be dropped while the initial inspection is going on. The inspector could look in the direction of the person who called in the violation or they could drop hints in conversation or casually show the name on the intake sheet. I don’t think the point of this thread it that all inspectors are bad at all. I can tell you we have two excellent inspectors. I called two of them out by name at Citizens’ Time for all their hard work and dedication. When I got back to my seat the woman sitting behind me tapped me on the shoulder and very proudly told me that MJ was her daughter. I agree we do have many that serve our county and city proudly. I can certainly see as you were one of those proud/dedicated employees. Thanks again.

]]> By: Former COM employee http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67991 Former COM employee Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:36:43 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67991 If the inspectors released anyones names they may have violated a county or city policy, but they did not violate the FOI laws therefore did not commit a crime. Mr. Cooper 11:59, I am a very proud former City of Manassas employee for over 21 years serving as the Deputy Zoning Administrator/Lead Zoning Inspector and then as a Property Maintenance Inspector/Assistant Fire Marshal and I never one time ever released the name of anyone who filed a complaint. I still know all the inspectors and I know for a fact that they are good people who would not either. The policy for the City is that complainant's names of zoning violations are not to be released and as the first Property Maintenance Inspector for the City can say that I was never asked to release a name of a complainant involving a property maintenance complaint. If I had been asked I would have sent it to the City Attorney and we would have made every attempt to legally withhold that information. I served the citizens of Manassas for many years and am proud of the service I provided. When I was growing up my mother told me that you catch more flys with honey then you do with vinegar. What do you think County and City employees think when all you do is bash them. Most City/County employees don't earn enough to live in the community they serve but they serve proudly. This is not to say there aren't bad apples and I do not know many County employees but I know there are very dedicated City inspectors who would not provide that information unless directed to provide it. It is real nice of Greg to get on here and make statements that he has not backed up. I do not understand why he would even make such a post and then say "may be improperly divulging" without confirming it. But maybe Greg has an alterior motive, maybe he has it out for the inspectors! Now I have no proof of this but I see no logical reason for making such a statement without the proof. This is no better than the Journal Messenger and some of the antics they do. Greg, you owe an apology to the County employees unless you can prove what you have alleged. I wont hold my breath though! If the inspectors released anyones names they may have violated a county or city policy, but they did not violate the FOI laws therefore did not commit a crime. Mr. Cooper 11:59, I am a very proud former City of Manassas employee for over 21 years serving as the Deputy Zoning Administrator/Lead Zoning Inspector and then as a Property Maintenance Inspector/Assistant Fire Marshal and I never one time ever released the name of anyone who filed a complaint. I still know all the inspectors and I know for a fact that they are good people who would not either. The policy for the City is that complainant’s names of zoning violations are not to be released and as the first Property Maintenance Inspector for the City can say that I was never asked to release a name of a complainant involving a property maintenance complaint. If I had been asked I would have sent it to the City Attorney and we would have made every attempt to legally withhold that information. I served the citizens of Manassas for many years and am proud of the service I provided. When I was growing up my mother told me that you catch more flys with honey then you do with vinegar. What do you think County and City employees think when all you do is bash them. Most City/County employees don’t earn enough to live in the community they serve but they serve proudly. This is not to say there aren’t bad apples and I do not know many County employees but I know there are very dedicated City inspectors who would not provide that information unless directed to provide it. It is real nice of Greg to get on here and make statements that he has not backed up. I do not understand why he would even make such a post and then say “may be improperly divulging” without confirming it. But maybe Greg has an alterior motive, maybe he has it out for the inspectors! Now I have no proof of this but I see no logical reason for making such a statement without the proof. This is no better than the Journal Messenger and some of the antics they do. Greg, you owe an apology to the County employees unless you can prove what you have alleged. I wont hold my breath though!

]]> By: long time http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67935 long time Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:20:35 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67935 This is an amazing discussion, and as a proud native born tax paying US citizen has me in shock and awe. Locally, Manassas has been sued by the Federal Government for alledged improprieties in how they shared data (by giving out the names/addresses of of violators). Yet people are saying that the zoning enforcers can give out the names/addresses of the complaintants. If this isn't a double standard protecting law breakers at the expense of the law abiding public what is?? Instead of protests, maybe it's time we as citizens sued our own Government. I know you're innocent until proven guilty, that's not the issue of this discussion. How about a few of the attorneys who read and comment on this blog helping me understand. This is an amazing discussion, and as a proud native born tax paying US citizen has me in shock and awe. Locally, Manassas has been sued by the Federal Government for alledged improprieties in how they shared data (by giving out the names/addresses of of violators). Yet people are saying that the zoning enforcers can give out the names/addresses of the complaintants. If this isn’t a double standard protecting law breakers at the expense of the law abiding public what is?? Instead of protests, maybe it’s time we as citizens sued our own Government.

I know you’re innocent until proven guilty, that’s not the issue of this discussion. How about a few of the attorneys who read and comment on this blog helping me understand.

]]> By: TDB http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67931 TDB Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:57:28 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67931 I have a house in Fairfax that happens to be vacant which had a PODS in the driveway for about 6 months. Also, there were about 2 dozen moving boxes in the carport. One of the neighbors complained to zoning. My wife went by the house to check on some landscaping we had done and the zoning inspector was there taking pictures. Turns out the PODS was already gone, but we still had te boxes in the car port. Anyway, the inspector was holding his clipboard so that my wife could see the complainant's name. Easy way of divulging the name without uttering a word. Why should the inspector even have access to the complainant's name? That information does nothing to assist him in his duties. I have a house in Fairfax that happens to be vacant which had a PODS in the driveway for about 6 months. Also, there were about 2 dozen moving boxes in the carport. One of the neighbors complained to zoning. My wife went by the house to check on some landscaping we had done and the zoning inspector was there taking pictures. Turns out the PODS was already gone, but we still had te boxes in the car port. Anyway, the inspector was holding his clipboard so that my wife could see the complainant’s name. Easy way of divulging the name without uttering a word.

Why should the inspector even have access to the complainant’s name? That information does nothing to assist him in his duties.

]]> By: Dan Cooper http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67920 Dan Cooper Fri, 13 Jun 2008 03:59:09 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67920 Come on, you don't really think that the inspectors or the police would tell them who called, do you? Please note sarcism here! The authorities in many cases have released such information in Manassas City. And it does cause problems. Come on, you don’t really think that the inspectors or the police would tell them who called, do you?

Please note sarcism here!

The authorities in many cases have released such information in Manassas City. And it does cause problems.

]]> By: Taco Truck Ted http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67919 Taco Truck Ted Fri, 13 Jun 2008 03:44:38 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67919 I have been complaining about this place for over 1 year! http://www.zillow.com/aerial/DualMapPage.htm?zpid=37520815 If you move the picture towards the garage you will see the many other taco trucks! I have been complaining about this place for over 1 year!

http://www.zillow.com/aerial/DualMapPage.htm?zpid=37520815

If you move the picture towards the garage you will see the many other taco trucks!

]]> By: anon 2 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67917 anon 2 Fri, 13 Jun 2008 03:29:14 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67917 Taco Truck Ted, I think I might be lost in what you are saying. Are you referring to the new picture vs. the old picture below it that shows the changes and the trucks parked there? Is someone not following the rules in MD? Maybe I am coming in on the tail end of something but I’ve re-read the blog and I have been trying to figure it all out. For now I will close my eyes and perhaps it will be clearer for me in the morning. In any case good luck in your endeavors!!!! Taco Truck Ted,

I think I might be lost in what you are saying. Are you referring to the new picture vs. the old picture below it that shows the changes and the trucks parked there? Is someone not following the rules in MD?

Maybe I am coming in on the tail end of something but I’ve re-read the blog and I have been trying to figure it all out.

For now I will close my eyes and perhaps it will be clearer for me in the morning.

In any case good luck in your endeavors!!!!

]]> By: Taco Truck Ted http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67915 Taco Truck Ted Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:43:43 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67915 I believe the thread is titled: Zoning Inspectors Behaving Badly? Go to this site to see if it is a accurate statement for PG county! http://www.zillow.com/aerial/DualMapPage.htm?zpid=37520815 I believe the thread is titled: Zoning Inspectors Behaving Badly?

Go to this site to see if it is a accurate statement for PG county!

http://www.zillow.com/aerial/DualMapPage.htm?zpid=37520815

]]> By: Taco Truck Ted http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67914 Taco Truck Ted Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:41:47 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67914 I didn't get a chance to go school until the Riots were over, so I fell behind early and I've been trying to catch up ever since! Everyday my fingernails are dirty, but my conscience is clean. I didn’t get a chance to go school until the Riots were over, so I fell behind early and I’ve been trying to catch up ever since! Everyday my fingernails are dirty, but my conscience is clean.

]]> By: Taco Truck Ted http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67913 Taco Truck Ted Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:38:34 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67913 JM said Taco Truck Ted, It’s PULITZER prize. Sheesh! Thanks for the correction. JM said

Taco Truck Ted,

It’s PULITZER prize. Sheesh!

Thanks for the correction.

]]> By: JM http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67909 JM Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:16:36 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67909 Anchor Baby, GOVERNMENT should be transparent, but as CITIZENS we have the right to PRIVACY. Therefore the actions of zoning and code enforcement inspectors may be public record, but the complainant's name should ALWAYS be redacted. Taco Truck Ted, It's PULITZER prize. Sheesh! Anchor Baby,

GOVERNMENT should be transparent, but as CITIZENS we have the right to PRIVACY. Therefore the actions of zoning and code enforcement inspectors may be public record, but the complainant’s name should ALWAYS be redacted.

Taco Truck Ted,

It’s PULITZER prize. Sheesh!

]]> By: Taco Truck Ted http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67905 Taco Truck Ted Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:01:51 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67905 And Jack the pultzer prize fraud! And Jack the pultzer prize fraud!

]]> By: Lafayette http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67903 Lafayette Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:58:56 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67903 anon2, Thanks. We are probably dealing with a different batch of inspectors. I've been told they aren't assigned to a specific part of the county. However, we seem to have the same ones up here all of the time. I'm very grateful we have two really good inspectors up here, and one not so good. Clearly, there are more than three inspectors I've dealt with. It's just I've been working with these same three for about three years on a consistant basis. Yeah, it's on the come back here in the Gainesville District. I am pleased to say the tall grass is almost all gone from our area. I spoke to several of the mowing contractors on their first cuts of the season, and they all said from here on out they'd be maintaining the yard throughout the summer. This is great news. Another sign of improvement is the we have half the vacant houses on my block then we did just two months ago. I remind myself daily this mess didn't happen overnight, and it most certainly will NOT go away overnight. anon2,

Thanks. We are probably dealing with a different batch of inspectors. I’ve been told they aren’t assigned to a specific part of the county. However, we seem to have the same ones up here all of the time. I’m very grateful we have two really good inspectors up here, and one not so good. Clearly, there are more than three inspectors I’ve dealt with. It’s just I’ve been working with these same three for about three years on a consistant basis.

Yeah, it’s on the come back here in the Gainesville District. I am pleased to say the tall grass is almost all gone from our area. I spoke to several of the mowing contractors on their first cuts of the season, and they all said from here on out they’d be maintaining the yard throughout the summer. This is great news. Another sign of improvement is the we have half the vacant houses on my block then we did just two months ago. I remind myself daily this mess didn’t happen overnight, and it most certainly will NOT go away overnight.

]]> By: anon 2 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67902 anon 2 Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:50:06 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67902 Lafayette, We live on the east end of the county. We have a mess here and it is slowly getting better. Lafayette,

We live on the east end of the county. We have a mess here and it is slowly getting better.

]]> By: Lafayette http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67899 Lafayette Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:44:38 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67899 corr: I guess, we have to pick OUR battles. corr: I guess, we have to pick OUR battles.

]]> By: Lafayette http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67897 Lafayette Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:44:02 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/06/12/zoning-inspectors-behaving-badly/#comment-67897 anon2, We are definately on the same page! I too have always been told my name wouldn't be given out, and it's on the e-mail complaint form. I have heard from a couple of friends that within a week of turning complaints in, a PCE inspector was knocking at their doors. Sadly, I do feel there are some that would "use" PCE as a form of harrassment of their neighbors. Trust me, there are a few cases I've turned in that I would go to court if needed. I can't say I would do this for all violations. I agree, it should OUR choice to appear in court. I guess, we have to pick out battles. ;) Our PCE inspectors are not above the law. If there's something "funny" going on with inspector(s). Then let the investigation(s) begin. Curious, do you live in the Western or the Eastern end of the county? anon2,
We are definately on the same page! I too have always been told my name wouldn’t be given out, and it’s on the e-mail complaint form.

I have heard from a couple of friends that within a week of turning complaints in, a PCE inspector was knocking at their doors. Sadly, I do feel there are some that would “use” PCE as a form of harrassment of their neighbors.

Trust me, there are a few cases I’ve turned in that I would go to court if needed. I can’t say I would do this for all violations. I agree, it should OUR choice to appear in court. I guess, we have to pick out battles. ;)

Our PCE inspectors are not above the law. If there’s something “funny” going on with inspector(s). Then let the investigation(s) begin.

Curious, do you live in the Western or the Eastern end of the county?

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