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Finally, The Wall Comes Down
By Greg L | 5 September 2008 | Manassas City | 127 Comments
The Washington Post is reporting that Gaudencio Fernandez is finally acknowledging that his act of civic vandalism on Prince William Street has to go, and in advance of today’s court hearing has decided to finally demolish the structure that has been long been an eyesore in the historic district, and finally comply with the demolition order issued on April 12th, 2007. Despite Fernandez’ longstanding claims that his actions have been lawful, he will not apparently try to defend those actions in court and instead is seeking to have the case dismissed by finally abating the nuisance he’s caused on the last day he could possibly do so.
If there’s a lesson to be gained through this ordeal, it’s that deference to determined lawbreakers with a political constituency doesn’t work. Manassas City bent over backwards trying to coddle this guy, and instead of him responding with the same deference, he only managed to change the messages on his billboard, host parties at the site, and flaunt his disdain for the law except when he felt it was a good idea to enclose it with a fence festooned with “no trespassing” signs. No, radicals like this this must be dealt with the same as you or I would expect to be if we decided to flaunt building and zoning codes. Radicals will apparently respect the consequences of a court, even as they disrespect the consequences that municipal building and zoning inspectors can levy.
With nothing left to tie him to this community other than an interest in a plot of dirt, Gaudencio Fernandez should pick up and move on. He’s had his fun and done his very best to annoy everyone he possibly could in the community, but that is over. It is unlikely that the deferential treatment he has been afforded will ever be offered again, and the next time he decides to do something stupid the consequences will likely be swift and educational. They better be. Fernandez can undoubtably find locales much more appreciative of his unique style of municipal defacement, and he should avail himself of the opportunity to relocate to one of them.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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127 Comments
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The guy is scum. Finally glad to see that racist and supportive of illegals sign of his come down.
MJM reported that on-going discussions this week with the owners resulted in a agreement to take the sign down. The article further stated that there was give-and-take on both sides. Wonder what the MCC gave this dirtbag to remove that abomination? Maybe he’ll get a zoning request approved for another bunkhouse on the site!
fernandez is a piece of garbage, he should move to haymarket
he would be closer to his supporters.
The guy is scum. fernandez is a piece of garbage. Wonder what the MCC gave this dirtbag to remove that abomination?
No, this man is a human being. He was exercising his 1st amendment rights. Even though the sign is gone, it will be remembered it as a symbol of those who stood up for their right to express freedom of speech.
I am sure you will all regret that it is gone. What will you bitch and moan about now?
Has the sign actually come down, or is this just another tactic of his in his attempt to avert justice?
When white people invaded Turtle Island they tried to paint the peaceful indigenous people in way that is really what the white invaders were. You savages came and said our people were savages. When in fact we were a peaceful people void of violence, per La Casas. When you had just spent 1000 years in a dark age of muder, violence, theft, death, destruction and rape. Without a doubt when the Europeans invaded they were the true savages. Yet you said that we were the savages. So the European way is to call someone else what they actually are. For emaple you are calling Native Americans immigrants when in fact you are the only immigrants here. See the pattern.
So we see from the pattern that Elvis is calling himself garbage. Vigilant 1 is calling himself a dirtbag. Marc is calling himself a racist. And Greg is acknowledging that his words along with his website is “civil vanalism” and that he is an bating nuisance. Oh by the way Greg do you even know where the word vandalism comes from. It was coined to describe how destructive Europeans are. The Vandals were so savage and destructive during the European dark ages that you had a word created to describe what you truly do–vandalism.
IndigenousNativeAmerican,
You assume quite a lot with your hate talk here. How do you know that everyone here is “white”? I am, myself, part Native American with some mix of European decent. I think that that sign is completely and utterly racist and for you to think that all “white” people are savages, then that make you a racist too.
I just drove by there today–looks like they are having a wake. Balloons, photographer etc.
May it rest it peace–finally
Guess I won’t get my wish and see it burned to the ground by flamethrower.
@IndigenousNativeAmerican
You’re not very up-to-date on your Turtle Island lore. The Spanish enslaved and killed their fair share of IndigenousNativeAmericans.
The citizens of this County will not look at this as losing something great.
WE ARE GLAD TO SEE IT GO.AND NOW ON TO THE NEXT UNDERTAKING.
Only the feebleminded will cherish and photo the removal.
We will look at it as another nusceince gone.
To keep our County attractive we will press on, till we have it back how it should be.
GREAT NEWS THAT THE SIGN IS COMING DOWN. GUESS IT’S BETTER LATE THAN NEVER.
Does anyone know - if a house burns down on property zoned residential, located in a residential neighborhood, is there any requirement that the property actually be restored to its original intent, i.e., construct a house? Or can it be left empty for whatever personal use (storage, parties, press conferences, etc.), thus bringing down surrounding property values? I am asking regarding, not only the Manassas City property, but also in PW County.
Sure you can leave it empty. What you can’t do is use it for a purpose that conflicts with the residential zoning. Not sure about storage, parties, press conferences vs. residential zoning - you’d want to look at zoning ordinances for that.
IndigenousNativeAmerican,
oh my lord! you need to do some research on history buddy. nuff’ said about that one. are you at least semi-educated? you can do a quick google search right? did you get your information from the zapatista website or something? or maybe the association for anarchist latinos? get real dude and relax, take an enema or something.
Let’s have a pi**ing party tonight and go pi** all over Fernandez’ lawn. Oh, wait. We are American and speak English, we might get in trouble for loitering and public urination.
Maybe we can hire some day laborers to do it for us?
I almost crashed into a light pole yesterday evening applauding when I drove by and saw it being taken down. Just proves what a public nuisance it was. Good ridance!
Don’t inhale while putting a powdered donut in your mouth.
Thanks, BG!
mmmm donuts.
What about #2 on the lawn? How about collecting up a bunch of dog/horse/cow waste and putting that over the fence?
I guess I went by there just before they started to take it down. All I saw was several people, including a cameraman, there like it was a party or something. Was Biden invited?
Good sign. Up here in Canada I repeat over and over the same thing.
The Original Peoples from Mexico are not illegal aliens. The Canadian, US and Mexican governments are the illegal aliens.
Turtle Island is the English language translation of many Native American tribes’ terms for the continent of North America. So, Elvis maybe you are the one who needs the history lesson.
The Spanish did the same thing to southern indigenous Native Americans as the British did in the north. Read your history books.
Elvis, Marc, Vigilant1, KP, Mando, Not the Taco Truck Ted, Rick Bentley, long time, legal2, Brentsville Graduate It is a shame that grown men and women can not express themselves without stooping to vile name calling. Calling Mr. Hernandez a scum, dirt bag and bag of garbage makes you appear to be ignorant and without enough command of the English language that you have no other way to express yourself. Your posts are crude and distasteful and all of you should really remember what you learned in kindergarten.
Hey Mr. Part Indian KP guy. You know how many times I here white people trying to be Indian, “my GG grandmother was a Cherokee Indian princess”. Give me a break and be proud to of who you are. Can you repeat after me, “I am white and I am proud”. When did speaking the truth become hate speech. I re-read what I wrote. I never said all white people were savages. Typical right wing Euro behavior of twisting people’s words to say what they did not say. Ain’t going to work here buddy!!!
Elvis: Love to take you on head to head in a debate any time fellow. We will see who knows what. There is so much that is considered history in this illegal country that is pure propaganda. And unfortunately most white people are unwilling to here the truth of what they have done and are doing in the world. But the truth is the truth.
Mando dude. This is the kind of ignorance that I am speaking of. Don’t you even know that Spain is in Europe. Spanish people are Europeans and white. People from Mexico who speak spanish are no more Spanish than a Native American who speaks English is English.
Greg where do you get these people from?
Wow, the screwballs are out today!! Approaching low pressure system?
Way to go IndigenousNativeAmerican. Where the heck have you been? I guess these guys failed history and geography cllass.
“Spanish people are Europeans and white. People from Mexico who speak spanish are no more Spanish than a Native American who speaks English is English.”
I knew that but I didn’t know you knew that. Now that I know you have special powers given to you by your ancient Turtle Island Shamans to detect bloodlines of all Mexican peoples that illegally cross the US border and stamp them as “pure blooded” indigenious Mexicans with no trace of Spanish blood I will concede the argument.
Would you please ask your Turtle Island Shaman to
tell our Washington Redskins to wake up before the
next game? Thanks. Run-um, pass-um score more!
Anita Break said on 5 Sep 2008 at 11:52 am:
No, this man is a human being. He was exercising his 1st amendment rights.
Jeffrey Dahmer was also a human being!
“Jeffrey Dahmer was also a human being!”
No… he ATE human beings.
“Would you please ask your Turtle Island Shaman to
tell our Washington Redskins to wake up before the
next game?”
I consulted the Shamans. They granted me that ONLY after the Redskins change their name to the “The Washington Indigenious Peoples of America” OR “The Turtle Island Terrors” will they bestow upon them a winning season.
IndigenousNativeAmerican said on 5 Sep 2008 at 2:46 pm:
“Spanish people are Europeans and white. People from Mexico who speak spanish are no more Spanish than a Native American who speaks English is English.”
The people of Spain thank you for the clarification. The ONLY similarity is the language and the “natives” have bastardized that.
IndigenousNativeAmerican must have crawled out from under the sign where he has been livinG. Hasn’t been on this blog IN MANY MOONS!
VIVA ESPANA!
Won’t be the last we hear of Gaudencio. Let’s hope he moves to FFX and takes full advantage of his rights by law.
Is it just me, or do a whole lot of non-whites enjoy the rights and privileges provided by our Constitution? You know, the document written by white guys? The one that says. “…all men are created equal.” The most successful governments on earth were founded by and are run by whites. Is that a racist statement, or a fact? Is there anybody out there, regardless of who you are, that would rather live in China? How about Africa, or the Middle East? Ladies?
There are those who celebrate and enjoy the protections provided by our laws and the Constitution and those who take advantage and make a mockery of them.
I respect those who contribute to their communities and our society. They are citizens that I am proud to defend. Those who take and do not give back, I hold in disdain. I defend them as well.
Let the racism crap go. It’s the first thing that the liberals spout when their arguments fall apart.
My “ignore” button is on.
Standard apologies to all who are offended.
Hey…Native American Dude..
Yeah..the Native Americans were all peaceful people…..Such as the Abnaki tribes in Maine and Canada who were cannibals and made a living by raping, robbing and pillaging their neighbors. The Abnakis were over joyed when the English settlers showed up because the English had all sorts of goodies the Abnakis could STEAL. The Abnakis didn’t have to settle for stealing neighboring tribes’ women…Now they could STEAL guns , iron pots, knives,etc…The French used the Abnakis as mercenaries to attack the English settlements because everyone feared the Abnakis’ dining habits the most.
Also try googling “Kenniwick Man”….you’ll find that the white man is the real “Native American” and had North America settled thousands of years before the asian tribes crossed the Bering Straight.
Me thinks you is full of poo poo.
And…If the white man WAS here first as the scientific evidence points to…Then they were exterminated by YOUR ancestors…. Shame…Shame..You can be the VICTIMS anymore….
GET A LIFE!!!!1
“You CAN’T be the VICTIMS anymore……GET A LIFE!!!!
It’s about time the sign came down! I’m actually surprised that nobody every vandalized it.
Johnson, I agree with you 100%. I get so tired of the race card.
I will be celebrating the removal of the wall this evening and I have a strong feeling that many others will be as well!
They can not hold parties with out obtaining a permit. They have also violated that ordinance and have been cited for it.
They can not store anything on the property unless they do so without violating zoning laws, which they have done and have been cited for.
dont forget that it was the race coddling of your council that allowed this travesty to go on for as long as it did. making back room deals with law breakers because they are brown is inexcusable and we all know that is what went on here. tis sad the state of affairs in this country right now where if you are any race but white you get everything handed to you on a silver platter and laws dont apply to you. remember the failure of your council.
Gaudencio Fernandez is a fine man and I am proud to call him a friend.
Much of what is said on his sign is historical fact. The part that is opinion, I happen to mostly agree with. He does paint whites (of which I am one) with a broad brush; but he is describing a dominant culture and power structure that was created by and remains overwhelmingly controlled by Caucasians, not attacking individuals. I find his analysis of the power structure and the ways it relates to his community to be right on.
Yes, the sign was outside of the law. But there is no recourse under the law to indigenous people who have crossed international borders. No legal pathway is offered. Gaudencio and others that he works with have tried every legal avenue available to them to have their grievances addressed. The attacks on their community continued unabated and he continued the struggle using the most effective resource available to him, control of that piece of property. I would have a serious lack of respect for anyone not wiling to take the same kind of stand.
It’s perfectly legal for politicians to craft trade policies that devastate the economies and environments of countries to the south. It’s perfectly legal for US and multinational corporations to reap obscene profits from this. It’s perfectly legal for well-funded lobbyists for Wackenhut, Blackwater and other corporations to influence border policy to one that destroys families while improving their portfolios. It’s perfectly legal for the entire countryside to be polluted by billboards advertising cheap hamburgers and plastic trinkets. But let an indigenous man take a principled stand in defense of his people and listen to the racist insults fly.
This country is changing, like it or not. I heard some recent census figure that suggest that 20% of the population under age 4 in this country is foreign born (Many or most actually people indigenous to this continent). In 20 years whites will be the minority in this country. Trying to stop that is like trying to stop the sun from rising. What are you people so afraid of? Our generation has the opportunity to reach out in friendship, to shut up and listen to some other perspectives, to change the destructive course that we are on.
In this divisive and hate-filled climate, I can readily understand why an indigenous person would be reluctant to use their real name in this forum. But as to the rest of you who throw around the racist insults so freely, why won’t you use your real names and publicly stand behind your comments? Again, what are you so afraid of?
Now I’m officially “Indigenous_Elvis” in tribute the fool who declares himself a “native american” what a crock! The sign is down, live it. Hopefully it wont be back, I hope he spent a good deal on legal fees! I’m sure the attorney saw a sure loss with old guadencio coming. as a side note, does that guy even speak english? he looks like a hood to me. I’m wondering if he’s a daylaborer or an illegal himself?
many questions about that guy? Also have heard much from that Ricardo guy from MWB, wonder what he’s up to? Wonder if he got deported?
I hear there are two fine outhouses for sale now. They can also be converted to Mexican condos if need be. I guess the 9500 Liberty site will have to be renamed 9500 Vacant Lot!
Rick,
“Let’s have a pi**ing party tonight and go pi** all over Fernandez’ lawn. Oh, wait. We are American and speak English, we might get in trouble for loitering and public urination.
Maybe we can hire some day laborers to do it for us?”
Is that all you have in your brain? You just pasted the same message you wrote in the other blog. Nobody liked there nor here.
You should call yourself Elvis Palin: You attack people with no substance
Jeff,
Take your BS somewhere else. The guy broke the law, and continued to break the law. He was wrong and the fact he took the sign down proves he was wrong and breaking the law.
The vast majority of Central American Nations, and Mexico are third World cess pools that are run by the same sort of “men” as Gaudencio Fernandez is. What if we all decided to break the law by doing what we wanted? Do you think America would still be a great place to live? There are reasons why we have laws and why we enforce laws, and why laws need to be enforced.
There is a reason why Mexico is on the verge of collapse, the criminals have taken over. Is that what you want for America? If not, don’t defend people like Fernandez, who clearly does not have a respect for the law.
Jeff Winder you’re a left wing loone. Please go back and cross over the Mexican border, but this time stay there.
How come we never hear anout the IndigenousNativeAmerican aka Mexicans demanding anything in Mexico? Why is it they whine here? Go back and change your own country and leave our’s alone!
Mr. Winder, pardon me, but you are an idiot. the City did everything right in this case. Yes, i said the City did everything right. Please, those of you who want to blame the City so much can keep it to yourself. The City did not take any action against Mr. Fernandez originally because he fell under the umbrella of free speach. He set the legal action in motion when he added on to the sign without a permit. If he didn’t try to shove it in everyone elses face and add on to the sign it would probably still be there today because the City had no legal recourse. Say what you want the City could have done this or could have done that, but I trust the City Attorney much more than I trust a bunch of people on here who slept at a Holiday Inn express last night and think they are an attorney. I 100% am against everything on that sign, but I had a father and two brothers that fought for him to say the things he said. By the way, he does speak English and he owns his own home remolding business. And believe it or not, he once told me he excelled in remolding historic/old homes. I firmly believe he bought the property with the sole intent of rezoning the property for commercial use and I believe the citizens of Manassas will have to fight him on a rezoning application for that property in the near future. That is unless the deal that was made by the City Council was they agree not to continue with the prosecution and he agrees not to submit a rezoning application. No one knows what deal was made and everyone is ready to hang the Council for something they have no idea about. I worked for the City for 21 1/2 years and can say the City is in good hands and the citizens should be happy. I wont use my real name but just do a little leg work and you can find out who I am.
And from the department of redundancy department, we have…..IndigenousNativeAmerican!! Must be full moon.
Mr. Winder, you have bought into the victim mentality fostered by revisionist history taught in schools over the last several decades. You are enabling other poorly educated useful tools who don’t appreciate what America stands for, but who want to choose which laws (if any) to follow, and when they don’t get their own way, call others racist and play the victim. Enough of that neurosis. Time to put Our Country First.
I tend to agree that there is an underlying motive of greed. Rezoning the property to commercial would benefit only one conniving person.
What makes anyone from another country think they have the audacity to protest here when they won’t do it in their NATIVE country. If he is from Mexico, then why doesn’t he take his ignorant ass and sign back to where he is a NATIVE. He is not a native of Manassas and neither are anyone that is a native of Central America (or anywhere else). That is why they call it “Their Homeland” and send US dollars there instead of spending it here.
You can always tell who the true savages are because they are the ones calling other people names. Making claims on property that belongs to others. Making arrogant boastful claims with no foundation.
Jeff Winder @ 5 Sep 2008 at 6:26 pm:
But as to the rest of you who throw around the racist insults so freely, why won’t you use your real names and publicly stand behind your comments? Again, what are you so afraid of?
Try MS13, Sur13 for starters. Just poor Latinos who only come here to do the jobs Americans won’t.
Anonymous said on 5 Sep 2008 at 7:44 pm:
I hear there are two fine outhouses for sale now.
You neglected to add they are UNUSED!
You guys talking about greed is like a drunk giving a lecture on not drinking.
Mexico, the U.S., Canada and all other current countries on Turtle Island are illegal regimes. We indigenous people have nothing to do with the internal euro-squabbles between the phony regimes and their silly borders, on our land.
The good news is that it is all temporary. And you all know it and this is why you are so driven from fear. This is why you are so outspoken and violent. You are scared because you built your home on someone else’s land and now the true owners are coming back to reclaim their land.
This is NOT your country, NOT your land. It never has been and never will be. It is fine if you want to live an illusion but this is all that it is. We would be willing to share what we have with you but first you must surrender, you must repent, you must be silent, you must be humble. You must give up your aggressive, greedy and violent ways driven from fear.
Lets be clear when you leave our land please take your money, your buildings, your freeways, your cities, your technology with you. It has all been built on the wrong foundation and our prophecies have said from before you came what would be the destiny. And we now see this destiny drawing nearer to us with each passing day.
“The Seventh Prophet was younger than the others who had come and there was a glowing light from his eyes. He said that there would come a time when the waters had been so poisoned that the animals and plants that lived there would fall sick and begin to die. Much of the forests and prairies would be gone so the air would begin to lose the power of life.* The way of the mind brought to the red, black, and yellow nation by the white nation would bring danger to the whole earth.”
Indig: You truly sound delusional. Here’s a fact–Indian tribes were not the peace-loving peoples you think they were. They scalped and pillaged EACH OTHER. Go and read history, not propaganda.
You’re not willing to give up your casinos and tax-free lives, are you?
What a nutcase. We have to take OUR money, our buildings, our freeways, our cities and our technology with us? Who are WE? Are you suggesting, INA, that the White Man is solely responsible for all of those goodies? My goodness, if that is the case, who will support all the freeloaders, then, when we all go away and take our roads with us? I thought they came here to escape poverty, to enjoy a more modern and affluent way of life.
Of course, INA is sitting at a desk using a high-speed internet connection to type this tripe. Whatever will he do when WE pack up and leave, taking that technology with us? Oh, right, he’ll be humbly living off the land like his forefathers.
If our society sucks so much, why does evryone want to live here?
Because the check ALWAYS clears!
Hey Jeff: Wah, wah, wah. “White” has nothing to do with the truth and facts. So you really believe all us “anglos”, including yourself, are rapist, murderers, slave owners and land grabbers? Have you given your house back yet? If you haven’t, it goes to show what you really believe and feel. Go pedal your elitist ideals to some who believes fairy tales and lies.
Hey Fernandez: You got away with your B.S. for a long time. Truth be told, you lied and fed B.S. that only a fool would believe. Take your sign, your screwed up beliefs along with Jeff to San Freaksicko (illegals do a good job of murdereing innocent “white” families there) or Alexandria(another “sanctuary” city) run by morons and elected by morons.
Hey Illegals: Adios!
Personally I don’t give one hoot what anyone says about Turtle Island. It is just a gimmick to make everyone forget about that stupid, racist, full of hatred sick ideas on that freaking sign of stupidity and ignorance.
If Mexico is so damn great, why in the hell isn’t everyone trying to get there?!
Why doesn’t Mexico go form a navy with all that drug money, their gangs and corrupt government, and go kick Spain’s ass. After all, they all talk their language, not their own.
It’s always great to see a symbol of ignorance and darkness fall before the irresistable force of common sense in America.
Good Lord, Liberals! If you hate America so much, why don’t you move to Canada?
Johnson,
Good grief and late in the evening I leave this message, why did Greg move from Canada? ( disclaimer, I drank to many American beers, opps,not anymore, they have been SOLD out) Just kidding
[Ed note: RD, why are you making stuff up about me? I was born in the USA. Perhaps you’re listening too much to some fools elsewhere who consistently have trouble getting their facts straight.]
IndigenousNativeAmerican,
Thank you for taking your time to come on to this blog and smear our faces in your hopes for a better America. How do you base your assumption on the premise of ‘fear’? Americans that disagree with your doctrine of dogmatic drool are displaying their indignation towards the audacious attacks towards the homeland which they love. How tyrannical of you to redefine how american history was written. Persons like yourself have developed the art of being argumentative to arouse the listener to sit up and pay attention. you have gotten our attention! Now, research for yourself the money trail from the USA to Mexico. In addition to the constant line of credit that is extended to the country, millions of foreign aid goes in to pay the support check each month. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you go along and do goodwill below the border of the country that you hold in contempt. Close the door on your way out!
“By the way, he does speak English and he owns his own home remolding business.”
He’s very limited in what he’s allowed to legally do with his contractor’s license. He is not allowed to do plumbing or electrical work and he only has a Class C license, which is the easiest to get, and limits him to jobs worth less than $7500. He also is not allowed to construct additions to existing structures (ie, an additional room).
Red Dawn-
I think he left so that he could purchase high capacity magazines for his Glock.
Colonial83 said on: No the white man is not solely responsible for all of those things. You used stolen people on stolen land and stolen resources to create your dream–your dream if a false dream. Your god is money and materialism. It is an illusion from fear and scarcity created while living like savages in Europe that is now destroying the world if not stopped. There is only so much of your destruction that mother earth will take before she kicks your a–. So you just keep on going, building, developing, raping, murdering, clear cutting, mining, polluting and domesticating.
monticup: Please cut the ignorance. Yes, anyone will become violent when beaten, raped, abused murdered for decades. The question is what does the history show at the beginning of the invasion. The problem is that you guys are ignorant and don’t even know it. The facts are Europe had just come out of 1000 years of murder, rape, theft and savagery with your dark ages and before that 5,000 years of oppressive authoritarian rule. The way of fear molded your world view and this is why you came here out of fear and killed murdered and raped peaceful people. Your crimes make Hitler look like a school yard bully. He only murdered 6 million people. You murdered 70 to 100 million. Of course your history book will not teach this broadly because what murder or thief is going to document his crime and advertise it broadly. Today you just murdered one million brown people in Iraq for oil. In the 1960’s you murdered 3 million brown people in South Eastern Asia and in the 1980’s your murdering hero Ronald Regan murdered thousand more brown Native Americans in Central America. And from fear you are looking to elect another fear based murder, McCain who, has vowed to stay in Iraq for 100 years stealing their oil and murdering millions more brown people, in your name and for your greed. And still you wave the flag like some peacefully noble people. It is fine to be a murder and thief but at least have the courage to admit it.
wanna bet: You miss the point. America is built on someone else land. Saying you love the land of America is like saying you love my wife. Well you can love her all you want but she is my wife. Likewise this is our land. Your land is Europe. I don’t understand why you people cannot be proud of your own home. Don’t be ashamed of who you are. You are Europeans. This is the land that you must love. Again trying to love my land is like trying to love my wife. P.S. I have no hopes for a better America. America and the era of fear is over. I only have hopes for a peaceful transition. But that’s in your hands. If you chose not to surrender, to repent. Mother earth will cleanse herself of this infestation of fleas, this virus that has infected the entire Earth. Hey, guys I am on your side. I am trying to tell you what will happen to you if you continue in this war against Mother Earth and therefore God. You are sealing your own fate.
wanna bet: Can’t you read. I said that US, Mexico, Canada and all current countries on Turtle Island are Euro regimes and the ALL including Mexico must get the f___ off of our land. So it is not a matter of the USA -vs Mexico vs Canada.
“My goodness, if that is the case, who will support all the freeloaders, then, when we all go away and take our roads with us?” You people talking about others as freeloaders, is like a drunk giving a lecture on not drinking. You are the greatest freeloaders in the history of the world: stealing other people’s land, stealing other people’s lives as slaves, other people’s resources, other people’s oil, gold. How delusional can one be. Either you people are insane or you are the biggest lairs the world has ever known.
Before you came to our land and produced a genocide and holocaust that have our people lost, we had a social system based upon abundance, freedom, love and liberty. When you are gone we can clean up the mess that you have created and re-birth our system of peace love and abundance.. Just be sure to take all of your stuff with you.
“Of course, INA is sitting at a desk using a high-speed internet connection to type this tripe.” If someone kills your culture and forces you to live in their culture, you learn their ways. In fact I know your systems and science better than you do. It is all part of the plan. If you are kidnapped you go with the program until things break loose. Well the break is coming.
“Whatever will he do when WE pack up and leave, taking that technology with us?” Have the biggest party the world has even known singing ding dong the witch is dead.
IndigenousNativeAmerican @ 7 Sep 2008 at 11:40 am:
This land is my land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for me
As I was walking a ribbon of highway
I saw above me an endless skyway
I saw below me a golden valley
This land was made for me
I’ve roamed and rambled and I’ve followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me a voice was sounding
This land was made for me
The sun comes shining as I was strolling
The wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling
The fog was lifting a voice come chanting
This land was made for me
As I was walkin’ - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin’
But on the other side …. it didn’t say nothin!
Now that side was made for me!
In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin’ and some are wonderin’
If this land’s still made for me.
©1956 (renewed 1984), 1958 (renewed 1986) and 1970 TRO-Ludlow Music, Inc. (BMI)
IndigenousNativeAmerican @ 7 Sep 2008 at 11:40 am:
Must be high on peyote again!
IndigenousNativeAmerican @ 7 Sep 2008 at 11:40 am:
Mother earth will cleanse herself of this infestation of fleas, this virus that has infected the entire Earth.
…..and we will take care of the insects and rodents
“Before you came to our land and produced a genocide and holocaust that have our people lost, we had a social system based upon abundance, freedom, love and liberty.”
Human sacrifice too, as I recall.
Sorry Greg
I misunderstood.
Anonymous: Be honest. Don’t lie in your song:
This land is stolen land, this land is stolen land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was stolen from people we murdered
As I was walking a ribbon of highway
I saw above me an endless skyway
I saw below me a golden valley
I and my people are a bunch of thieves
I’ve roamed and rambled and I’ve followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me a voice was sounding
Karma says that we all pay for the ill that we do.
The sun comes shining as I was strolling
The wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling
The fog was lifting a voice come chanting
I reawakened to the truth and had to repent for my sins
Was Arlo Guthrie really a Native American? I had no idea.
INA, when will you abandon your materialistic, white-man-invented, high-speed internet connection and start living off the land you are so entitled to?
No small irony there.
I’ll tell you when INA will go back to living off the land:
http://www.lyricsbox.com/5th-dimension-the-lyrics-age-of-aquarius-vv2dwrs.html
Pathetic to turn an otherwise charming fable - which is what the whole “Turtle Island” myth is - into tedious mau-mauing tripe.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/maumauing
http://teageegeepea.tripod.com/maumau.html
Colonial83 said on 7 Sep 2008 at 5:05 pm:
Was Arlo Guthrie really a Native American? I had no idea.
I’m a native American. I was born here.
The horror of the genocide in Canada’s Indian Residential Schools became public, as the locations of 28 mass graves of Indian children were revealed.
An unknown number of Indian children died in captivity at Indian Residential Schools in Canada.
The murders included children killed in electric chairs. Some of the bodies were incinerated in the school furnaces, while others were buried in mass graves.
Eyewitness Sylvester Greene described how he helped bury a young Inuit boy at the United Church’s Edmonton residential school in 1953.
“We were told never to tell anyone by Jim Ludford, the Principal, who got me and three other boys to bury him. But a lot more kids got buried all the time in that big grave next to the school.”
The location of mass graves of residential school children was revealed by the Independent Tribunal Established Squamish Nation Territory (”Vancouver, Canada”) on April 10.
At a public ceremony and press conference held outside the colonial “Indian Affairs” building in downtown Vancouver, the Friends and Relatives of the Disappeared (FRD) released a list of twenty eight mass graves across Canada holding the remains of untold numbers of aboriginal children who died in Indian Residential Schools.
The list was distributed to the world media and to United Nations agencies, as the first act of the newly-formed International Human Rights Tribunal into Genocide in Canada (IHRTGC), a non-governmental body established by indigenous elders.
In a statement read by FRD spokesperson Eagle Strong Voice, it was declared that the IHRTGC would commence its investigations on April 15, 2008, the fourth Annual Aboriginal Holocaust Memorial Day. This inquiry will involve international human rights observers from Guatemala and Cyprus, and will convene aboriginal courts of justice where those persons and institutions responsible for the death and suffering of residential school children will be tried and sentenced. (The complete Statement and List of Mass Graves is reproduced below).
Eagle Strong Voice and IHRTGC elders will present the Mass Graves List at the United Nations on April 19, and will ask United Nations agencies to protect and monitor the mass graves as part of a genuine inquiry and judicial prosecution of those responsible for this Canadian Genocide.
For more information: http://www.hiddenfromhistory.org/, or write to the IHRTGC at: genocidetribunal@yahoo.ca Issued on Squamish Territory, 10 April, 2008, under the authority of Hereditary Chief
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/brenda-norrell/2008/04/mass-graves-revealed-indian-children-canadian-schools
The Indies were discovered in the year one thousand four hundred and ninety-two. In the following year a great many Spaniards went there with the intention of settling the land. Thus, forty-nine years have passed since the first settlers penetrated the land, the first so claimed being the large and most happy isle called Hispaniola, which is six hundred leagues in circumference. Around it in all directions are many other islands, some very big, others very small, and all of them were, as we saw with our own eyes, densely populated with native peoples called Indians. This large island was perhaps the most densely populated place in the world. There must be close to two hundred leagues of land on this island, and the seacoast has been explored for more than ten thousand leagues, and each day more of it is being explored. And all the land so far discovered is a beehive of people; it is as though God had crowded into these lands the great majority of mankind.
And of all the infinite universe of humanity, these people are the most guileless, the most devoid of wickedness and duplicity, the most obedient and faithful to their native masters and to the Spanish Christians whom they serve. They are by nature the most humble, patient, and peaceable, holding no grudges, free from embroilments, neither excitable nor quarrelsome. These people are the most devoid of rancors, hatreds, or desire for vengeance of any people in the world. And because they are so weak and complaisant, they are less able to endure heavy labor and soon die of no matter what malady. The sons of nobles among us, brought up in the enjoyments of life’s refinements, are no more delicate than are these Indians, even those among them who are of the lowest rank of laborers. They are also poor people, for they not only possess little but have no desire to possess worldly goods. For this reason they are not arrogant, embittered, or greedy. Their repasts are such that the food of the holy fathers in the desert can scarcely be more parsimonious, scanty, and poor. As to their dress, they are generally naked, with only their pudenda covered somewhat. And when they cover their shoulders it is with a square cloth no more than two varas in size. They have no beds, but sleep on a kind of matting or else in a kind of suspended net called bamacas. They are very clean in their persons, with alert, intelligent minds, docile and open to doctrine, very apt to receive our holy Catholic faith, to be endowed with virtuous customs, and to behave in a godly fashion. And once they begin to hear the tidings of the Faith, they are so insistent on knowing more and on taking the sacraments of the Church and on observing the divine cult that, truly, the missionaries who are here need to be endowed by God with great patience in order to cope with such eagerness. Some of the secular Spaniards who have been here for many years say that the goodness of the Indians is undeniable and that if this gifted people could be brought to know the one true God they would be the most fortunate people in the world.
Yet into this sheepfold, into this land of meek outcasts there came some Spaniards who immediately behaved like ravening wild beasts, wolves, tigers, or lions that had been starved for many days. And Spaniards have behaved in no other way during tla! past forty years, down to the present time, for they are still acting like ravening beasts, killing, terrorizing, afflicting, torturing, and destroying the native peoples, doing all this with the strangest and most varied new methods of cruelty, never seen or heard of before, and to such a degree that this Island of Hispaniola once so populous (having a population that I estimated to be more than three million), has now a population of barely two hundred persons.
The island of Cuba is nearly as long as the distance between Valladolid and Rome; it is now almost completely depopulated. San Juan [Puerto Rico] and Jamaica are two of the largest, most productive and attractive islands; both are now deserted and devastated. On the northern side of Cuba and Hispaniola he the neighboring Lucayos comprising more than sixty islands including those called Gigantes, beside numerous other islands, some small some large. The least felicitous of them were more fertile and beautiful than the gardens of the King of Seville. They have the healthiest lands in the world, where lived more than five hundred thousand souls; they are now deserted, inhabited by not a single living creature. All the people were slain or died after being taken into captivity and brought to the Island of Hispaniola to be sold as slaves. When the Spaniards saw that some of these had escaped, they sent a ship to find them, and it voyaged for three years among the islands searching for those who had escaped being slaughtered , for a good Christian had helped them escape, taking pity on them and had won them over to Christ; of these there were eleven persons and these I saw.
Is there any way for readers to block these screeds?
Do people really think like that? I mean, seriously?
Returning to “ignore” mode.
INA - quit cutting and pasting. Ignore button ON.
Guys this is the real history. I know that the truth hurts and shatters your fear based world view of being sweet peaceful white people that never attack first but always defend but the truth is the truth.
Do you actually believe that crap or are you just having a little fun?
INA, you fantasy world revolves around the saccharine falsehood that non-whites are without fault… that before white men took their land and treated them badly, all was sunshine and smiles between the sweet peaceful “first peoples”. Like it or not, there were tribal divisions, differing and conflicting cultures, customs, languages, religions and tactics for maintaining tribal monoculture. Diversity was hardly regarded as a strenth or blessing.
How many tribes were attacked, raided, destroyed or forced to relocate by other tribes? How many took captives and practiced slave trading? Do you know which plains Indian tribe used female captives in religious sacrificial rituals? Which practiced cannibalism? Do some damned homework before you spout your version of “truth”. How many tribes were eradicated or subsumed by their fellow turtle island folk, lost to history long before whitey showed up to corrupt them?
Ever hear of the Honniasont Tribe? Their name meaning was “wearing something around the neck”. They lived in what is now western Pennsylvania and into neighboring parts of West Virginia and Ohio. Know who finished them off? The Susquehanna and Seneca Tribes. No quarter. Winner takes all. Why? who knows… maybe they were unwilling to share their prime fishing spots .. or perhaps they broke a promise, insulted someone’s wife or were too nice for their own good.
No love loss between the Crow and Sioux. The Chippewa were flanked by the Sioux and Iraquois … and you can bet they had plenty of border territory issues…. the Comanche and Apache? Blood rivals. War dance. War bonnet. War path. War club. War chiefs. War councils. War party. Need some horses? Some bragging rights to impress the homegirls and chief? Pillage the neighbors!
http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Indian:Massacres.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=acZ-c7qgp-YC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&ots=j_XX0xC5wh&dq=sioux+santee+1862+settlers+massacred&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html&sig=ACfU3U3yCM80tD34YFzfBk8YWgQl_LPRfg
http://www.amazon.com/Over-Earth-Come-Great-Uprising/dp/0312093608
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720014.ece
http://www.vdare.com/yeagley/indian_view.htm
http://www.vdare.com/yeagley/index.htm
Is this the best come back you guys have. Now admit it.
You are the real illegal aliens. Your hard approach towards indigenous Native Americans is just more forced relocations, murder, broken families, more apartheid of our continent for your greediness. At least admit the truth. Just repeat after me the real words to your national anthem:
“greed is good”,
“we’ll take whatever we need from any brown people”
“this is my land, this is my land no matter who I have to steal it from”
“I will twist the truth and re-write the laws to make the innocent people the criminals.”
“We are good because we know how to cover s___ with sugar and make it taste like candy.
“Ha, Ha we are smart people because we are the best con-artist in the world.”
Don’t be cowards. At least you can admit that you are the real illegal aliens.
“We’ll introduce alcohol to the New World so the ‘IndigenousNativeAmerican’ can get loaded and post on BVBL”
As I have said before, if you respond to INA, he will continue, but if you do not respond, he has nothing to respond to and will eventually run out of things to say. People, he is just trying to get all of you riled up and it is working!!
Ignore him and it will go away, just like before.
INA is quite interesting in that he brings to the table all the crackpot theories you could want and then some. I expect that if he continues on long enough we might get to the part about how the moon landings were faked and that the CIA invented crack, among other things.
Lunatic fringe
I know you’re out there
You’re in hiding
And you hold your meetings
We can hear you coming
We know what you’re after
We’re wise to you this time
Dolph….er Moon-howler, come out, come out wherever you are. We MISS you!
INA doesn’t get me riled up at al. I’m just amused at the image of some spoiled suburbanite with an SUV parked in his driveway tapping away on his laptop about white greed.
But, don’t you see? If that internal combustion engine have never been invented, if that microprocessor had never been invented, if the “evil white man” had never created this technology INA would be living in a mud hut somewhere communing with nature.
INA wants to live that life, as his ancestors did, however he is addicted to the drug of modern technology created by the “evil white man”.
And you, evil white man, are solely responsible for his addiction. You have overpowered his will with your technology, and he has no control over his desire for more and more consumer goods.
There is no 12-step program strong enough to save that poor soul from his delusions.
“Before you came to our land and produced a genocide and holocaust that have our people lost, we had a social system based upon abundance, freedom, love and liberty. When you are gone we can clean up the mess that you have created and re-birth our system of peace love and abundance.. Just be sure to take all of your stuff with you.”
I expect that so-called IndigenousNativeAmerican will claim that all archaeological and historical FACTS produced by evidence which disputes his claims were planted by Europeans, but I thought that I should point out the following anyway:
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/latinamerica/topics/human_scacrifice.html
“In Mesoamerica, the most obvious practice of human sacrifice was found in the Aztec Culture. Under the leadership of Montezuma and others before him, sacrifice became a key element in their ritual and worship to many gods. The Aztecs were constantly at “war” with neighboring tribes and groups. The goal of this constant warfare was to collect live prisoners for sacrifice. The Flowery Wars began with a mutual agreement between the Aztecs and the Tlaxcalans to capture live men for future sacrifice (Meyers & Sherman:65).”
So much for recreating their “social system based upon abundance, freedom, love and liberty” in this country…I do believe that’s what his people have been running away from for generations, which is why it doesn’t make any sense that they would want to remake it here. Twisted people such as INA are, I believe, very much a vocal minority among those for whom he claims to speak. I doubt that there are many Latin Americans who would want to find themselves spread-eagled on the top of a pyramid as someone is cutting out their hearts in the name of tradition (you can also view this as a symbolic sacrifice of those who are foolish enough to believe this tripe that they are being fed by people like INA).
# Anonymous said on 8 Sep 2008 at 4:30 pm:
“Dolph….er Moon-howler, come out, come out wherever you are. We MISS you!”
Don’t be ridiculous, Anonymous…Dolph posts under her one and only pseudonym wherever she may be commenting. Rather disingenuous to accuse someone of multiple pseudonyms when you can’t get any more multiple than posting as “Anonymous!”
“Yes, anyone will become violent when beaten, raped, abused murdered for decades.”
You mean, INA, like the hundreds of thousands of identified Latin American sex offenders have been doing here, in our country? Do you mean like the misogynistic culture that they, and apparently you, are trying to import here, to our country?:
http://scheney.wordpress.com/2008/08/23/the-city-of-lost-girls-femicide-in-latin-america/#more-315
Hey AWCheney I’ll address the flaws in your theory tomorrow. But I am going to get some rest so that I can kick some more butt tomorrow. Remember I said there was contact in parts of TI before 1492. Here is a clue for you to google: 500 years before Columbus a yellow haired man with long hair below his shoulders, blue eyes and pale skin is documented as having a major civilization changing impact on the Indian civilizations on parts of TI. It does not take much to infect and corrupt a civilization. Ever see the movie “The Gods Must be Crazy”.
Your people were also doing their human sacrificing long BEFORE 1492…or before the “legend.”
From the same link:
“(Meyer & Sherman:44) Human sacrifices were seen in many different cultures in Latin American, such as Olmecs, Mayan and the Moche.”
You might also check out this Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian
“Between 1800 and 300 BCE, complex cultures began to form in Mesoamerica. Some matured into advanced pre-Columbian Mesoamerican civilizations such as the: Olmec, Teotihuacan, Maya, Zapotec, Mixtec, Huastec, Purepecha, Toltec and Mexica (Aztecs), which flourished for nearly 4,000 years before first contact with Europeans.”
As you can see (although it’s fairly common knowledge…you seem to have a bit of trouble with that), these “civilizations” practicing human sacrifice mentioned before FAR preceded European contact, or even your “yellow haired man with long hair below his shoulders, blue eyes and pale skin” legend who “corrupted” those civilizations. Odds are, he wound up on one of those alters when he arrived. Perhaps they ate his heart and got food poisoning. That might have a bit of a negative impact on them if their priests died.
INA- I have seen first hand your “social system”. It includes multiple families living in single family homes, hanging out in public places on the premise of “looking
for work” even after noon, 1 o’clock, 3 o’clock..4…..
It means territory tags with gangs fighting for which fence they will spray paint and making neighborhoods that dealt with the usual neighborhood bully now afraid to let their
children play in the playground next door.
It means shady deals in local parking lots, secret “signs”
on houses (propped open storm doors were popular last summer and now it is the knotted curtian in the window since we caught on the to the storm doors) to let the
secret illegal hispanic population know that there is “room to rent”. That doesn’t mean a bedroom. It means room. That might mean a closet.
I’ve been in many houses lately that have been trashed by the “social system” of your precious illegals. They smell
of human waste because of the extra toilets scattered around here and there, with no plumbing attached. The garages and sheds are sectioned off into little rooms, some complete with a range for cooking. Every square inch of space is made into “living quarters” for one or more “live”
in.
You say your “peoples” stand for peace and abundunce,
Abundance of greed, filth, disregarding laws (loitering,
drinking in public, etc.) and taking advantage of our social services to a point where a citizen can’t even get help at this point because our skin isn’t brown and we speak perfect English. You have sucked us dry, my friend.
Our patience is gone. The likes of you will be also be gone in the near future, as you can go back to your home country which you so dearly love and bitch about us from there.
Dont’ forget to take your white-man computer.
A Mexican’s idea of a social program is the broken glass embedded in the wall surrounding his property.
Madmom:
You seem to have trouble reading. Yes, our people have many problems today now that they have been infected by your madness from Europe. There is no doubt about this. So would you if someone came into your home today, raped you child, killed your husband, beat you each day for the next twenty years while raping you, took your children and brainwashed them in a way keeping them as slaves. This is what you did and you cannot ignore it. The question is how did we live before the infections from Europe?
INA said: Why don’t you guys just admit it. You stole the land and you murdered tens of millions of people, and did something that has never been done before or after (you murdered 70 to 100 million people because you were greedy.)
No race of people has a history like yours. Admit it. Who else nearly killed themselves in a 1000 dark ages of insanity, rape and incest?
Who else inflicted a genocide and holocaust of an entire civilization, killing 25% of the worlds population, while stealing 25% of the world’s land and wealth and on top of this have the nerve with pride to pronouns that it is yours and the original owners had not better step one foot on your property.
The question is why are you so different from all other people on the planet? Think about it. What happened in Europe. Why is your skin white and your eyes blue? Yea, I have heard the theories but it does not add up. Many people lived in cold climates with less sunlight. Why are you more aggressive, more violent, more intrusive, more arrogant that than people of color. You see their are really only two races of people brown people and white people. Why are the white people so different. Why do you dominate everything everywhere?
Their reason for killing and destroying such an infinite number of souls is that the Christians have an ultimate aim, which is to acquire gold, and to swell themselves with riches in a very brief time and thus rise to a high estate disproportionate to their merits. It should be kept in mind that their insatiable greed and ambition, the greatest ever seen in the world, is the cause of their villainies. And also, those lands are so rich and felicitous, the native peoples so meek and patient, so easy to subject, that our Spaniards have no more consideration for them than beasts. And I say this from my own knowledge of the acts I witnessed. But I should not say “than beasts” for, thanks be to God, they have treated beasts with some respect; I should say instead like excrement on the public squares. And thus they have deprived the Indians of their lives and souls, for the millions I mentioned have died without the Faith and without the benefit of the sacraments. This is a wellknown and proven fact which even the tyrant Governors, themselves killers, know and admit. And never have the Indians in all the Indies committed any act against the Spanish Christians, until those Christians have first and many times committed countless cruel aggressions against them or against neighboring nations. For in the beginning the Indians regarded the Spaniards as angels from Heaven. Only after the Spaniards had used violence against them, killing, robbing, torturing, did the Indians ever rise up against them….
“The second being of the Fourth Prophet warned the light-skinned race might wear the face of death that would almost look the same as the face of brotherhood. “If they come carrying a weapon and if they seem to be suffering, beware. Behind this face is greed. You shall recognize the face of death if the rivers are poisoned and the fish are unfit to eat.”
Well hear we are the fish today are unfit to eat!!
“As for the vast mainland, which is ten times larger than all Spain, even including Aragon and Portugal, containing more land than the distance between Seville and Jerusalem, or more than two thousand leagues, we are sure that our Spaniards, with their cruel and abominable acts, have devastated the land and exterminated the rational people who fully inhabited it. We can estimate very surely and truthfully that in the forty years that have passed, with the infernal actions of the Christians, there have been unjustly slain more than twelve million men, women, and children. In truth, I believe without trying to deceive myself that the number of the slain is more like fifteen million.”
The mainland is the south east of the US.
The Fourth Prophet was two who came as one. The first told them to expect a race of people who had light skin. The future of the Anishinabeg would be known by the face the light-skinned people would wear. If they come in brotherhood there would be a time of wonderful change. New knowledge would be joined with the old knowledge and the two peoples would join to make a mighty nation. Two other nations would join to make four and they would become the mightiest nation of all. If they brought only their knowledge and their good-will they would be like brothers.
The second being of the Fourth Prophet warned the light-skinned race might wear the face of death that would almost look the same as the face of brotherhood. “If they come carrying a weapon and if they seem to be suffering, beware. Behind this face is greed. You shall recognize the face of death if the rivers are poisoned and the fish are unfit to eat.”
On the Island Hispaniola was where the Spaniards first landed, as I have said. Here those Christians perpetrated their first ravages and oppressions against the native peoples. This was the first land in the New World to be destroyed and depopulated by the Christians, and here they began their subjection of the women and children, taking them away from the Indians to use them and ill use them, eating the food they provided with their sweat and toil. The Spaniards did not content themselves with what the Indians gave them of their own free will, according to their ability, which was always too little to satisfy enormous appetites, for a Christian eats and consumes in one day an amount of food that would suffice to feed three houses inhabited by ten Indians for one month. And they committed other acts of force and violence and oppression which made the Indians realize that these men had not come from Heaven. And some of the Indians concealed their foods while others concealed their wives and children and still others fled to the mountains to avoid the terrible transactions of the Christians.
It’d be very nice of you to cite your sources instead of engaging in plagiarism.
“Why do you dominate everything everywhere?”
Charles Darwin had a theory about that.
IndigenousNativeAmerican said on 9 Sep 2008 at 10:37 am:
The Fourth Prophet was two who came as one.
Another FALSE PROPHET!
KOWA GOOPA!!! YOU HEAP BIG JEFE.
INA has been citing works from Bartolome de las Casas:
The Tale of Bartolome de las Casas
By Bob Corbett 19 June 1995
This is the strange tale of Bartolome de las Casas, a man whom I regard as one of the most interesting cases in human history. He was, as you shall see, a great humanitarian. Yet, this tragic man was importantly instrumental in one of the greatest evils of human history. de las Casas has always signified for me the incredible dangers of putting heart exclusively over head. It would seem to me that one needs good intentions and a good heart to have the courage and will to carry out those intentions. But, one almost must have KNOWLEDGE. Doing good is not only a matter of intention and will. It is also a matter of knowing what to do, and in the case of de las Casas, knowing what NOT to do.
Las Casas’ father sailed with Columbus in 1492 and Bartolome made the third voyage in 1498. He settled in Hispaniola in 1502, ready to seek his fortune in the New World. He was deeply moved toward a sympathy toward the Amerindians by a Dominican priest in 1509, and gave up his slaves. From 1509 until his death in 1566 he was the great champion of the Amerindians.
Las Casas did not campaign against slavery itself. His primary battle was to encourage, and demand, the practice of conversion and control of the Amerindians by peaceful means, not violence, war and cruelty. He had uncanny success in persuading the Kings of Spain, but their humanizing laws were constantly ignored in the colonies.
He was ordained a Roman Catholic priest in 1510, became a member of the Dominican order in 1522 and was consecrated the bishop of Chiapas, Cuba in 1543. He wrote extensively of the horrible conditions of the Amerindians under Spanish rule, constantly pleading for peaceful and humane relations with them.
Ironically, this great and sincere humanitarian, convinced that the fast disappearing Arawak Indians could not physically tolerate the hard labor expected by the Spanish, recommended the importation of African slaves to do the hard labor. de las Casas believed that the Africans were constitutionally more fit for hard labor than were the Amerindians. Thus he was importantly, though indirectly, responsible for the growth of one of humanities greatest horrors — black slavery in the New World.
INA Said: AWCheney you have to do better than that. Wetback Euros have been poking their noses into our land for thousands of years infecting our cultures.
“Unexpected test results showed that the remains were approximately 9,300 years old, rather than from the nineteenth century, as had originally been assumed.[5] After collecting all the bone pieces, Chatters concluded the subject was a Caucasoid male about 68 inches (173 cm) tall who died in his mid fiftie”
Anywhere your people have come in contact with our people on TI you have infected us with your disease. Then you stand back with arms folded and claim, hey look how crazy those brown, drunken savages are.
The authoritarian civilizations that you speak of on TI have their corrupt roots in Europe.
The proof of what I am saying lies with La Casas. He documents people untouched by the Euro infection:
“And of all the infinite universe of humanity, these people are the most guileless, the most devoid of wickedness and duplicity, the most obedient and faithful to their native masters and to the Spanish Christians whom they serve. They are by nature the most humble, patient, and peaceable, holding no grudges, free from embroilments, neither excitable nor quarrelsome. These people are the most devoid of rancors, hatreds, or desire for vengeance of any people in the world. The sons of nobles among us, brought up in the enjoyments of life’s refinements, are no more delicate than are these Indians. They are not arrogant, embittered, or greedy. Their repasts are such that the food of the holy fathers in the desert can scarcely be more parsimonious, scanty, and poor. As to their dress, they are generally naked, with only their pudenda covered somewhat. And when they cover their shoulders it is with a square cloth no more than two varas in size. They have no beds, but sleep on a kind of matting or else in a kind of suspended net called bamacas. They are very clean in their persons, with alert, intelligent minds, docile and open to doctrine, very apt to receive our holy Catholic faith, to be endowed with virtuous customs, and to behave in a godly fashion. And once they begin to hear the tidings of the Faith, they are so insistent on knowing more and on taking the sacraments of the Church and on observing the divine cult that, truly, the missionaries who are here need to be endowed by God with great patience in order to cope with such eagerness. Some of the secular Spaniards who have been here for many years say that the goodness of the Indians is undeniable and that if this gifted people could be brought to know the one true God they would be the most fortunate people in the world.”
Read and weep baby read and weep!!!!!!!!!!!!! What now, who are the savages.
Must be nice, having a trust fund and no need to work.
INA, now I see what a completely helpless victi m you really are.
White man bring blankets, smallpox….and DSL
Indig: Those natives you described sounds like dull simpletons. Not a whole lot on their minds. Probably they were drugged up on their indigenous drugs like coca or betel nut. But what about the human sacrifices? Maybe they were so simple-minded they volunteered, thinking they were going to get virgins.
Indig better calm down or he’s going to blow a gasket.
Who the F___ mentioned blankets. Monti are you mentally unable to understand. We lived a different world view. It was not a fear based world vie w like yours. To you living a natural live equates to drugs, dull, simpleton. The is why there will be a purification, because without one people like you are bored if you are not raping the planet to fill your fat belly.
“Those who return to the ways given to us in the original teachings, and live a natural way of life will not be touched by the coming of the Purifier. They will survive and build the new world.” Hopi Prophecy.
But whatever will you do, INA, when the white man leaves, taking away your computer? I hope you’ve started learning smoke signals. Stop being such a slave to white-man technology, INA, and maybe we can take you more seriously.
“Who the F___ mentioned blankets.”
We killed the Buffalo and imported cow.
“We lived a different world view”
Yes we do, what now? What would fix it in your eyes?
Being TRUTHFUL hurts, but damn, how FAR back do you go? Your arguments would WIPE out the WHOLE world as we know it. Think about it.
You are arguing creation, evolution and what was the beginning.
Smoking that peace pipe full of chemicals ( a cigarette)
Cheers ,even if The King of Beers was sold out due to GREED!
I notice, INA, that you really have nothing to dispute what I posted, except quotations from a EUROPEAN. You revisionist history is therefore contradictory and without foundation. What you want for your people is this:
http://scheney.wordpress.com/category/latin-america/
Hope you enjoy the new world that you want to create. Of course, you probably will…being a man, you won’t suffer as much as the women and children in your life. Maybe that’s what you want…HAPPY MACHISMO!
No, AWCheney, that’s not what he wants. He just craves attention, that’s all. He’s probably “European-American” himself.
There is nothing worst than people who take hard line positions and cannot defend them. But it shows the weakness of what they are saying. They know that the people they are deporting and killing and holding in their jails are in fact the owners of this land.
You conservative rightwing white racist are merely looking to continue stealing and killing and lying to feed your fat lard butts for another day.
How weak and sad and pathetic!!
Since you hate white people and the US, you are a bigger racist than anyone around. LEAVE!!! GO AWAY!!!
He won’t go away. He hates white people, but needs them.
Indigenouswhatever, aren’t YOU the one taking the “hard line” here?
I think they call this “attention-seeking behavior.” Time to stop feeding this beast and ignore him/her entirely.
What is it with mexicans who think they have a right to be here? Mexicans have NEVER had a right to be here! Had they crossed the Rio Grande 500 years ago, native americans would have killed them! They think they are native americans and they are NOT.