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The Debate

By Greg L | 26 September 2008 | National Politics | 75 Comments

McCain and Obama debated tonight.  I doubt anyone out there changed the way they felt about the candidates as a result of this little exercise.

It can be summed up with “let’s be vague.”



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75 Comments

  1. Naughtius Maximus said on 26 Sep 2008 at 11:09 pm:
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    Obama’s a nice bright guy, extremely good on his feet, who when he speaks long enough reveals himself to be very very liberal. McCain’s a great guy but as a politician a slick untrustworthy character who basically just talks fake crap.

    They’re both in collusion to bail out Wall Street while letting the profiteers who own America keep their money in their own pockets. The House GOP has the right idea on this bailout - use the tax code to encourage our wealthy to invest, don’t just stick average Americans with the bill.

    As usual, we really have no choice in either party, they’re colluding right now to keep Wall Street running on money borrowed for our children we naively try to “build a better life for”.

  2. BattleCat said on 26 Sep 2008 at 11:10 pm:
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    I thought what we needed up there was a conservative who make and defend his/her points well. McCain did OK, but I didn’t see as much clearly articulated position as I wanted to see or hear. I wish McCain could get some new material (I’m done with the DNA testing for Bears thing). Frankly, I’d like to see Huckabee and Obama. Every time I heard Huckabee, I was blown away (his amnesty stuff aside). I’d pay good money to see how Huckabee would have done against Obama….or even better, Ron Paul…that THAT man can make a point well.

  3. Slick said on 26 Sep 2008 at 11:33 pm:
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    For once you’re way off base here Greg. I thought Nobama held his own on the economic issues but once it came to foreign affairs McCain owned the chump. He crushed him on the Iraq and Afganistan issues and used words like “doesn’t understand”, “risky” and “dangerous”. For those out there still on the fence, these are powerful adjectives. On more than one occasion ole Barry was freaking out, and seemed less presidential overall. Clearly McCain helped himself tonight.

    For my brothers (and sisters) in arms out there intent on getting a pound of flesh from John for his amnesty stunt, please tell me how Nobama will be a better choice on that issue….you can’t cuz we both know he’d be an absolute nightmare; instant amnesty and 50 million new democrat voters. Don’t throw out the imperfect for the insane.

  4. Max Power said on 27 Sep 2008 at 12:31 am:
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    Slick-

    Obama will not be able to pass amnesty… politics wont allow it. McCain could get it done in 7-10 days if he was President. If you want to avoid 50 million illegals become Democrat voters… you can’t let McCain get in the White House.

  5. Slick said on 27 Sep 2008 at 12:57 am:
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    Hey max why don’t you go back to the daily koz where you are at home.

  6. Max Power said on 27 Sep 2008 at 1:05 am:
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    Im not voting for Obama… but there is no way in hell Im voting for Juan McAmnesty.

    You can try to categorize me as a Democrat, but its not true. I’m a citizen who is worried about our culture and security, both of which are harmed by the flood of illegals.

  7. USMCWife said on 27 Sep 2008 at 4:34 am:
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    Every debate has its telling moment. The elder Bush looking at his watch. Gore sighing.

    Tonight it was the “battle of the bracelets”.

    McCain was speaking of the bracelet he wears, and the totemic gifts parents give to him. Just recently on a campaign stop, he was given a set of dog tags memorialized a fallen Soldier by the family. When McCain was talking about this, he was genuine, and speaking from the heart and relaying the weight of the responsibility of remembering these men and women.

    Obama had to rudely interject –as he had throughout the night — with his own “bracelet” story.

    Except, he had to stall and fumble as he had to look down and READ the name of the soldier on his bracelet.

    As a “Blue Star” spouse, I felt my eyes well up with tears of outrage and anger. Right there, that moment crystallized the contempt Obama holds for our men and women in service to our nation. To him, our servicemembers are nothing more than props to be exploited when the cameras are rolling, and forgotten when the lights are turned off and the press have left.

    I know I didn’t miss it, and I am sure that millions of other military families across the nation didn’t either. This is not going to help him with the “bitter gun clingers” who can see right through him and his posturing.

    Obama owes the Jopek family an apology, but he has neither the character or courage to do so.

    In no way, shape or form does he deserve the honor of leading our men and women as Commander in Chief. He has not earned it, and does not understand it.

  8. DPortM said on 27 Sep 2008 at 6:21 am:
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    On the bailout - sorry for the long post - this is from Judicial Watch:

    The Truth Behind the Financial Crisis

    As I write this in Washington, DC, the city’s politicians deliberate just how far down the road to the perdition of socialism/communism/fascism they plan to take our country in response to the latest financial crisis. Want to know the true source of the financial meltdown in the home mortgage industry leading to the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and today’s attendant financial crisis? Follow the money trail back about nine years. Check out this article from the September 30, 1999 edition of the New York Times:

    In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

    The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets — including the New York metropolitan region — will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

    Fannie Mae, the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits. [Emphasis added.]

    The article goes on to predict that such a strategy might not cause problems during times of economic prosperity but that Fannie Mae could run into serious financial difficulty during an economic downturn.

    And here we are with the financial markets on the verge of collapse and the federal government debating the largest government bailout in the nation’s history.

    While the Clinton administration is certainly culpable for getting the ball rolling on these high-risk loans, there is plenty of blame to go around. Fannie Mae led by Clinton’s former budget director Franklin Raines and Obama campaign advisor Jim Johnson took Clinton’s risky gamble and then doubled down. The pair allegedly cooked the books at Fannie, issued countless dubious mortgages, and then took huge bonuses before leaving the company. Both men have also been accused of accepting special mortgage deals from Countrywide (a co-conspirator in this financial mess) as well.

    Johnson resigned from his official position with the Obama campaign because of the scandal, though he, like Raines, may still be advising him. (To be sure, these “companies” contributed generously to Republicans and kept many a Republican on the payroll and their boards. Some will point to Rick Davis, McCain’s campaign manager, as an example.)

    Politicians on Capitol Hill were no better. For example, Senate Banking Chairman Chris Dodd (D-CT), who was also nabbed in the Countrywide scandal, took more money in campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac than anyone else in the U.S. Senate. (Barack Obama, with only four years in the Senate under his belt, was close behind.) When reform proposals for Fannie and Freddie were put before Dodd, he called them “ill advised.”

    Despite their accounting problems and dire warnings of crisis, these “government sponsored enterprises” with the full support of liberals in Congress and their special-interest community organizing friends such as ACORN pushed for more subprime lending for their politically-correct constituencies. And calculating financial institutions (too many of which had corrupt relationships with these very same politicians) were happy to play along. Now the entire country is facing a financial disaster.

    Any lessons learned? Not in this town. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are raring to reinvigorate the ruinous business of subprime loans to those who can’t handle them. And the latest version of the bailout would take “profits” in the bailout scheme from the taxpayer and give them to government programs designed to push yet more risky mortgage loans and related programs controlled by liberal activist groups.

    Your Judicial Watch plans to investigate some of the corruption issues I’ve raised above. Both parties deserve scrutiny. (The FBI, a day late and a dollar short, is investigating, too.) Accountability will be our watchword. I’ll let you know what we find in future installments of the Update…

  9. freedom said on 27 Sep 2008 at 6:29 am:
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    Wait a minute Max….what are you talking about?? …with a Dem House and Dem Senate, Obama could do ANY THING he wanted, including amnesty…and he’d do it in a flash!!!

    A Dem Congress would fight a President McCain on EVERY issue. That, scenario, a Republican White House and Dem Congress is probably the BEST solution, the fed government would be inert.

  10. Emma said on 27 Sep 2008 at 6:50 am:
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    I agree that McCain was a standout when it came to foreign policy, and Obama floundered, stammered and basically wandered all over the place in his responses. Obama’s worst performance came when asked about how we would go about leaving Iraq–he went into a little tirade about how we shouldn’t have gone there in the first place. I loved it when McCain shot back something to the effect that the next President won’t have to decide whether to go in or not, just how to leave with victory and honor. Nobama was way out of his league then, and it showed.

  11. Naughtius Maximus said on 27 Sep 2008 at 8:11 am:
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    “For my brothers (and sisters) in arms out there intent on getting a pound of flesh from John for his amnesty stunt, please tell me how Nobama will be a better choice on that issue”

    He may punish employers who hire illegals … McCain won’t.

    And if he tries to pass Amnesty the light bulb goes on in every Republican’s head that it loses them elections … and we have a political bloodbath … he absolutely cannot do that.

  12. Emma said on 27 Sep 2008 at 8:18 am:
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    Nautius, if you let a liberal Democrat in for potentially the next eight years, forget about the Supreme Court reinterpreting the 14th amendment. Newly-appointed liberal judges will NEVER kill that incentive.

  13. Just Watching said on 27 Sep 2008 at 8:31 am:
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    McCain clearly had Obama on his heels, Obama continued to interrupt through the debate. McCain showed his presidential ability.
    Palin will go through Biden like Sherman through Georgia.

  14. Lake Ridge said on 27 Sep 2008 at 9:09 am:
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    Both candidates did what they needed to do, however, the polls surprisingly show today that those who watched overwhelmingly believe that Obama won the debate. Let’s face it, Americans are visual learners; McCain looked like a bumpy, frumpy, grumpy old man. He didn’t look at Obama once and made attempts to “lecture” Obama on foreign policy. I guarantee you that this turned off many undecideds (and this is what, as high as 10%?).

    On the other hand Obama certainly did come across as presidential and had a very high command of foreign policy; in that area he exceeded everyone’s expectations. I have to disagree with Emma’s assessment of Obama’s comment on leaving Iraq. Am I wrong that the question focused on what we could have done differently? And didn’t Obama address this? Looking at it from a neutral standpoint, wouldn’t Obama have been an idiot if he hadn’t mentioned that he didn’t vote for the war and McCain did?

    Focusing on what Obama did wrong…how many times can you agree with your opponent? Not a good idea. I know the spin McCain’s people will put on it, but I can also see that Obama could put a spin on it by his camp stating that an Obama White House is one that will give credit where credit is due, one of bipartisanship and one that will listen to the other side of the aisle. Lastly, I’m a bit stunned that Obama didn’t hammer McCain more on the economy. After stating just a week ago that the economy is “fundamentally sound” and after admitting earlier in the year that he “doesn’t know as much about the economy”, it would seem that Obama could have really focused on this. In the end, this was clearly a draw; neither threw a knockout punch and as Chris Rock said last night on Real Time, “the only way a black man can beat a white man in the ring, is with a knockout punch”.

  15. Emma said on 27 Sep 2008 at 9:44 am:
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    I wonder what the converse of that last statement is: The only way a white man can beat a black man in the ring , is with …..

    Why the race card, Lake Ridge? Obama was clearly not within his comfort zone last night, but he still managed to come out ahead in the post-debate polls.

  16. TedKennedysSwimInstructor said on 27 Sep 2008 at 10:15 am:
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    “The only way a white man can beat a black man in the ring , is to use everything he earned with merit to wipe out every fraud of “experience” stolen through affirmative action.”

  17. Hmmmm... said on 27 Sep 2008 at 11:58 am:
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    This was supposed to be McCain’s “sweet spot”–foreign policy. It’s the area we’ve been told over and over again is the place where Obama is weakest. So McCain should have hit this one out of the park. It’s the one debate where his nearly three decades in Washington should have had a chance to shine.

    Obama went into this debate with the same expectations Reagan had in his one debate with Carter in 1980. He simply had to demonstrate he could hold his own. Obama did that.

    So as one of the pundits put it last night (George Will, I think), in baseball the tie goes to the runner. In political debates, the tie goes to the one with the lowest expectations coming in. If we call this debate a draw, Obama comes out on top simply because his even performance demonstrates he can go head-to-head with someone who claims to have worlds of experience Obama lacks.

    Thursday should be interesting.

  18. Hard R said on 27 Sep 2008 at 12:22 pm:
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    Obama looked like Arnold Horshack (Welcome Back, Kotter) constantly raising his had to get the attention of the moderator… and when he got it … nothing but generalities.

    McCain clearly won… and he should have; it was a man debating a precocious, arrogant child.

  19. Billy Bob said on 27 Sep 2008 at 12:23 pm:
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    TKSI…..Thank you! You really nailed the truth. Speaking of affirmative
    action….we ain’t seen nothing yet. If Obama gets elected, (uh, I won’t
    even bother to go there…..it simply cannot happen!)

  20. slh said on 27 Sep 2008 at 12:29 pm:
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    McCain’s biggest point on Iraq is that our troops can’t leave Iraq other than in victory. McCain failed to define victory however. I don’t think that a vague reference to victory is a particulary convincing argument for staying in Iraq indefinitely at a cost of $80 billion and month and the maiming or death of so much of our youth. The crowd that McCain needed to win over last night was different than the one he addressed in St. Paul. He needed more than to appeal to the base of the republican party, he needed to convince the undecideds that he has more to offer than jingoistic slogans. He may have appealed to most of the base, but I think he failed to reach those he needed to last night.

  21. McCain Failin' said on 27 Sep 2008 at 12:31 pm:
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    McCain looked like he was going to keel over any minute. Half his face was drooping, one eye all red and weepy. And he kept flopping around like a fish out of water, twitching while Obama spoke, his eyes blinking around 100 times a minute. Nervous much? Also loved the way he never looked at Obama. Watching the McCain campaign go down in flames as he tries to first puss out on the debates, then knuckles under; as he chooses a complete bimbo as his running mate (”I can see Russia from my house so I know all about foreign policy!” Hey, that’s real good there Corky, I can see the moon from my house so I guess that makes me a goddamn astronaut.); as he loses any shred of honor he had claiming Obama wants to teach kids about sex before reading; watching Letterman shred him to bits for lying to him–it’s just been awesome.

    This country is sick of Republican hijinks. We’re sick of you forcing your religion, your pointless wars, your corporate welfare, your LIES down our throats. We’re tired of you using the Constitution as toilet paper. We’re tired of you acting like scared rabbits, throwing away our civil liberties in order to gain the illusion of a bit more security. The Republicans are going to be completely swept away into the dustbin of history after this election, consigned to obscurity with their failed policies where they belong. You guys had your chance, but now it’s time for you to sit down, shut up, and let the adults talk.

  22. DPortM said on 27 Sep 2008 at 12:37 pm:
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    Who’s been in the majority of both the House and the Senate for the last 2 years? What has been done? Absolutely nothing…

    What powers does a president really have other than going to war and veto power?

    Once must look at the lack of change in the past 2 years to understand why we can’t tolerate the liberal agenda of the Dems any longer.

    And no, I am not a Republican.

  23. McCain Failin' said on 27 Sep 2008 at 12:42 pm:
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    slh, of course he failed to define victory. That’s because you can’t “win” an occupation. Eventually, you just have to leave and turn things over to the locals and hope they improve. The lesson we’ve learned so far–painfully learned, written in the blood of our finest young men and women–is that a few purple fingers and a dead dictator don’t make up for the pain, misery, distrust, and hate generated when you try to forcefeed Western ideals of democracy, secular government, and egalitarianism on a bunch of primitives who are happy living in a theocracy; particularly when those ideals are forcefed at the point of a gun.

    Iraq’s a screwed-up mess. It was pointless to go in there (no WMDs, no connection to 9/11) and distract ourselves from Afghanistan. We’ve destabilized their society, killed tens of thousands, and have nothing to show for it but debt and dead kids. The best we can do is say, “Jeez, we sure screwed the pooch on that one!” Throw Dubya and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz under the bus and move on. This isn’t Japan fercryinoutloud. We don’t have to worry about “saving face.” Admit we made a mistake–started a war based on a lie and hosed things up–promise to fix what we can, but take the ding and move on. You can festoon a turd with all the ornaments you want–tinsel, glitter, lights–but it’s still a turd. It’s always going to be a turd. No amount of polishing will make it anything other than a turd. We “lost” in Iraq because we never should have gone in in the first place. Take your lumps and move on, I say.

  24. McCain Failin' said on 27 Sep 2008 at 12:47 pm:
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    DPortM, if I came over to stay over at your house, and I peed on the sofa, burned half the place down, stole the TV, put your dog in the microwave, spraypainted the walls, beat your spouse, and took a dump in your pool, and then a month later someone came over while you were still cleaning up from my visit, and said, “Dude, it’s been a whole month, your lawn looks like crap, why can’t you mow it and clean it up,” then would you understand?

  25. Marie said on 27 Sep 2008 at 1:08 pm:
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    FORGIVE ME. THIS IS TOTALLY OFF THE SUBJECT OF “THE GREAT DEBATE” BUT I FEEL COMPELLED TO POST THIS.

    I am sorry that many of you could make the Study Circle on Immigration at Geo Mason Univ today. I hope that some of you will be participating.

    I feel at last there is a platform to begin to heal and bring our community together. As I have said in the past for me the whole issue about illegal immigration is about dignity and respect to which everyone is entitled. It concerns me that my community has been torn apart by the “illegal immigration” issue and I take responsibility for my part. Sometimes the parties involved have not been kind or very respectful of one another. The arguing and name calling from both sides has not been productive nor has it helped any of us come together to work towards a solution. Everyone has their own opinion but opinions are like noses everyone has one. Opinions do nothing to create change.

    I really want to take this opportunity to thank Chris for her efforts and willingness to work with others of different views to bring healing to our community. I know she invited many to participate. Please, please, please think seriously about participating to bring some intelligent dialog to the table without the name calling and fighting and let us work together to solve the problems within our communities.

  26. w e stewart said on 27 Sep 2008 at 1:15 pm:
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    you said, After stating just a week ago that the economy is “fundamentally sound” and after admitting earlier in the year that he “doesn’t know as much about the economy”.
    The economy is fundamentally sound as far as industry and small business goes.
    When a small business tries to do what “Wall Street” does, and did, that’s what got them into the mess we are seeing now. Small business owners would end up in jail, out of business or running from creditors. With the FBI or Treasurey hunting them down. The congress is at fault, the Clinton administrations appointment of Andrew como to over see HUD was a very political move to ensure the vote of minorities. Como was detailed to ramrod a provision that would remove the requirement of background checks for employment, verification of earnings, hell, they were even told ” don’t call the employer, just grant the loan!” Ck the regs, see for yourself.
    It was not unheard of in the banking indusrty to quote process/loan fees off the top of their heads to customers requesting a loan. Banks are not your friends, they are in business to make money and if you agree to these so-called loan origination/process fees, so be it. They asked, and you agreed to pay. Bonus time just like in Wall Street.
    Bam Bam was really on the money re the last question of the debate where he rambled about how children should like us and if that happened, everything would be cool for us.
    Stewart
    Lets hope the American public wins the debate, determined by the players.

  27. slh said on 27 Sep 2008 at 1:58 pm:
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    TKSI and Billy Bob. Talk about affirmative action — McCain probably would not have made it into the naval academy (a poor high school record), would not have made it through the naval academy (bad grades), and certainly would not have gotten into aviation following his poor showing at the naval academy without the influence of his admiral dad and admiral grandpa. This is the type of affirmative action that the wealthy and powerful have relied on for their kids for generations. Maybe McCain would have performed better at the debate had he relied on studying during his academic career instead of his family connections.

  28. Ducky said on 27 Sep 2008 at 2:26 pm:
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    McCain Failin’ wrote:
    The lesson we’ve learned so far–painfully learned, written in the blood of our finest young men and women–is that a few purple fingers and a dead dictator don’t make up for the pain, misery, distrust, and hate generated when you try to forcefeed Western ideals of democracy, secular government, and egalitarianism on a bunch of primitives who are happy living in a theocracy; particularly when those ideals are forcefed at the point of a gun.

    So that’s why you believe our troops are doing - forcing themselves at gunpoint upon “primitives”, is that it? I’ll have you know, sir, that our troops are fighting valiantly and courageously to defend the Iraqi people from terrorists, murderers and fascists who seek to impose their will upon all of us. Oftentimes our troops fight alongside Iraqis.

    How dare you talk about our troops that way, sir. You are not deserving of their sacrifice and honor. But you have no honor - may you rot in hell.

  29. Ducky said on 27 Sep 2008 at 2:29 pm:
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    And to USMC Wife, may God bless you and your husband who have sacrificed so much for our country. I agree, Obama’s fumbling of the bracelet was a disgrace to the men and women of the Armed Forces. Obama is not fit to be Commander in Chief.

  30. TedKennedysSwimInstructor said on 27 Sep 2008 at 3:19 pm:
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    I’d much rather have McCain in a fox hole with me than some gutless affirmative action empty suit like Obama that couldn’t even load a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun.

  31. Hmmmm... said on 27 Sep 2008 at 3:33 pm:
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    Given that McCain can’t lift his arms above shoulder level and is, well, old, I’m not sure that’s who I want in the fox hole with me.

  32. Billy Bob said on 27 Sep 2008 at 3:45 pm:
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    slh, it’s painfully obvious that you know little or nothing about
    affirmative action. Ever been a victim of affirmative action?

    Marie who posted earlier, let me tell you something. The only way
    our community is going to be “healed” is for the illegals to get the hell
    out and stay out. They need to take their anchors with them, too.

  33. Tariq Nelson said on 27 Sep 2008 at 4:12 pm:
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    I think that Obama performed very well and held his own against McCain in his “strong subject”. He went right after him on Iraq on how he said it would be a cake walk and it would be easy. McCain was wrong. Turned it directly against him

  34. Lake Ridge said on 27 Sep 2008 at 4:32 pm:
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    Wow Emma you’re really serious aren’t you? That was a joke by Chris Rock I was passing on, and he also totally told the joke in jest. Isn’t Obama 52% Caucasian anyhow?

    And to McCain Failin’…You tell ‘em brother! We’re working hard here at Team Obama and internal polling shows Virginia’s going to come through for us.

    You guys really should have nominated the best Republican you had for the job; not some tired old man, well past his prime. And to you old, tired white men trolling this blog, your time has come and gone. There is a massive coalition of women, minorities and 18-40 Caucasians who are ready to take our country back. One man won’t change the world but it’s a start. And I’m so thrilled that my 9 and 12 year old are so inspired by Obama that they are also giving their time to the campaign.

  35. concrete4 said on 27 Sep 2008 at 4:56 pm:
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    McCain Failin’ said on 27 Sep 2008 at 12:31 pm:
    My, my - this sounds like goat-turd.

    Marie said on 27 Sep 2008 at 1:08 pm:
    And seriously, Marie - do you really think anyone wants to come and sit in a circle with some of the foulest women to ever walk the earth? Come on, now.

  36. USMCWife said on 27 Sep 2008 at 5:39 pm:
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    Lake Ridge,
    You greatly underestimate the PUMAs, and those who are working to expose Obama for the misogynistic jackbooted thug he is.

    I don’t think Virginians much like his free-speech suppression tactics. He may control the MSM, but he can’t control the small, independent newspapers or blogs or even e-mails individuals choose to send to one another. I’m sure that’s coming if the “One” is coronated.

    Not everyone has hopped onto the Obama Love-Train:

    http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2008/092008/09272008/413770

    When the Governor of a State feels compelled to issue an official press release denouncing your tactics, you are in a downward spiral:

    http://governor.mo.gov/cgi-bin/coranto/viewnews.cgi?id=EkkkVFulkpOzXqGMaj&style=Default+News+Style&tmpl=newsitem

  37. USMCWife said on 27 Sep 2008 at 5:44 pm:
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    Marie,
    Give it up. Your coven lost all pretense at impartiality a long time ago.
    You flushed your credibility at about the same time 9500 Liberty was forced to shut down their blog, because the leftists couldn’t control themselves and engage in meaningful debate without resorting to ad hominem attacks.
    Go scuttle back to anti- and clean up your own house first .

  38. TedKennedysSwimInstructor said on 27 Sep 2008 at 5:46 pm:
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    Re: “And I’m so thrilled that my 9 and 12 year old are so inspired by Obama that they are also giving their time to the campaign.”

    I surmise your kids go to public schools where most rank and file teachers are also supporting Nobama?

    Education or indoctrination?

  39. Marie said on 27 Sep 2008 at 5:58 pm:
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    USMCWife, concrete4, Billy Bob,

    It is really unfortunate that you all feel the Study Circle on Immigration is a group of leftists who can not engage in a meaningful debate. Actually, there was a wide range people present today, many having differing views. I guess you would prefer to bitch and moan rather than do something meaningful in your community to make it a better place. Having lived here for more than 44 years, I am very sad to see that we are so divided and hateful to one another. If you choose not to take a higher road then so be it. What changes will you make by just complaining and bitching on this blog?

    The olive branch was extended to you by more than one person. Sorry, you chose not to accept it.

  40. Naughtius Maximus said on 27 Sep 2008 at 6:02 pm:
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    Emma, good point on the activist judges.

    John Boehner for Presdient. The House Republicans are the only ones who didn’t jump to rush in and bail out Wall Street without even taking a good squint at what we’re doing. Bush did his Chicken Little routine again and the Dems and Senate Republicans fell right in line like the tools they are.

  41. Naughtius Maximus said on 27 Sep 2008 at 6:07 pm:
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    And by the way McCain looked like an abject fool to me prattling on about government waste a few millions at a time when he hasn’t said a word about the concept of this $700 billion dollar red-tag sale buyout and even suspended his campaign to try to help ram it through.

    Here’s McCain. Here’s as far as I can spit. Don’t trust him that far.

  42. concrete4 said on 27 Sep 2008 at 6:14 pm:
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    Marie - If you choose not to take a higher road then so be it. What changes will you make by just complaining and bitching on this blog?

    No, we actually get out and DO things. Your blog, your circle, your bitch sessions. Talk is cheap. Tell all your girlfriends that it’s time to get off their butts, shut their mouths, and DO SOMETHING. I don’t know, clean graffiti, maybe. And you all hate HSM so much, but I saw them out there today doing just that.

  43. Lake Ridge said on 27 Sep 2008 at 6:32 pm:
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    Ted Kennedy - Not only do my kids go to and excel in two of the best public schools in Virginia and the country, but I teach at a PWCS school. And guess what; my profession has nothing to do with why I’m a bleeding heart liberal. Let’s face it, aren’t most of us products of our upbringing? We were all raised to see the purposes of government in different manners. I was raised to view government as not the source of all problems, but in many cases the solution to many of our problems. I think sometimes we all need to take a step back and realize where our views originate from. In the end, I hope to hell I can continue to educate my children and allow them to follow their own beliefs, but don’t we all agree that a little bit of indoctrination, though maybe unintended, is inevitable?

    Frustratingly, way too many of my colleagues are McCain supporters; why they would support someone so much against public education, I’ll never know. I think readers here shouldn’t jump to conclusions with VA teachers; a very high percentage have no affiliation or participation with the NEA or AFT whatsoever. You would need to look at a state which allows collective bargaining, such as Pennsylvania, to see a high percentage of teachers in the unions. Still, it is true, most of our Obama supporters; much of this is because we are around children so much and see how much government programs have helped and are helping kids.

  44. Indigenous_Elvis said on 27 Sep 2008 at 6:37 pm:
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    interesting they talk about “healing the community” but i guess that only happens if it’s done “their way”.

    but it’s painfully obvious while they are doing study circles, economy parties and pulling security camera footage there are people out there doing something. people cleaning up the streets, people putting time into zone board issues and people doing all kinds of things that are useful. Talk is cheap, either shut up or put up.

    In the several months I’ve been watching that board I’ve not seen ONE useful thing they have done to really help the community at large, nothing, nada….

    everything they do affects only one small sub-set of our population and sadly it’s the illegal alien element. They call their little parties “economy parties” however it’s odd they are only at Hispanic restaurants (guess they are the only ones having problems, not)

    it’s obvious how they’ve backed themselves into their own little reality and chosen to take a loosing side. I would rather be on the side of the righteous than the side of the criminal, but that’s just me.

    when I see them out there getting their hands dirty and doing something legitimate then I’ll shut my mouth but I doubt that will occur.

  45. Emma said on 27 Sep 2008 at 7:01 pm:
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    Bravo, Billy Bob!

    Billy Bob said on 27 Sep 2008 at 3:45 pm:
    Marie who posted earlier, let me tell you something. The only way
    our community is going to be “healed” is for the illegals to get the hell
    out and stay out. They need to take their anchors with them, too.

    Or I guess we could sit around and make nice, talk endlessly about this “difficult social issue,” and do everything possible to ensure that we can continue to pay our housekeepers, gardeners and day laborers under the table.

  46. Benton said on 27 Sep 2008 at 7:06 pm:
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    Well, study circles do require thought…… Blogs don’t.

  47. Benton said on 27 Sep 2008 at 7:11 pm:
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    “Or I guess we could sit around and make nice, talk endlessly about this “difficult social issue,” and do everything possible to ensure that we can continue to pay our housekeepers, gardeners and day laborers under the table.”

    Tip of the iceberg, dear. Just the tip. Let’s move on to businessess that are dependent on them. When they start hauling off CEO’s it will be remarkable. Don’t know who I am going to vote for yet, but, I won’t rely on the Republicans to go after the CEO’s.

  48. CONVA said on 27 Sep 2008 at 7:13 pm:
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    “McCain never looked at Hussein”??? Why in the hell would he want to. We should all ignore the affirmative action poster child.

  49. USMCWife said on 27 Sep 2008 at 7:44 pm:
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    Marie,
    I have been “doing” something. I’ve been doing “something” pre-9/11. I am an activist, and an effective one. The problem is, you don’t like the results of my activism.

    YOU are the ones who can’t do anything proactive. I have brought this up before. Why not approach churches here about partnering to support returning migrants with churches in the home countries, to advocate for positive social change in their home countries? Why do you not spend your energies pressuring the sending countries to reduce the corruption? I posed a question to you months ago about your position on the rampant corruption and theft of funds from the federal Mexican education budget — public education is enshrined in their constitution — and you said NOTHING. I asked you about making employers accountable to verify the legal status of their employees, and to ensure that everyone is treated with dignity and respect. You said nothing. I asked you what you are doing to solve the ROOT problems of migration in the HOME countries, and you are SILENT. These are all things I am advocating for and “doing something” about.

    YOU are for the status quo. You don’t want change, you have no solutions.
    I am sick of your grievance mongering and race baiting.

  50. USMCWife said on 27 Sep 2008 at 7:50 pm:
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    Lake Ridge,
    Please explain to me how you can defend the actions of someone who had a golden opportunity and almost limitless budget to effect “real” change in Chicago’s public schools? The Annenberg Challenge was by all accounts a disaster and a money pit. Instead of reforming education, it was used as an indoctrination vehicle.

    Obama has had many opportunities at the grassroots level to make a positive impact in his constituent’s lives. He has taken a pass each time. Maybe if he had had a sincere track record of working for small scale change, and had some demonstrable results, I would listen to him.

    But he hasn’t. He has worse than NO track record, he has a track record of militancy, race baiting, class warfare and old school ward politics thuggery. He had no vision and inspired NO ONE.

    I don’t want him or his “values” anywhere near a school system my children might actually have to use.

  51. Emma said on 27 Sep 2008 at 7:53 pm:
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    Bravo as well to the HSM members who spent their free time today cleaning graffiti while the Order of the Jelly Doughnut sat around trashing PWC and kibitzing about how to make illegal aliens feel more welcome.

    Actions do speak louder than words, Marie.

  52. Internet saavy said on 27 Sep 2008 at 8:10 pm:
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    “There is a massive coalition of women, minorities and 18-40 Caucasians who are ready to take our country back.”

    The only person I know over the age of 30 who would vote for Obama sits around playing World of Warcraft all day.

  53. TedKennedysSwimInstructor said on 27 Sep 2008 at 8:13 pm:
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    Study Circles are nothing more than a prop to push the leftist anti-American agenda under the guise of “we offered a comforting forum to get all points of view” and the end result is that the leftist radical agenda is always touted as “mainstream”.

    This is a scam that leftists use all the time.

    Because the leftist agenda is not based on facts, they instead use charades like this, generally held at leftist institutions, to dupe the general public into thinking they’ve gathered the “pulse of the community” on whatever radical issue they’re pushing.

    Leftists use this tactic to give “credence” to their issues.

    In lieu of a Study Circle, why don’t all the “females” of Ewina’s pro-illegal alien sisterhood rent a bounce-bounce, dress Eric Byler in a suit pretending he’s John Stirrup, bound his legs together and his hands behind his back, throw him in the bounce-bounce and then enter it and then pounce on him in unison while filming Byler’s newest video, “Orgasms For Illegals”

  54. Wineplz said on 27 Sep 2008 at 8:35 pm:
    Flag comment

    Well said, USMCWife. Thanks for all the things you have done and continue to work for.

    Lake Ridge, VA is a Right to Work state, simply meaning that you have the right to work, to do your job, without paying your hard-earned money to some third-party to “represent” your interests to your employer. States that don’t protect the rights of workers to *decide* if they want to pay to join a union when they accept a job, are infringing on those workers’ civil liberties.

  55. Lake Ridge said on 27 Sep 2008 at 9:57 pm:
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    Wineplz - You are correct, and I didn’t say anything to the contrary, although your post seems to be correcting something I didn’t say.

    In Pennsylvania they call it “Fair Share”; I’m certainly glad it’s a choice in VA. But let’s not overestimate the power of the teachers’ unions in VA. Because it’s a Right to Work state, their power is very limited.

  56. Naughtius Maximus said on 27 Sep 2008 at 10:00 pm:
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    “We should all ignore the affirmative action poster child.”

    What the F are you talking about? Black person = affirmative action to you?

  57. Indigenous_Elvis said on 28 Sep 2008 at 12:30 am:
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    ted,

    keep em’ coming, your getting better each time! this is material so worthy of saturday night live.

  58. Marie said on 28 Sep 2008 at 8:45 am:
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    None of you have any clue about what I have done to better my community. Just because I do not blow my own horn does not mean I sit idly by and do nothing.

    You are wrong about the study circles. Many from the far right were there and willing to participate.

  59. DPortM said on 28 Sep 2008 at 8:57 am:
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    McCain Failin’ - I don’t understand what point you are trying to make. Are you talking about the war?

    I was discussing the fact that the Democrat-controlled Congress has done nothing in the last 2 years.

  60. Just Watching said on 28 Sep 2008 at 9:59 am:
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    All you persons with kids that are getting great educations at present will be aghast when you find out in about 10 or so years if the dems succeed today, the military will be failing in the ensuing years, and then an occasion will come up for war unlike we have seen and you will be waving bye to them headed off to war. All the result of the dems, Obama, this election and the new military draft many have so easily forgotten possible.

    McCain will not let the military falter.

    So are you worried about the appearance of battle scars or how high he can raise his arms now?

    Persons that evaluate on appearance should review Obamas face when he was put in his place though about 2/3 of the entire debate.

  61. TedKennedysSwimInstructor said on 28 Sep 2008 at 10:08 am:
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    From: “delegatebobmarshall@hotmail.com”

    The Democrat Wall Street Bailout bill sets aside tax money for community activist groups including ACORN which is registering voters for Barack Obama according to a Wall Street Journal editorial (see below).

    Contact your Virginia Congressman and Senators.

    The Senate vote on the democrat Wall Street Bailout bill may occur as early as 6 PM Sunday, September 28. The House vote will follow later Sunday evening or Monday.

    The Cleveland Plain Dealer (August 27, 2008) reports that the Cuyahoga County Election Board accused ACORN of submitting fraudulent voter registration cards.

    “Board employees said ACORN workers often handed in the same name on a number of voter registration cards, but showing that person living at different addresses. Other times, cards had the same name listed, but a different date of birth. Still another sign of possible fraud showed a number of people living at an address that turned out to be a restaurant.”

    Delegate Bob Marshall

    Wall Street Journal September 27, 2008 - Excerpts

    Taxpayers are naturally suspicious that political insiders and contributors on Wall Street are going to make out like bandits once Washington starts spending the $700 billion in the financial market rescue. But Democrats have already decided to spin off potentially billions of taxpayer dollars from the bailout fund to their own political buddies — not on Wall Street but on nearby K Street. …

    What we have here essentially are a pair of government slush funds created in July as part of the Economic Recovery Act that pump tax dollars into the coffers of low-income housing advocacy groups, such as Acorn.

    Acorn, one of America’s most militant left-wing “community activist groups,” is spending $16 million this year to register Democrats to vote in November. In the past several years, Acorn’s voter registration programs have come under investigation in Ohio, Colorado, Michigan, Missouri and Washington, while several of their employees have been convicted of voter fraud.”

    Along with other potential recipients of these funds, including the National Council of La Raza and the Urban League, Acorn has promoted laws like the Community Reinvestment Act, which laid the foundation for the house of cards built out of subprime loans. Thus, we’d be funneling more cash to the groups that helped create the lending mess in the first place. …

    This isn’t the first time this year that Democrats have tried to route money for fixing the housing crisis into the bank accounts of these community activist groups. The housing bill passed by Congress in July also included a tax on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to raise an estimated $600 million annually in grants for these lobbying groups. When Fannie and Freddie went under, the Democrats had to find a new way to fill the pipeline flowing tax dollars into the groups’ coffers.

    The idea that special-interest groups on the left or right should get a royalty payment for monies that are repaid to the Treasury is a violation of the public trust. We’re told the White House and House Republicans are insisting that the Acorn fund be purged from the bailout bill.

  62. Emma said on 28 Sep 2008 at 10:42 am:
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    And you don’t have any clue about what many here have done to better their community, oh preachy Marie. Did you give kudos to HSM over on the anti site for the graffiti cleanup yesterday? I’m pretty sure you did not. That wouldn’t fit in with the poison you all enjoy frolicking in over there.

  63. Bridget said on 28 Sep 2008 at 3:43 pm:
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    Just Watching …. Why wait ten years …

    Obama will call for military draft. He wants ‘em all. Wimin, minorities and, fur shure, all those inspired 18-40 Caucasians - Go Team Obama, Go - By the time your feckless circle of jerks gets a clue, it will be too late:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2092472/posts

  64. Billy Bob said on 28 Sep 2008 at 4:12 pm:
    Flag comment

    Emma, if Marie and her jolly band of illegal lovers wanted to do something
    really constructive, they could always go down Lomond Dr and clean
    up the trash along the curbs in front of the flop houses. After they finish
    there, they could then mow the overgrown lawns which have been left
    by the illegals. If this happens, I just might be impressed. Not enough to
    join in their little “study groups”. Like I said before, the only way we are
    going to “heal” is for the illegals to get the hell out of our country….and
    stay out!

  65. Indigenous_Elvis said on 28 Sep 2008 at 4:41 pm:
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    marie is whining like a little baby on the other side about how she got owned over here. Of course Juturna (zoe vitter) and KG came to her rescue. The study circles are stupid, I’ve come to realize that they really serve no purpose, people dont want study circles they want illegals gone, it’s really that simple. That is the clear majority, those leftist hags that participate in the study circles are the minority and they are bitter.

    if people want to know why the community is “polarized” then ask the illegals, if you can speak spanish I’m sure they’ll say:

    1. they dont care

    2. they hate america

    3. all they want to do is leach

    4. they dont care (again)

    illegals dont give a damn about anything except not being hassled for being illegal and working for non-taxable wages, molesting little kids, causing violent crime, driving without licenses, causing car accidents, etc… They want the american dream for free based on the sacrifices that our forefathers paid for that freedom. They deserve nothing, not even the nasty gum off the bottom of my shoe. Forget the study circles, report and deport is my motto. I’ll report every damn one I suspect to the authorities.

  66. Emma said on 28 Sep 2008 at 5:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    I was just at Wal-Mart on Liberia. A woman had a table set up with nothing more than a hand-scrawled “Registrare para votar” sign and some forms, and she was instructing a Latino gentleman to “just write Culpeper” on the form. When I asked her if she was representing League of Women Voters, she stammered and stalled a bit, then said, “Um, the Obama campaign sent me.” OK, so why the big secret? I thought it was a little weird. Are political partisans not supposed to disclose their affiliation to registrants?

  67. Emma said on 28 Sep 2008 at 6:14 pm:
    Flag comment

    And I might have been a little more receptive to Marie if she didn’t come across as Sweet Polly Purebread just trying to save our immortal souls, knowing she’ll go back there and incite her pals to trash us anyway.

  68. Indigenous_Elvis said on 28 Sep 2008 at 6:39 pm:
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    Emma,

    agreed! I can save my own soul thanks :) however I’m thinking of throwing an “economy bash” of my own, support the local prince william county economy. everyone will be invited, wonder if I can find a business or something that would sponsor such a thing? maybe we could even get ted to do some stand-up comedy or something? might even arrange a pinata or two (wonder of ricardo juarez or nancy lyall could help on that end?)

    could be the bash of the century! I think HSM had a couple nights-out back in the day from reading this board…might be a good time to re-new that function and get things moving again.

  69. Marie said on 28 Sep 2008 at 8:38 pm:
    Flag comment

    Emma,
    I have never encited anyone to trash you or anyone else. I do not think I have ever said one cruel thing about you.

    I would like to take this opportunity to ask you to come out from behind the cover of BVBL and make you views known in an open face to face format.

    End of conversation. I have nothing else to say to you or anyone else about this subject. The decision is up to you.

  70. Emma said on 28 Sep 2008 at 8:39 pm:
    Flag comment

    I’m still trying to recover from Ted’s “breastmilk powered Prius” comment, elvis —laughing as I type this :)

    The guy has a way with words.

  71. Emma said on 28 Sep 2008 at 8:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    Marie, I made my views known over at anti. I tried, got attacked, tried again, thougth I had found some common ground at times. Saw the religiously offensive cartoons and the extent to which you all will go to defame your fellow citizens, and I realized what witches you all really are. I’m not fooled by your sweet sheep’s clothing, Marie. You don’t want “common ground,” you want recruits for the sick, obsessive vendetta that Elena, Alanna et al are carrying out.

    As you say, end of conversation. I have nothing else to say to you.

  72. Wolverine said on 28 Sep 2008 at 11:34 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ladies and gentlemen of the blogger world, I have a profound confession to make concerning an egregious error committed by me. As a neophyte blogger, I was intrigued by your references to something called “the anti site” and the sudden spikes of anger amongst many of you concerning people with handles such as “Moon Howler” and the like. So, like a true neophyte, I wandered over to that site to see what all the fuss was about. Whoeeeeee!!! Such anger! Such rage! Such a propensity to advocate figuratively the burning of heretics at the stake! And their war cry seems to be: “Alas, I’ve been banned from the Black Site!” Well, goodness sakes, I wonder why?

    I found that one guy over there actually styles himself as “NotGregL…” After reading through various and sundry opinions by this chap, methinks that the real GregL should get down on his knees and thank his Maker for that blessing! I did think for a minute of throwing my own thoughts into that fray over there. As I started to type, however, my internet connection dropped out. Miracle from above, perhaps?

    One thing this neophyte would ask of all of you. Please calm down a bit when responding to posts from that site. From what I can see, they thrive over there on insults and they self-commiserate ad nauseum. Don’t hand the ammunition to them. Starve ‘em!! They will begin wandering in the wilderness.

    Uh, will this mean I’ll be “banned” from that other site? Maybe I should be, since I’m not practicing here what I’m preaching. But, then, I should be allowed one shot before I vow to make nice from now on. Chalk that first one up to war zone shock. Reminded me a little bit of my first day in South Vietnam.

  73. freedom said on 29 Sep 2008 at 7:00 am:
    Flag comment

    Well, if kgotthard and MoonHowler were to leave the anti site, there wouldn’t be anything left..:) :)

  74. freedom said on 29 Sep 2008 at 7:12 am:
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    Marie said on 28 Sep 2008, “You are wrong about the study circles. Many from the far right were there and willing to participate.”

    Name ‘em Marie….name ‘em. I’m sure that with the wholesome agenda of the “study circles, they would LOVE the public attention.

  75. Emma said on 29 Sep 2008 at 7:25 am:
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    Wolverine, I hear ya, and, as I told Marie, I have nothing left to say to them. Of course, they’re over there peeing themselves trying to get me to respond to them, addressing posts to me. Too funny, but enough said about them.

    I’ve got to pore over this bailout bill in the paper this morning, weed out the pork that I’m sure has been planted in there somewhere….

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