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County Staff Hides The Budget Fat

By Greg L | 28 October 2008 | Prince William County | 52 Comments

Prince William County is looking for efficiencies and cost reductions in the next budget in order to handle expected tax revenue decreases over the next two years.  I spent a little time going through the various agency proposals, which looks a little bit like a half shift towards the zero-based budgeting the county should be doing, and the typical budgeting farce that’s normally done.  It’s fascinating to see what agencies are telling the board would be impacted by various levels of spending cuts, and what isn’t included and is apparently such a core function that it can’t withstand spending cuts.

Here are some of the items being ponied up as a spending cut options:

Here are a few things that aren’t included:

Some of these proposals are truly frightening, and some of them make you wonder why we had been paying for them in the first place.  Hopefully during the budget retreat the Supervisors can get more detailed information on the spending plans of the various agencies and find out what pet projects/low value initiatives can be cut in order to fund core responsibilities.

As usual, I’m not impressed much by the information the various agencies are willing to reveal to the Board of Supervisors about how they’re spending our tax dollars.  Looking at this list of potential savings, there’s a lot here that seems to be missing, and a lot of that has to do with the refusal by county staff to identify in anything but the broadest aggregated terms what they’re spending our tax dollars on.

Perhaps some readers would be interested in browsing through the available information and coming up with some of their own suggestions about where county government can economize so we can give our elected officials some ammo when they have their annual kabuki dance with the county staff.



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52 Comments

  1. Anonymous said on 29 Oct 2008 at 12:02 am:
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    Perhaps they can also consider cutting their salaries as well. (Sure!)

  2. Joe said on 29 Oct 2008 at 12:22 am:
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    Maybe the school district should cut the 2 new Associate Superintendent positions Walts just added last summer along with some of the other “top heavy” administrative managers. And the schools probably could attract and keep better teachers if they stopped running the school district like a “police state”, punishing any teachers or staff who disagree with the Administration’s policies! And then there is the grand new Administration Building just opening at Independence Hill this month!

  3. Here we Go Again said on 29 Oct 2008 at 1:17 am:
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    The Retreat on Friday will be very interesting to see how the Supervisors react to the FINANCE DIRECTORS list of what to do????Maybe he needs to go.
    The unit of Property Code Enforcement is slated to GO, Completely.
    It seems to me someone is putting forth all the things we fought to get, they now are on the chopping block? Why?
    Someone doesn’t like the sucess we have had with the 287g programs. It all seems to be tied into this and having a clean community.If all of this happens we will be the laughing stock of the Country.

    Of all of Public Works,only the Property Code is going. Why don’yt they have a better way for each Dept. to take a share of the load.

    We worked for a few years to get the FIVE YEAR BALANCED BUDGET and now they say that has to go.
    There are other things they say has to go but will be put out to the private sector but it will cost more.Are they kidding me???

    Anyone can go sit in on the Retreat but can’t say anything.
    They will have Breakfast, Lunch for them of course.

    Nows a good time to have them give up the DISCREATIONARY monies and limit their aides to TWO.

    Principi is spending $40000 on this Charret. It needs to be cancelled. We’ve been through all of this in years past.With the no money they are cutting out doing anything to Rt. One from Neabsco to Featherstone.So why do we need a Charret when it will not have money to do what is right.

    I guess this is for the Developers to take advantage of getting what they want.

    I hope the Supervisors tell this Finance guy and anyone who consulted with him,as I am sure Gerhart did, to get lost.

    Have everyone cut back and I mean everyone,every Dept. Maybe 1/3 off of each agency,Department,Committees,Commisions and Supervisors.

    Then see where we will be. They also said they were going to raise TAXES> WOW

  4. ben said on 29 Oct 2008 at 5:41 am:
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    this is so typical. they always seem to want to cut what the majority of the people want. i think it’s a ploy so they can raise taxes without the grumbling of the tax payers. i bet any number of us could find cuts without sacrificing the health and welfare of the citizens.

  5. DportM said on 29 Oct 2008 at 6:51 am:
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    The majority of the bulleted proposed budget cuts have to do with public safety issues and neighborhood services issues - unbelievable!

    And how do we know they are proposing to get rid of Property Code Enforcement - the very department that ensures that our neighborhoods aren’t degraded to third world slums? Please, someone direct me to a document that proposes the closure of PCE.

    They have to be out of their minds…

  6. G Man said on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:08 am:
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    DportM - Go to the link located at the top of the thread and look at the Public Works’ brief.

  7. DportM said on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:13 am:
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    Thanks, G Man.

  8. DportM said on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:16 am:
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    Since the state of Virginia already has a Human Rights Commission, this should be the first department removed from the budget since it is duplicative and therefore unnecessary.

  9. Adam Smith said on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:21 am:
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    It’s a simple, time tested strategy for maintaining a beauracrcy: offer up popular programs that the BOCS and Citizens like to distract Government from looking at real waste. By changing the dialog to popular programs (thus driving citizen input to support these programs and supervisor time to responding to these program inquiries), the BOCS never really gets to investigate the real “fat” in the county Budget.

    Budgets may be reduced by eliminating a few big things or a lot of small things. Big things are easier to discuss; however; they are harder to cut. County staff knows this. They should go back to the drawing board and look for the “small stuff” to tighten up everything (which is a strategy that protects popular programs) rather than distracting the BOCS with proposing that we cut “big things” that are popular. Looking for the “small things” is more work (and requires better management).

    In the end, we will probably cut some of both (a few big things and lots of small things) to stay afloat.

  10. TedKennedysSwimInstructor said on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:26 am:
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    Re: “It seems to me someone is putting forth all the things we fought to get, they now are on the chopping block? Why?”

    It’s a typical ruse used by liberals throughout federal, state, county and local government - keep the taxpayers focus on fighting for what’s needed the most to alleviate a more thorough examination of what’s needed the least.

  11. Anonymous said on 29 Oct 2008 at 8:33 am:
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    Yes, make big cutbacks/elimination of essential services such as law enforcement, public works and property code enforcement. We will look more like Mexico/Central America and other third world nations. Haven’t we learned anything?

  12. Loudoun Insider said on 29 Oct 2008 at 8:40 am:
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    Adam Smith beat me to it - well said. This is so typical of government budget cutting exercises that everyone should know it occurs by now. The big question is - will the supervisors fall for it (wink, wink) or will they tell the administration to get real and start over. That is the real question.

  13. Good Time Charlie said on 29 Oct 2008 at 8:55 am:
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    Eliminate Charlie Deane’s driver. Then eliminate Charlie Deane. Hire a Chief of Police who isn’t so old he requires a driver to travel to meetings.

  14. Brentsville Graduate said on 29 Oct 2008 at 9:17 am:
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    Eliminate crossing guards? Someone with a wicked sense of humor must have added that one to the list.

  15. Herndon Bob said on 29 Oct 2008 at 11:23 am:
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    If Prince William is anything like Fairfax and Loudoun, Look at the grants to the non-profit organizations. Most are pure pork……..

  16. jfk said on 29 Oct 2008 at 11:26 am:
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    Good Time Charlie said on 29 Oct 2008 at 8:55 am: Flag comment
    “Eliminate Charlie Deane’s driver. Then eliminate Charlie Deane. Hire a Chief of Police who isn’t so old he requires a driver to travel to meetings.”

    But then he can’t drink on the way to meetings!

  17. DportM said on 29 Oct 2008 at 12:11 pm:
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    Right, Herndon Bob.

    No pork/earmarks for any special interest groups or churches. Not with my tax dollars. Off the top of my head I can only think of one non-profit that should continue to receive funding - the Clean Community Council.

  18. TedKennedysSwimInstructor said on 29 Oct 2008 at 2:06 pm:
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    It’s very interesting when you look at the format the liberal bureaucrats in county government use to present budget cut impacts.

    See: http://www.pwcgov.org/documents/bocs/agendas/2008/1031/3-A.pdf

    Program Activity - that’s ok
    Current Service - that’s ok
    Impacts of Funding Level - that’s ok to a point but notice they never cite private sector alternatives to the program and never mention if the program is really needed in the first place.

  19. Monster_Mom said on 29 Oct 2008 at 2:10 pm:
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    Here’s another suggestion - dump the crummy elementary math program which costs more than double what the old program cost and meets fewer state standards in one year than the old program did in it’s entire K - 5 series.

    Here’s another idea - fire Superientendent Waltz. He makes more than any other Superintendent in the area and is a total jerk.

  20. Crumugin said on 29 Oct 2008 at 2:33 pm:
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    Soooo… if we are making significant cuts to the budget and reducing the size of Government, why do we need two Assistant County Executives (and their associated staffs)? I would propose that the County Executive’s office could “downsize” significantly to manage a much smaller Government in the future.

    Also, why not promote working at home to reduce in-County commuting. Studies show that allowing employees to work at home significantly reduce costs of facilities, infrastructure, etc. If we downsized Government enough and allowed many of what’s left to work at home, perhaps we could rent out most of the new Developmental Services building to new businesses that need a place to create a start-up (thus creating jobs, revenue, expanding out tax base, etc.)?

  21. Hard R said on 29 Oct 2008 at 4:11 pm:
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    Here’s a list:
    1. Eliminate unfilled personnel positions.
    2. Eliminate donation and grants to non-profit organizations.
    3. Eliminate payroll increases.
    4. Defer capital projects.
    5. Defer maintenance.
    6. Defer vehicle replacement.
    7. Evaluate health insurance cost sharing between employee and County.
    8. Increase user fees charged to non-County residents.
    9. Furlough employees one day a month without pay.
    10. Perform a zero-base review of all County services.
    11. Phase out (in 12 months) all Deputy and Deputy Assistant positions.
    12. Eliminate seasonal hiring.
    13. Evaluate Employee and County contribution to employee retirement plan.

  22. Crumugin said on 29 Oct 2008 at 5:44 pm:
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    What Here we Go Again said on 29 Oct 2008 at 1:17 am: The Retreat on Friday will be very interesting…

    I give up, what’s a Charret?

  23. A PWC Resident said on 29 Oct 2008 at 6:56 pm:
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    It’s really kinda simple. Instead of “across the board” they ought to figure out what is important and fund that. Then figure out the next tier. Keep going until the money is gone.

    Kinda like funding at your house. Did I really suggest that? I am sure my mortgage company would be very pleased to understand that I am reducing my payment to them by 33 percent, the same percentage as my trip to Europe for a vacation. (Never been there, but thought it made a good illustration.

  24. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:30 pm:
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    I have a GREAT idea on how to “cut the fat”
    1. Eliminate ALL benefits to illegal aliens (and ensure that illegal aliens do NOT use their children to get benefits).
    2. Crack down on employers and residents who aid and abet. Use all fines collected to supplement the existing budget.
    3. Enforce welfare and foodstamp time limits (no one should be “living” on these things for a long haul).
    4. Have ICE look into anyone who uses hospital facilities without insurance.

  25. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:33 pm:
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    http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=55262
    “Coverage & Access | Health Services for Undocumented Immigrants Vary State by State in Absence of Federal Guidance”

  26. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:36 pm:
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    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-29-immigration-raid_N.htm
    “Iowa meatpacker fined $10M after immigration raid”

  27. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:38 pm:
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    Off topic slightly….http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE49R3ZV20081028
    “NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc’s (WMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) Sam’s Club division is opening a new type of warehouse club aimed at attracting Hispanic shoppers with an expanded selection of products from Mexico.”

    I didn’t realize that a separate store was needed to cater to a specific group of people!

  28. 40 years in Woodbridge said on 29 Oct 2008 at 10:20 pm:
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    Crumugin,

    A “Charrette” is a way for Frank Principi to pay $40,000 to have a company come in and pull all kinds of stake holders or potential stake holders together to come up with a plan to develop/ re-develop a very small portion along Rt. 1 near the County line with Fairfax.

    Geekies wasn’t that the purpose of Potomac Communities 7 flipping years ago? http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/001764.pdf Lets see where that has gotten us hhmmmmm NO WHERE except for a continued decline in the appearance of the corridor and ZERO enforcement of existing violations along this area and new development on darn near every vacant piece of land anywhere near Rt. 1 from Rippon BLVD north to the County line.

    It is nothing but a bunch of waste of money. Serious business and developers will not be interested in a filthy depressed area, you need to clean up what you have and show that the area has potential but that will never happen.

  29. manassascityresident said on 29 Oct 2008 at 10:25 pm:
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    Nice to see you Patriot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  30. DPortM said on 30 Oct 2008 at 8:45 am:
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    Welcome back, Patriot. Have you been out of the county protecting patriotism and the American way?

  31. Mighty Putty said on 30 Oct 2008 at 8:50 am:
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    The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 29 Oct 2008 at 7:38 pm: Flag comment
    Off topic slightly….http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE49R3ZV20081028
    “NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc’s (WMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) Sam’s Club division is opening a new type of warehouse club aimed at attracting Hispanic shoppers with an expanded selection of products from Mexico.”

    I didn’t realize that a separate store was needed to cater to a specific group of people!

    Suggested new name for store ” Tio Samuel’s Casa Grande”.
    This could be a great sting operation for ICE.

  32. Mighty Putty said on 30 Oct 2008 at 8:53 am:
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    This is yet ANOTHER reason to stop shopping at WalMart. Businesses need to be penalized when they try to cater like this.

    I predict this will go over as well as the Shopper Foods International did. You need the gringos to make money, folks.

  33. Anchor Baby said on 30 Oct 2008 at 9:30 am:
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    I say - call them on the bluff. Demand that we go with the 33% cut in public safety funding. When they realize that we *want* that much money cut from the budget they’ll suddenly reprioritize all the sacrificial lambs that they’ve put out and cut the true fat. Will we cut meat, sure. But, if an area can’t support spending at a certain level its reasonable to assume that we don’t *need* spending at that level.

    The only people that really get ‘hurt’ by this are those that still believe that the police are around to ‘protect’ them and make them safe. Police exist to enforce laws and investigate crimes.

    Massive government cuts are needed to avoid even higher taxation in this area. And, we need to stop looking at build this counties residential districts to the detriment of our business community.

  34. Adam Smith said on 30 Oct 2008 at 10:07 am:
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    What Mighty Putty said on 30 Oct 2008 at 8:53 am This is yet ANOTHER reason to stop shopping at WalMart.

    There are enough legal Hispanics (and other minorities) in this country to justify businesses that cater to their needs. WalMart and lots of other companies are responding to the free market. Businesses are popping up all over the place that caters to specific groups (including old white guys and gals). That’s ok. Personally, I really like Global Foods (as one example).

    Shoppers is a great example. They followed the market (and the money).

    We (white folks) are slowly sliding into minority status. Get used to it… and its ok (as we join the rest of the world be evolving into a pluralistic society). Those two oceans just don’t protect us like they used to.

  35. Citizen12 said on 30 Oct 2008 at 10:41 am:
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    Resolution to this problem is to both cut services and increase cost to individuals using these services. You can start by increasing undervalued services, such as those related to the justice system. Just two examples are:

    Instead of a $40.00 fine for driving without a license up it to $500.00. If found guilty of any crime, plea bargains or not, you pay a restitution fee for the cost of arrest, processing, court appointed lawyers and incarceration.

    Big business somehow convinced government that more bodies meant more people to pay taxes. While this helped business with lower labor cost, higher margins and expanded markets, it backfired on government. How? Because lower wages and under the table workers meant less tax income and a higher cost per capita delivering services.

    Government needs to stop weezin’ off the citizens good fortune i.e. wind fall from property value increases. If they tie their cost of doing business to a more stable formula they would not find themselves short every ten years or so when the market takes a dump.

  36. Anonymous said on 30 Oct 2008 at 10:45 am:
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    What Citizen12 said… I’m with you!

    I think I’m going to the BOCS retreat Friday just to see what’s going on. I believe its open to the public (although the public can’t speak or participate in the process.)

  37. Citizen12 said on 30 Oct 2008 at 11:22 am:
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    Adam Smith said on 30 Oct 2008 at 10:07 am: Flag comment

    …..Businesses are popping up all over the place that caters to specific groups

    **********************************************************

    Adam Smith, I believe you have stumbled onto a million dollar idea.

    Shop at …………………Old Americans R’ Us

    Weather your White, Black, Red, Yellow or Brown

    and Ol’ Glory still fly’s above your piece of ground,

    stop by Old Americans R’ Us, where value is found.

    We’ve got isles filled with bibles and guns

    And giant lawn darts, so your kids can share in the fun

    All the things on our shelf’s, our displays and tables

    Are tagged with red, white and blue

    “Proudly made in the U.S.A.” labels

  38. Anchor Baby said on 30 Oct 2008 at 2:03 pm:
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    Union labor makes buying U.S.A. produced items very expensive and doesn’t guarantee quality.

    I don’t really know anything that I have that is ‘American Made’. My cars are all foreign, my pistols are Austrian, my clothes are central american, my electronics are Japanese… I really can’t think of anything??

  39. Mighty Putty said on 30 Oct 2008 at 2:09 pm:
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    Adam Smith said on 30 Oct 2008 at 10:07 am: Flag comment
    What Mighty Putty said on 30 Oct 2008 at 8:53 am This is yet ANOTHER reason to stop shopping at WalMart.

    There are enough legal Hispanics (and other minorities) in this country to justify businesses that cater to their needs. WalMart and lots of other companies are responding to the free market. Businesses are popping up all over the place that caters to specific groups (including old white guys and gals). That’s ok. Personally, I really like Global Foods (as one example).

    Shoppers is a great example. They followed the market (and the money).

    We (white folks) are slowly sliding into minority status. Get used to it… and its ok (as we join the rest of the world be evolving into a pluralistic society). Those two oceans just don’t protect us like they used to.”

    Wow, a lot of assumptions on the part of Mr. Smith. Perhaps I am not old and white? Regardless, I can’t think of any store that caters to the whims of white folk exclusively.

    I prefer a melting pot to pluralism, and just because the world jumps off a cliff doesn’t mean that the US should. The USA is not about protection and isolation, but has always welcomed immigrants who want to leave their mother lands and become part of something new. Shoppers Food made a poor decision that they later reversed. This goes to show that most Americans don’t like companies that cater to groups who don’t want to assimilate and become part of the greater American culture.

  40. Adam Smith said on 30 Oct 2008 at 4:42 pm:
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    What Mighty Putty said on 30 Oct 2008 at 2:09 pm re white folks & melting pot.

    I guess you don’t go to many Country Western bars. They cater to folks who are mostly white and there are venues for every other race, culture, etc. on the planet. That’s an example of the free market I’m talking about… and that’s (IMHO) ok.

    Shoppers Food responded to the market when it opened a Hispanic Grocery and when it closed it (i.e., the market changed and so did Shoppers Food). Its shareholders (the only folks Shoppers Food or any other publically owned business have to answer to) expect nothing less.

    I also agree with the melting pot analogy. In the past, things came out of the pot a lovely shade of white (culture-wise). In the future, they will probably come out a beautiful shade of brown. I don’t think you are espousing something new, I think you are espousing something old. There is nothing in the constitution that enshrines what we perceive to be “our culture” (if such a thing exists).

    It’s a math problem, Mighty Putty… and we “lose” (if you care to look at it that way) or we “adapt” (my preference).

  41. AWCheney said on 30 Oct 2008 at 5:47 pm:
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    ““Proudly made in the U.S.A.” labels”

    THAT’S what Wal-Mart used to be about. I’ll wager that old Sam Walton started spinning in his grave the moment those kids of his took over!

  42. Here we Go Again said on 30 Oct 2008 at 6:37 pm:
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    HAVE YOU SEEN THE LATEST? ORDERS FROM THOSE WHO SPEAK SPANISH AND APPARENTLY NOT INTERESTED IN SEEING OR LEARNING .

    a NEIGHBOR SENT ONE OF THOSE POST OFFICE CARDS FOR CHANGE OF ADDRESS,IT HAD A LARGE PRINTED ADDRESS,STREET ONLY AND THEN LAST NAME ONLY. THEN DOWN NEAR THE BOTTOM IT SAYS DELIVER ONLY SPANISH WRITTEN MAIL.

    I saw it as it was delivered to the wrong address. Boy now we are going to rule the Post Office??????

  43. Citizen12 said on 30 Oct 2008 at 7:37 pm:
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    Anchor Baby said on 30 Oct 2008 at 2:03 pm: Flag comment

    You’re right, union made and high quality do not always go hand in hand. But on the other hand Union did lead the way for better wages and safety for the American worker- union or not.

    Allot of products are no longer made here because even non union wages cannot compete with the third world. Now their only obstacle is getting us used to third world wages and living conditions here in America.

    The American consumer has been duped into thinking overseas labor is saving them money. They want the nice house, new car and a great paycheck for their labors. Yet at the same time they tell their fellow countrymen in the manufacturing industries they are not worth THEIR pay check.

    Many American made goods cost no more, and some times less than imported goods. The reason they are not carried by the big stores is the high margins they make selling imports to American consumers at the same price they would sell American made goods.

    As far as wall mart and the direction were headed as consumers:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/

  44. Concerned said on 31 Oct 2008 at 8:48 am:
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    Crumugin said:

    “Soooo… if we are making significant cuts to the budget and reducing the size of Government, why do we need two Assistant County Executives (and their associated staffs)? I would propose that the County Executive’s office could “downsize” significantly to manage a much smaller Government in the future.

    Also, why not promote working at home to reduce in-County commuting. Studies show that allowing employees to work at home significantly reduce costs of facilities, infrastructure, etc. If we downsized Government enough and allowed many of what’s left to work at home, perhaps we could rent out most of the new Developmental Services building to new businesses that need a place to create a start-up (thus creating jobs, revenue, expanding out tax base, etc.)?”

    This comment is right on the money. Start with canning Melissa Peacor. She is totally incompetent and widely despised by rank-and-file County employees trying to do their jobs while worrying about being laid off because of PWC’s poor management under Gerhart. The only reason she has her job is her practice of kiss-up and kick-down. In other words, lick the a** of anyone above her (i.e., Gerhart and his developer buddies) to curry their favor and treat anyone below her like scum.

    Second, Maureen Caddigan proposed at a recent BOCS meeting to increase work from home, increased use of flex schedules, etc. to reduce commuting and infrastructure costs. Gerhart shot her down unceremoniously. This move was nothing more than his empire-building drive and desire to sit on his throne controlling everyone. My only problem with Maureen was that she did not stick to her guns and stand up to this pompous jerk when she clearly had a good idea.

  45. Crumugin said on 31 Oct 2008 at 9:36 am:
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    What Concerned said on 31 Oct 2008 at 8:48 am

    I think Gerhart knows how to grow a Government, he just doesn’t now how to shrink a Government (think Seinfield).

    Perhaps he’s the wrong leader for these troubled times.

    Perhaps the BOCS will recognize these facts after they look at his recommendations this morning and look for the right person to lead us through the recession (its like the military… wartime leaders have skillsets different from peacetime leaders. Perhaps the same applies to our Supervisors?)

    He should have proposed eliminating one Assistant County Executive. Unfortunately, staff size is a component of compensation.

  46. Anonymous said on 31 Oct 2008 at 10:22 am:
    Flag comment

    Citizen12 said on 30 Oct 2008 at 7:37 pm: Flag comment
    Anchor Baby said on 30 Oct 2008 at 2:03 pm: Flag comment

    You’re right, union made and high quality do not always go hand in hand. But on the other hand Union did lead the way for better wages and safety for the American worker- union or not.

    Ask the textile and shoe manufacturing industries as well as a host of others what the unions did for them. The unions priced the industries out of of business and thus we have the “cheap” substitutes.

  47. Anonymous said on 31 Oct 2008 at 10:25 am:
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    Good Time Charlie said on 29 Oct 2008 at 8:55 am: Flag comment
    Eliminate Charlie Deane’s driver. Then eliminate Charlie Deane. Hire a Chief of Police who isn’t so old he requires a driver to travel to meetings.

    If the COP is so “inconpacitated” that he cannot drive his own vehicle he should be replaced or………maybe when he attends his latino outreach meetings, they could provide him with a vehicle and/or driver. SURE!!

  48. CONVA said on 31 Oct 2008 at 3:29 pm:
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    It is called giving up the “Gloden Watch”.

  49. CONVA said on 31 Oct 2008 at 3:29 pm:
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    “GOLDEN”

  50. Citizen12 said on 31 Oct 2008 at 9:56 pm:
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    Anonymous said on 31 Oct 2008 at 10:22 am: Flag comment

    “Ask the textile and shoe manufacturing industries as well as a host of others what the unions did for them. The unions priced the industries out of of business and thus we have the “cheap” substitutes.”

    Well, the worker will tell you what the union did FOR them, while the management would like you to believe what they say the union did TO them.

    While the pendulum has swung both ways, the ultimate decision has always been on the side of management, with government on its side.

    Now they take their plant overseas and the only thing to agree on is how much government subsidies (our tax dollars) we will provide to the corporations in the form of unemployment benefits, welfare, housing subsidies, medical benefits, food stamps etc. to the growing numbers of all their former employees.

    I know they don’t lose much sleep while we pay $100 and up for shoes made in viet-nam by people making $10.00 for a 65 hour work week.
    http://www.saigon.com/~nike/news/ny110897.htm

  51. CONVA said on 1 Nov 2008 at 9:40 am:
    Flag comment

    Citizen12,
    You might want to also consider, onerus regulations including “diversity” training, eco requirements, etc.

  52. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 1 Nov 2008 at 5:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    Adam Smith said “In the past, things came out of the pot a lovely shade of white (culture-wise).”

    What exactly does your statement mean? Please explain.

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