Driving liberals, dhimmis and illegal alien apologists absolutely insane since 2005...

DMV: The Law Is For Other People, Not Us

By Greg L | 31 December 2008 | Illegal Aliens, Virginia Politics | 29 Comments

After concerns were raised that Virginia was issuing drivers licenses to illegal aliens, the General Assembly passed HB 1954 in 2003 which added a requirement in the Virginia Code § 46.2-328.1 to have license applicants prove their legal status.  After that passed, I guess we thought we had this issue licked. But have we, really?  No.

The law as it stands now reads in part as follows:

…Department shall not issue an original license, permit, or special identification card to any applicant who has not presented to the Department, with the application, valid documentary evidence that the applicant is either (i) a citizen of the United States, (ii) a legal permanent resident of the United States, or (iii) a conditional resident alien of the United States.

The idea here was that as license holders in Virginia came up for renewal, they’d demonstrate that they had legal presence at the time of renewal, and that new license applicants would demonstrate legal presence when they applied for a Virginia driver’s license.  Not only would that help us reduce the number of illegal aliens attempting to fraudulently obtain licenses, but it would make it a lot harder for terrorists bent on flying into buildings from getting on airplanes.  So how is our super-duper effort to prevent illegal aliens from renewing their driver’s licenses?

My license renewal application answers that pretty clearly.  Notice the requirement to provide documentary evidence as the law requires?  No, I don’t either.

YOU JUST CHECK A BOX.  Oh, yeah, I’m just sure illegal aliens aren’t checking the “yes” boxes on top of this, especially since there’s no requirement to document legal status at all.  It would be awfully nice if the DMV actually followed Virginia law, like Virginia drivers are supposed to.

We might want to be running the voter list and the list of drivers license holders against the database at DHS, since it doesn’t seem like we’re doing anything at all to actually prevent illegal aliens from getting drivers licenses or registering to vote.  At least lying on this is a Class 2 misdemeanor, if anyone would bother to figure out whether anyone actually was lying or not.  From what I’m lead to understand, none of these applications are actually checked.  None.



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29 Comments

  1. Dave in PWC said on 31 Dec 2008 at 6:08 am:
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    When I moved here in 2005 I had to show my passport and my Rhode Island drivers license in order to get a Virginia license. They took my passport and made a copy of it for their records. So they were checking then for new applicants. I went to the DMV down Godwin Dr. and there sure where a lot of hispanics waiting in line to take the test. This year to renew for 8 years all I did was do it over the internet.

  2. anon said on 31 Dec 2008 at 6:33 am:
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    Charge higher fees for those people to get licenses and then DMV will start looking at their legal status.

    I didn’t know the DMV was a tax collecting agency until I tried to take a co-owner off the title and registration of my car. They got stuck on stupid that it was a sales transaction even though my name was STAYING on the title. They just had to go out of their way to try to charge me Va sales tax again for my car. Dipshits.

  3. BattleCat said on 31 Dec 2008 at 7:59 am:
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    I like the questions on the gun purchase form.

  4. Turn PW Blue said on 31 Dec 2008 at 8:24 am:
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    Nice selective quoting of the law. Did you actually read the Code of Virginia before posting your diatribe, specifically paragraph C which deals with renewals (which is what your rant concerns)?

    C. Any license or special identification card for which an application has been made for renewal, duplication or reissuance shall be presumed to have been issued in accordance with the provisions of subsection A, provided that, at the time the application is made, the license or special identification card has not expired, or been cancelled, suspended or revoked. The requirements of subsection A shall apply, however, to a renewal, duplication or reissuance if the Department is notified by a local, state or federal government agency that the individual seeking such renewal, duplication or reissuance is neither a citizen of the United States nor legally in the United States.

    Note in particular the part that states “Any license or special identification card for which an application has been made for renewal, duplication or reissuance shall be presumed to have been issued in accordance with the provisions of subsection A.” Since your license had not expired, been cancelled, suspended, or revoked, the presumption is that it was issue to someone who has already proved legal presence once. Thus, you just check a box.

    And this was not some administrative change from what was intended in the original House bill which states, in part:

    Applications for renewal, duplication, or reissuance of licenses and special identification cards will be presumed to have been validly issued, provided that, at the time the application is made, the license has not expired, or been cancelled, suspended or revoked.

    Once again, a lot of sound and fury over nothing.

  5. June said on 31 Dec 2008 at 8:37 am:
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    Dave in PWC said on 31 Dec 2008 at 6:08 am: This year to renew for 8 years all I did was do it over the internet…….

    My renewal notice arrived last month for renewal in January. It specifically stated that I can NOT renew online and must renew AT a DMV office, presenting specific documents.

    I just re-read the form as a double check. Unless this new renewal process went into effect January 2009, I don’t think you renewed your drivers license over the internet.

    Are you sure you don’t mean your registration and plates?

  6. Turn PW Blue said on 31 Dec 2008 at 8:44 am:
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    June:

    If you fall into any of the categories listed on the DMV Web site (http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/citizen/drivers/ineligibility.asp) you must renew in person. Otherwise, you can renew online (and are actually encouraged to do so).

  7. June said on 31 Dec 2008 at 8:48 am:
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    The following has been presented to the GA for consideration in the February session. This would apply to ALL drivers, and make the roads safer for everyone. To date, Plum and Howell will not comment when asked if they will vote for this bill.

    ============

    “The law in Virginia allows for the impoundment of vehicles in certain instances when drivers are found to have revoked or suspended licenses. Herndon is requesting that the General Assembly pass legislation to amend this law to allow for administrative impoundment of vehicles driven by people being charged for a second time or more for driving without a license, following a conviction for a first offense. We are proposing that in such cases, vehicles should be impounded for 30 days, and that offenders be held responsible for the cost of impounding and storing the vehicles. Jurisdictions that do not have storage facilities could use private towing and storage contractors. “

  8. June said on 31 Dec 2008 at 9:05 am:
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    Turn PW Blue said on 31 Dec 2008 at 8:44 am: Flag comment

    June:

    If you fall into any of the categories listed on the DMV Web site (http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/citizen/drivers/ineligibility.asp) you must renew in person. Otherwise, you can renew online (and are actually encouraged to do so)……

    =============

    I just checked my registration form - because I wear glasses I have to take the Vision Test. Bummer!!!! Ironically, when I updated my prescription about 6 months ago, my distance vision improved but my arms seem to be getting shorter when I try to read text. ;>D

    My weight and photo are a little “outdated” too, so it probably won’t hurt to update.

    I planned to go to the Fair Oaks Mall DMV Monday anyway. Hopefully the lines won’t be too long.

  9. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 31 Dec 2008 at 9:08 am:
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    When I changed the address on my license I had to show a birth certificate. I had one from the circuit clerk of the county I was born in with a raised stamp seal and ink signature. I was denied use of that document. I had to order one from a place in CA. When it came, it was IDENTICAL to the one I had except it had the vital statistics stamp on it. I presented both of them and asked why, the lady said it is because they didn’t want a fraudulent document.

  10. Advocator said on 31 Dec 2008 at 9:24 am:
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    June:

    Do you have a bill no. for the legislation you quoted?

  11. June said on 31 Dec 2008 at 9:27 am:
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    Oh great, I have one of the “old ones.” I have a passport, but will probably need one at some time in the near future, so I might as well ask about the “new and improved” birth certificate.

    Thanks for the heads up.

  12. June said on 31 Dec 2008 at 9:29 am:
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    Advocator said on 31 Dec 2008 at 9:24 am:
    June: Do you have a bill no. for the legislation you quoted?

    There is no bill - its a recommendation to introduce a bill to expand on the existing legislation.

    I seriously doubt this will happen though, our GA is not all that Citizen Friendly.

  13. Advocator said on 31 Dec 2008 at 9:29 am:
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    While I’m logged in: Happy New Year to all!

  14. Advocator said on 31 Dec 2008 at 9:31 am:
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    @ June: “I seriously doubt this will happen though, our GA is not all that Citizen Friendly.”

    You got that understatement of the year in just under the wire.

  15. chicko said on 31 Dec 2008 at 9:57 am:
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    I just renewed on the web, was quick and easy honestly. I wear corrective lenses and didnt have to go there. However I went a few years ago since I needed a motorcycle endorsement which was pretty easy (other than standing in a long line full people)

  16. June said on 31 Dec 2008 at 10:22 am:
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    Chicko, I haven’t added to or amended my drivers license since it was initially issued. Wish I could renew online but the renewal form clearly states I have to go into an office and take the Vision Test.

    To bad we couldn’t take the test on line, or send in a copy our latest Optometrist appointment and prescription updte.

    Such is life.

  17. Johnson said on 31 Dec 2008 at 10:44 am:
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    Medic- it sucks that they wouldn’t take the original, but at least the effort was made to verify the documentation. I showed three different forms of citizenship identification (original birth certificate from D.C., federal law enforcement credentials and official U.S. passport) when I renewed a few years ago. I have frequent dealings with the DMV down here in Hampton roads, as the returning service people have to present us with certain documentation when importing their cars into the U.S. from foreign duty stations. I called the info number from the DMV website to see if I could talk to the local (Newport News) DMV manager to coordinate our efforts in helping these returning GI’s through the process more efficiently. The phone was answered by a person at the Richmond office who would not give me the Newport News office phone number, transfer me or even tell me how to contact them. Instead, I was informed that I had to go there in person and make an appointment. I thanked her for her time and non-effort in helping me and let it drop. There has to be phones at the various DMV offices, so why are the numbers kept secret? Is the service really so bad that people harass them that much? Shouldn’t that be a big hint to improve service? I understand that it’s not the easiest job on earth and I am sympathetic, ensuring that I am as courteous as possible in my dealings with them.
    My ideal answer is to have our people (Homeland Security) at the DMV to verify documents. We have trained experts and a document lab for that express purpose. We teamed up with DMV in Ohio for a trial run last year after they passed similar legislation and it worked like a charm. We worked with the locals to prosecute those who presented false documents and the word spread like wildfire in the illegal alien community to keep away from the DMV, even though we did not arrest or detain anyone based on immigration status.

    If we make it hard to be here, they will leave.

  18. Vigilant1 said on 31 Dec 2008 at 12:17 pm:
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    June said on 31 Dec 2008 at 8:37 am: Flag comment
    My renewal notice arrived last month for renewal in January. It specifically stated that I can NOT renew online and must renew AT a DMV office, presenting specific documents.

    Did you renew your present licnese via the internet five years ago? You can do it once and then you must take the eye test for the renewal. I renewd mine five years ago and when the renewal came up, it said I must renew at a DMV office. The eye test was the reason it could not be renewed again on the internet. New license is good for 8 years now.

  19. Anonymous said on 31 Dec 2008 at 12:27 pm:
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    A bit off subject but has anyone other than me noticed the influx of Hispanics back in the Sudley/Westgate area? A number of them are moving into the same houses that were previously occupied by Hispanics and then went to foreclosure. Hope we are not going to end up with the same problems we had a year ago!

  20. FormerCityofManassasResident said on 31 Dec 2008 at 1:51 pm:
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    I moved recently, and when I went to change the address on my license - as it was 3 months away from needing renewal, they gave me the opportunity to renew it over the internet at the same time, and as other posters said - more or less encouraged me to do so. No proof of anything, no need for vision test or new photo, etc. My new license now expires on 3/31/2017! By then I won’t look anything like the photo that was taken back in 2004.

  21. CONVA said on 31 Dec 2008 at 2:54 pm:
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    I renewed my driver license over the internet in December and am good until 2013.

  22. rebelreggie said on 31 Dec 2008 at 3:03 pm:
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    Undocumented Illegal Aliens in North Carolina Face Deportation

    By Alexandra Vilchez

    CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA — More than 50,000 Hispanics in North Carolina will not be able to renew their driver’s licenses in 2009 and could face deportation thanks to the state’s eight separate programs aimed at detecting undocumented immigrants.

    From Jan. 1, 2002, to Aug. 28, 2006, North Carolina permitted the use of a taxpayer identification number, an ITIN or W-7, so that residents lacking a Social Security number could apply for a driver’s license.

    During that period, the Division of Motor Vehicles issued 220,983 licenses valid for five years to applicants presenting the ITIN as identification, the majority of them undocumented immigrants of Hispanic origin.

    But under political pressure from anti-immigrant groups reporting that “illegals” from other states were flooding into North Carolina to take out licenses fraudulently, the state legislature approved a restrictive law on July 2006.

    The law now bars anybody without legal status in the United States from having a driver’s license or a government-issued ID.

    According to DMV figures, for the year 2009 around 50,555 drivers - mostly undocumented Hispanics - that obtained licenses with the ITIN must present a Social Security number to get a new one.

    Without a license, undocumented Hispanics can neither register a vehicle nor get insurance.

    That situation, according to Tony Asion, director of the El Pueblo group in the North Carolina capital of Raleigh, is keeping the state from “collecting a large amount of money from taxes on these services.”

    “People don’t want to drive without licenses but they don’t have any other choice than to take a chance and drive, since they can’t get to distant places on a bike, and some rural towns don’t have good transportation systems,” Asion told Efe.

    An analysis by The News and Observer newspaper using figures from the court system showed in June that Hispanics are fined for not having a license more than any other ethnic group although they make up only 7 percent of the state’s total population.

    From April 2006 until now, eight North Carolina counties have activated the 287g program that allows verification of the immigration status of foreign detainees in local jails.

    That means that if an undocumented alien is arrested in any of those counties for not having a driver’s license, he or she could face deportation.

    A report by the North Carolina sheriffs’ association revealed last month that between Jan. 1 and Sept. 30, 4,511 foreigners were investigated under the 287g program, of which 3,359 were undocumented.

    Of that total, approximately 3,182 were deported and another 177 had previous orders to leave the country.

    Some 829, or 23 percent, were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol and 1,215, or 33 percent, for minor traffic infractions.

    Eleanor Kinnaird, a Democratic state senator from Carrboro north of Raleigh, told Efe that the 287g is a program that encourages racial profiling.

    “They take Hispanics to jail for not having a license and to citizens they just issue a summons to appear in court. That is simple discrimination,” the senator said.

    Asion predicts that in 2009 the arrests of undocumented aliens for not having a license will continue, and for that reason the organization he directs will begin talks this year with lawmakers and will pressure them to restore the privilege of driving to the undocumented.

    “It’s better for the state in these times of financial crisis. And the streets are safer if people know the laws and can respond in case of an accident,” he said.

  23. BothPartiesDoColludeAgainstYouAndMarketToYourFears said on 31 Dec 2008 at 3:16 pm:
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    Great story. Looks like NC is doing something right.

  24. Johnson said on 31 Dec 2008 at 3:29 pm:
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    Actually, the illegal aliens in NC do have a choice-they can leave.

  25. Dave in PWC said on 31 Dec 2008 at 4:28 pm:
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    June,

    I’m told that if you have a speeding ticket you also have to retake the written test, although I got one at the Delaware/Maryland border in 2006 and that didn’t hamper me from renewing online for 8 years. Maybe they don’t communicate with Virginia, Delaware that is.

    I have heard on this blog that PWCPD made over 10,000 stops last year for driving with no license. I’m guessing the majority are illegals. If we could get our BOCS to adopt a law to impound any car driven by someone without a license this could lead to many illegals leaving the county and easing the school burden of their anchor babies.

  26. June said on 31 Dec 2008 at 7:10 pm:
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    Nope, no speeding ticket. Just a Vision Test.

  27. Citizen12 said on 31 Dec 2008 at 7:46 pm:
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    For an original, the requirements seem strict but really just and expanded list found on the I-9 employee form, where you get to pick and choose what paperwork you will present as proof.

    http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/pdf/dmv141.pdf

    That being said, if you had already purchased a crooked operators permit via your crooked “driving instructor” and their crooked DMV accomplice at say, Baileys Crossroads, or some such location, then a simple on line renewal is all that is required.

    Happy New Year and Happy Motoring in 2009!

  28. FormerCityofManassasResident said on 1 Jan 2009 at 7:16 am:
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    Regarding speeding tickets and having to retake the written exam - you have to have 2 or more in the period since you last renewed your license. One speeding ticket (or moving violation) won’t make you have to retake the written exam.

  29. Pat.Herve said on 5 Jan 2009 at 11:16 am:
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    How much would they have to raise the renewal fee to cover the costs of the additional staff and training required?

    Is that a price we are willing to pay (tax increase)?

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