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The Impact Of Corrupt Governments
By Greg L | 7 January 2009 | National Politics, Illegal Aliens | 86 Comments
Jim Patrick notes that there’s a lot we can achieve by looking at some of the larger issues that are driving illegal aliens to come here. Although the left constantly harps on various international policies that the United States pursues as the supposed reason why foreign nationals feel compelled to unlawfully flood across our borders, a much simpler and logical explanation exists. Their governments plain suck, and as rational human beings, they want to escape. Fix these governments, and there’s a lot less incentive for twenty million or so illegal aliens to be here instead of their homes.
So for all you bleeding-heart lefties out there, the best thing that could ever happen to our southern neighbors is government reform.
To all of you cold-hearted right-wingers, the best thing that could ever happen to our southern neighbors is government reform.
To everyone else, there is only one humane, reasonable and responsible response to the waves of poverty stricken humanity that is washing over our borders: government reform in Central America.
Given that America is spending millions every day in Iraq and Afghanistan to bring decent governments to the area; it would seem reasonable for America’s federal government to push our neighbors in Latin America —diplomatically and economically— toward ethics reform.
What’s so hard about that?
So just how would we rid central American governments of the kind of widespread corruption and abuse for which they are so famous? We certainly can’t subsidize good governance. We’re not going to occupy a half-dozen nations in order to reform their governments. So what do we do? What can we do?
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Well, could seal our borders and eventually, residents of those countries would get soooooooooo “fed up” with it that they’d revolt. That might be ONE solution…
Not a lot, but …
Encouraging their citizens to self-deport from here and return there is a good start. It must be noted that the most recent Mexican election was decided by the fact that so many of their poorer citizxens weren’t there to vote. Calderon would not have won but for the massive illegal immigration into the US of Mexico’s citizens (15% of working-age Mexicans).
There is less incentive for reform down there if they can use the US as a release valve for their poor. And less potential for social change.
It should be noted that many of those nations have resources and wealth. Their problem is that their citizens have never stood up and collectively fought for the things that Americans did circa the first part of the 20th Century.
And when they come here, they merely degrade wages in this country as well, and empower the wealthy in BOTH countries.
I would agree with the premise that government reform is needed, but it’s more than just government reform that is required to change the illegal immigration equation. Economic reform will be equally (if not more) essential as well. Even if Mexico’s government were to transform overnight into the model of egalitarian democracy, if Mexico’s economy is in the same state, there will still be a lure to crossing into the United States.
As I have said in comments on this blog and elsewhere, if you truly want to stem the flow of illegal immigrants across the border, you have to remove the biggest incentive–money. Cracking down on those who come into this country is a “drop at a time” solution but the target is an easy one. Going after the businesses and industries that profit from cheap illegal immigrant labor and that provide the key incentive for risking prosecution (not to mention life and limb) is probably a better tactic, but it’s not a popular one. When you go after business and industry, you’re going after the people who pay for your re-election…the people who are seen as “fine, upstanding” members of their communities…people who are a lot more like you and me than those “invaders” from the South.
But until you change the perceived promise of “easy money” and “the land of riches,” regardless of what happens with government reform, you will still have those that look to enter the United States by any means necessary to reap the rewards.
I hope it’s no revelation to anyone that immigration occurs everywhere (not just in North America) where there are marked discrepancies in economic activity and/or political freedom (the two often go together) along the border of contiguous nations. The more marked the discrepancies, the more desperate the measures that people will take to gain freedom and economic viability. That’s why there was massive illegal emigration from Eastern Europe and SE Asia under communist regimes. It’s why there was massive immigration from Mexico and Central America into the United States. As the economy here has started to unravel, immigration (legal and illegal) from the south has fallen dramatically.
Corruption (govenrmental or private) saps economic vitality by distorting markets for goods and services. While it is nearly impossible to change a well-embedded culture of corruption from the outside, the elimination of trade barriers between countries tends to eliminate economic disparities. That’s why one expects North American conservatives who have concerns about illegal immigration from Central America to be tireless advocates of Free Trade Agreements, lowering of tariffs and other trade barriers, and free, legal movement of labor inputs. These things minimize the economic incentives to emigrate, and, over the long haul, they put political pressure on corrupt governments to reform.
Readers of this site need to really ramp up their support for NAFTA, CAFTA, bilateral trade agreements with the Andean countries and comprehensive federal immigration reform. You guys are too reticent to be politically effective on these points.
Freedom and TPWB make valid points. Freedom, if we seal the borders, it would solve a myriad of problems. Mexico is already run by the dopers. The question is, how long will Mexicans cower? By the way, Mexico has very strict gun control for a reason. Civilians are forbidden to own military caliber firearms. Civilians can’t demand better government if they aren’t armed. TPWB, is it really our responsibility to provide parity to poorer countries through free trade? We can go back to making our own clothes and plastic sh!t to sell at Wal-Mart. It’ll cost a bit more. I’ll get over it. The world comes to us for trade because we have the money. The Chinese, Vietnamese, Cubans and Iranians have figured it out. If you’re not doing business in the U.S., you’re not doing business. Look at how our mortgage debacle has affected world economies. They take their cues from us. I maintain that corruption is destroying our country. Term limits would severely limit the power that campaign contributors have over politicians. We need to clean out Congress by voting out all incumbants and set the example. The rest of the world needs to rise to our level. We shouldn’t sink to theirs.
Someone on this site advocated a long time ago to arm all those we deport with AK-47’s. Sounds like a few others would be on board with that suggestion. Exporting revolution to regimes who export their flotsam and jetsam to us seems like “Fair Trade” to me.
We have an arrogant, incompetent, illiterate, and inept fool in the White House the last 8 years that solved no existing problems but created new many ones and made the old ones worse, a demoralized and decimated military, plundered treasury , trashed world standing, trampled rule of Law and Constitution. This nation is sinking under debt and the market is in a free fall & sinking into an depression, while an tidal wave of Uneducated Illegal Aliens are waving the Mexican flag, demanding their rights, while sucking at the trough of Public Welfare, as they Kill, Rob, and Rape thousands of American Citizens each year.
Both Democrats & Republicans are pandering for the Latino vote by promising Amnesty for the 20 to 30 million of the invading criminals, plus with chain immigration to all their relatives & their relatives in an never ending chain!
We as a nation can survive fools in our White House. What we CANNOT survive is fools both in our Congress and white house. promising a new American, rebuilding the middle class and taking care of the poor while advocating policies that will turn this Nation into an Third World Spanish speaking Nation!
What they refuse to acknowledge or recognize is no single Nation or people is rich enough to lift the 100,s of millions of poor out of poverty. In others words American & American taxpayers cannot bear the cost of becoming the welfare state for Mexico and Latin American. To attempt to do so will only reduce all Americans to poverty equaling what the uneducated invaders have in hundreds of years build, sustained and are now fleeing from in their home countries. The poor and criminals pouring across our Borders have an average of an six grade education with is about on the level of an third grade here. Each head of house hold with less than a high education is a net cost of 20k per year for American taxpayers. So the displaced compassion, flawed logic, or just pandering for votes, endorsed by the politicians is deeply flawed. Failure to close our border or to give Amnesty to the 20 to 30 millions of Illegal Aliens in this country will in the long run, with the Chain Immigration for their relativities and their relativities in an never ending chain will result in adding 100,s of millions poor uneducated citizens to our welfare rolls and in our prisons . Their high school drop out rates exceed 50 percent with a high crime rate and a very high illegitimate birth rate, this is very combination that keeps Mexico & Latin American a cesspool of crime, corruption, poverty & misery!
Maybe the results is what the multinational companies and the rich dream of, an congested, polluted, third world Nation full of poor labors like China, India, Mexico, but I do not believe it is the future most Americans aspire to for their children and grand children!
My country, a potential benefactor and beacon for all the world - is headed right off a cliff and to an third world status!
In my view - - this has all come to pass because the Politicians, the elected and sworn stewards of this country, both Republicans & Democrats have allowed it to happen. Surely they should have known better when they build bridges to nowhere, when they wasted 100,s of billion in pork and sold their votes to the highest bidder.…when they refused to abide by the Constitution against invasion or enforce the very laws they passed, they have disgraced and dishonored their oath of office and brought shame upon our Nation. One way this Nation can start to recover is for the lot of them to be gone from those hallowed halls of Congress and the White House, because most of them have become a house of party-bound Prostitutes paid by the special interests, swirling and partying, amidst the rubble of their own malfeasance - taking this Nation right down in the gutter with them.
If the Politicians with the Citizens support, decide they must do more for the worlds poor then they must find a way like an Marshall plan for Latin American it is far better to spend the 100,s of Billions the Welfare, Schooling, Law Enforcement, etc. Amnesty will cost this Nation on an Marshall plan for Latin American . What they must not be allowed to do, though flawed logic, false compassion, or by criminal intent is to turn this Nation into a Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Poverty, and Misery by continuing the open borders policy and Amnesty for the millions of uneducated peons and criminals pouring across our borders.
As a concerned American that served my Country in time of War as did my Father, my two brothers and my son. I am appalled and very angry at what self severing, stupid/corrupt politicians have done to my country!
“Even if Mexico’s government were to transform overnight into the model of egalitarian democracy, if Mexico’s economy is in the same state, there will still be a lure to crossing into the United States.”
A functional economy and a functional government go hand-in-hand. Dysfunctional economy, dysfunctional government. Vice-versa.
Black Saint said on 8 Jan 2009 at 10:48 am: Flag comment
“We have an arrogant, incompetent, illiterate, and inept fool in the White House the last 8 years….”
Bush has an Ivy league education, a law degree, and has read more books the past year than you have probably read in a decade. I’m not a Bush supporter anymore, but it’s ridiculous that people, largly with no college degree, continue to brand him as illiterate and ignorant. This kind of thinking has lead us to President Obama, a man with equal college credentials to Bush, but who is seen as an intellectual because he is a highly capable speaker and Teleprompter reader.
jfk -
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Black Saint nailed it.
How can we get our elected officials to amend the constitution to set term limits?
“I’m not a Bush supporter anymore, but it’s ridiculous that people, largly with no college degree, continue to brand him as illiterate and ignorant. ”
Do “reckless” and “careless” strike you better?
I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution / Take a bow for the new revolution / Smile and grin at the change all around / Pick up my guitar and play / Just like yesterday / Then I’ll get on my knees and pray / We don’t get fooled again!
Johnson said on 8 Jan 2009 at 11:47 am: Flag comment
Black Saint nailed it.
How can we get our elected officials to amend the constitution to set term limits?
You can’t. They will never give up their plush life-style. Where else could they get a 6 figure paycheck, first class healthcare, virtually unlimited travel first class to anywhere in the world at taxpayers expense, have access to U.S. embassy commissaries and budget officers to pick up their liquor and money in the middle of the night, have planeside hourderves and drinks at their overseas stops (courtesy of the U.S. taxpayers, have reserved parking spaces at BOTH Washington, D.C. airports and not having to wait in line at the airports. In addition, do you think they want to give up their large office staffs and aides? The only way to get them out of office is to VOTE THEM OUT!
Do you remember the newspaper story back in Jimmy “I’ll never lie to yuh” Carter’s presidency when the family flew Air Force One on vacation. It was discovered that lil Amy forgot her eyeglasses and the SS sent another plane to the vacation spot with her glasses. How much did that cost the taxpayers? This is the type of government waste that people are tired of but seems to continue ad nausium.
“I hope it’s no revelation to anyone that immigration occurs everywhere (not just in North America) where there are marked discrepancies in economic activity and/or political freedom (the two often go together) along the border of contiguous nations.”
NoVA,
I would agree with this statement, but as in the case of Europe and Central America the shared borders is not a key driver. If you haven’t done so, I would encourage you to read Mark Steyn’s “America Alone”. A non-secure border in the destination country is. Western Europe is awash in North African and other muslim immigrants, a portion of them illegal aliens. The driver is economic. Cradle-to-grave social programs in these western countries depend on a constand influx of younger workers, paying into the government welfare systems. Due to declining birthrates of native populations, the source of these new workers must be immigrants. All fine in principle. The problem is the shift in demographics is erroding the culture in these countries. There is a religous revival going on in Western Europe….Islam. The Netherlands and Belgium are now Muslim majority countries, with the Scandinavian countries not far behind. THe foundations of their socialized systems of government will be their respective cultural downfalls, because with the immigration comes radical islam. Steyn points out that the process has begun in Canada as well.
Take the same drivers and apply them to the US. Mix in the push to socialize many aspects of our current economy, such as healthcare. Top it off with the fact that the Fed will need gobs of taxpayers to pay down all the bail-out debt, and I am afraid we will hardly recognize our country in 20 years. I smell a big-A Amnesty coming, followed by continued illegal immigration.
Hey Greg: how do you expect the U.S. to get its illegal drugs if there were government reform in Central America?
From Gainesville Times:
Delegate Bob Marshall, Senator Chuck Colgan and Senator George Barker will be hosting the Manassas/Western Town Hall Meeting on January 9, 2008 at 7:00 PM at the Manassas City Council Chambers at the Manassas City Hall located at 9027 Center Street, Manassas, VA 20110. Delegate Jackson Miller will be unable to attend due to his duties as a Manassas City Police Officer but will have a statement read at the event.
The public will be given an opportunity to speak and ask questions of the delegation and there will be a sign up sheet at the event.
[end]
I understand that a similar event in the eastern part of the County drew a total of 2 residents.
Hope to see you all there.
Vigilant 1-
I agree that the way to get term limits is for voters to impose them arbitrarily by voting incumbants out. Only then will lobbyists and special interests loosen their grip on our elected officials.
“Readers of this site need to really ramp up their support for NAFTA, CAFTA, bilateral trade agreements with the Andean countries and comprehensive federal immigration reform. You guys are too reticent to be politically effective on these points.”
NoVA, unfortunately the reality is that, due to the fact that the economic benefits to which you refer have NEVER reached the poor underclass of these nations DUE to the corruption of their governments, all that these economic programs have accomplished is the encouragement of these people to storm our borders. If you want some actual facts and research supporting this check out some of the postings on my blog, if you haven’t already. The benefits quite simply do not get down to the people who most need them…they only serve to enrich the top 10% of these nations, and stimulate the corruption already existing.
And furthermore, since most of the negotiations on these agreements were done secretly, or at best, without public disclosure, it’s not possible for the public to get fully engaged on the issues.
TPWB said, “When you go after business and industry, you’re going after the people who pay for your re-election…”
Is that the answer to BHO’s election?
It is beyond all imagination the problems that establishment of “term limits” would resolve. …but guess what, ain’t gonna happen!
Just like we have too many professional wrestlers, gamblers, and soothsayers, we have too many professional politicians. Think they’ll hand over the reins to those who don’t know the “inside” ropes?
I would argue that “term limits” have always existed. It is by way of an active voting citizenry. The problem is we have, at last count, only about 20% of registered voters exercising their right to vote.
For over 200 years people have fought and died to secure that right. Everyday people around the world fight and die to get it. This seems to be but one of many things they don’t teach in school anymore.
Do not look for the political machine to change its direction. That will be up to us.
Nah, the root cause is that people are irrational and stupid en masse, and the two parties easily explot their fears, religious beliefs, etc. etc.
Given that facet of human nature, i think term limits is worth doing and would be a return towards government by and for citizens.
NoVA Scout said “Readers of this site need to really ramp up their support for NAFTA, CAFTA, bilateral trade agreements with the Andean countries and comprehensive federal immigration reform.”
Illegal alien apologists blame CAFTA and NAFTA for the woes in Mexico, which is why they are illegally coming here. Big bad America has ruined Mexico.
JENA, I am no illegal alien apologist, nor do I blame the United States for the woes in Mexico…I blame our government for the woes HERE. You might want to read my comment more carefully.
AWCheney, that comment wasn’t directed at you. I don’t think that NAFTA or CAFTA are good for America, yet there are those that blame the illegal aliens coming to our country soley on NAFTA.
Sorry.
JENA, NAFTA et al reduce incentives for illegal immigration, they don’t cause it. I’ve not heard it said in any responsible circles that the US has harmed Mexico or Canada through NAFTA. The general consensus is that all three countries have recognized significant economic benefits. AWC points out that , to the extent economic and governmental conditions in trading partners block or distort the distribution of economic benefits, the gains of free trade are diluted for the partner country. Of course, the gains for the US remain very attractive. But, given the theme of the original post, my observation is that corruption has economic and human liberty impacts, stands up pretty solidly I think. It’s very hard to change governmental corruption in a foregin country from the outside, but you can try to even out the economic disparities through trade. AWC, I’m very aware of some of the data you have discussed on your site. It is inarguable that (to use the NAFTA example) all three countries directly involved have differing efficiencies of distributing economic benefits. But that isn’t an argument against trade agreements.
Those concerned with illegal immigration will vociferously back policies that promote a narrowing of economic disparities between Mexico and Central America, on the one hand, and the United States, on the other. Narrowing that gap in economic conditions will do more than a thousand-mile long mine field.
FM: I share some, perhaps many, of your concerns about the long-term economic impacts of the current bail-out mania, but I suspect that the impacts are so negative that they will have little impact on the immigration issue other than to diminish immigration because the United States will be comparatively unattractive to immigrants. And while most of the noise on this site is about illegal immigration at the low-skill end of the work force, the fact remains that the winners in the international economy of the 21st century will be countries that are dazzlingly attractive to immigrants. The US won’t be among those winners if it saddles itself with profligate debt that does not directly stimulate increased industrial productivity.
NoVA Scout said on 8 Jan 2009 at 9:43 pm: Flag comment
JENA, NAFTA et al reduce incentives for illegal immigration, they don’t cause it. I’ve not heard it said in any responsible circles that the US has harmed Mexico or Canada through NAFTA.
The San Diego Union Tribune of January 02, 2003 states differently.
http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/ftaa/503.html
My qualifier was “responsible.”
The linked article, after enumerating a number of benefits from NAFTA, posits that an offsetting entry on the NAFTA balance sheet was that the benefits to US agricultural interests from liberalized trade with Mexico destroyed small plot Mexican farming and created a displaced class of agricultural workers who emigrated illegally to the US. I do not doubt that there is some truth to that. I doubt that US exporters would (or should) give up their gains as a result. There are a lot complicated causes and effects in trade economics. But JENA’s point, to which I was responding, was that a class of people that she describes as “illegal alien apologists” (I’m not sure whether that means illegal aliens who apologize a lot or persons who apologize to illegal aliens) blame liberalized trade agreements for Mexico’s problems. My position is that, whatever those problems (and some of them are quite real) they are not primarily the result of NAFTA, an arrangement that creates offsetting benefits for all the participants.
BothPartiesDoColludeAgainstYouAndMarketToYourFears said on 8 Jan 2009 at 11:47 am: Flag comment
“Do “reckless” and “careless” strike you better?”
I think that these are also unfair adjectives to describe the entire balance of Bush’s two terms. However, my comments were in reference to those who try to depict Bush as uneducated or stupid.
Man Steals ID, Takes Out $787,000 In Loans
The KPHO News (Phoenix), January 8, 2009
http://www.kpho.com/news/18440377/detail.html#-
Phoenix — A Mesa man pleaded guilty Wednesday to taking out more than $787,000 in loans using someone else’s Social Security number, a spokesman from the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office said.
Adan Betanicio Guerrero, 37, used the victim’s Social Security number to purchase two cars on credit and take out thousands of dollars in loans, said Michael Anthony Scerbo from the county attorney’s office.
Scerbo said Mesa police caught Guerrero after he tried to use the stolen Social Security number to purchase a car. The credit union contacted the victim and discovered the identity theft, Scerbo said.
Guerrero, who police say is in the country illegally, was indicted in June 2008. He pleaded guilty to one county of taking identity of another and one count of fraudulent schemes and artifices, both class four felonies.
Driver accused in teen’s death had high blood-alcohol content
By Emily Gersema
The Arizona Republic (Phoenix), January 8, 2009
The driver accused in November of killing a 16-year-old Mesa girl on her way to meet her marching band for the Gilbert Days Parade had a blood-alcohol content of .19 - more than twice the legal limit, according to a Mesa police investigation.
Manuel Contreras-Galdean, 32, was arrested Nov. 15 and charged with manslaughter and aggravated assault in connection with the early morning collision that severely injured and later killed Kelly Tracy, 16, a sophomore at Gilbert’s Highland High School.
Contreras-Galdean has pleaded not guilty to the charges. Police have said Contreras-Galdean told them he has been living in the country illegally for several years, and he was placed on an immigration hold. He is being held at Maricopa County Jail without bond.
. . .
http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/2009/01/08/20090108gr-drunkendriving0109.html
Did anyone make it to that Town Hall meeting? Was there any excitement?
We really need the infrastructure and construction jobs without E-verify so we can put the millions of Illegal Aliens back to work, so they can send money home to support Mexico! The contractors can get paid at union scale, charge the tax payers union scale, hire Illegals at slave wages, pocket the different s, and hit the tax payers for both their wages and the billions in cost to educate their many children, provide medical and welfare.
Sounds like the same old scam, reward the Rich and the invading horde of illegals Aliens and soak the tax payers that have obeyed the laws, paid the taxes and fought the wars and built this Nation!
You would think the Politicians would be content with just outsourcing all the jobs that are possible but No they want to bring in Slave labor ( while ignoring Article IV Section IV of our Constitution against invasion, the rule of Law, and their Oath of office) to take the jobs that cannot be outsourced! To add insult to injury they make the American citizens still working pay billions in extra taxes to educate, provide medical, welfare and jail cells for the invading horde that are taking our jobs and driving down our standard of living! While keeping busy Robbing, Raping and Killing American citizens at an rate that Bin Laden can only dream about!
The Democrats love the millions of Welfare votes. The Republicans love the slave labor for their Pay Masters in the Chamber of Commerce and business. So there is little or no hope for American citizens and the future viability of this nation as we know it.
We can see Sam Huntington was right in his book Clash of Civilizations if we will only look and be rational. But too many are not prepared for logic or rational discourse and resort to hurling racist insults. If we are realistic and look at the havoc caused by the millions invading Hispanics on our communities, culture, crime, economy, welfare and standard of living the only conclusion possible is that no Nation can withstand or assimilate Millions of citizens from another culture! That does not want to assimilate but come here for the jobs and welfare while keeping loyally to their home countries! This Nation is changing to the very same type of culture and society the invading millions have created, built and sustained for 100,s of years and are now fleeing in their own Countries!
One has to only look at Calif. which is basically an Bankrupt state that cannot afford to provide Welfare, Schooling, Medical etc. for millions of Criminals and uneducated peons from Mexico!
The future is an over populated, Spanish speaking third world Nation that is an Cesspool of Corruption, Crime, Poverty and Misery modeled on Mexico!
JFK I think you better educate yourself on Bush. He does not have an Law Degree but has an MBA where he got gentleman C & D,s. Yes he has a Degree only because of his Name and Daddy but the man has been an complete failure at every thing he has ever done not the least as President ( I will admit I was stupid enough to vote for the man). Unfortunately if one has enough money to buy the talent to package them right and good speech writers, we would and could get an Monkey elected And JR. is living proof! Of course, because voters usually have to decide between bad and worse makes the voting task even more difficult!
1.How Long Do We Have? Looks like stage 7 to me!
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
‘A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.’
‘A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.’
‘From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.’
‘The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years’. ‘During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage’
Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:
Number of States won by:
Gore: 19
Bush: 29
Square miles of land won by:
Gore: 580,000
Bush: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million
Bush: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore: 13.2
Bush: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: ‘In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.
Gore’s territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare…Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the (complacency and apathy) phase of Professor Tyler’s definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation’s population already having reached the (governmental dependency)phase.
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.
You probably ought to get out, BS. It sounds pretty hopeless by your reckoning. Where are you planning to go?
Black Saint
Please look up J Olson’s “university profile page”. You will find that Olson has been trying to disengage himself from the rumor that this is his report and calls it, in his own words and in capitals, BOGUS!
Not funny at all, Nova….:(
I attended the Town Hall Meeting last night. The majority of speakers spoke about the problems in Virginia associated with illegal immigration and the need to enact illegal immigration legislation. Also, increasing the penalties for driving without a license from a public safety standpoint.
Good to hear, thanks!
Just trying to show some empathy for BS. Things are looking pretty grim in his 1955 comment. If I were that pessimistic, I’d probably emigrate (but where?) or just throw myself under the Ulm/Stuttgart local, like Herr Merckle in Germany.
All we need to do is wake up, NoVA Scout. This country had better button up and prepare for the coming storm. Too many people, not enough resources. The have-nots are migrating to where they can work, live and take advantage of a beneficial society that they contribute nothing to, have no investment in did nothing to build it. These people are leeches. If they were of good character, they would have created viable democracies at home. California is a great example of this. They should have the good graces to secede.
Johnson: Over the course of several decades of life on earth, including some adult years in the good old days of Communist rule in Eastern Europe, my experience has been that people who flee bad governments are not necessarily people of low character. In fact, the opposite is usually the case.
Conversely, don’t throw your back out taking credit for building this country with your good character. Maybe you did, maybe you didn’t apply your moral and ethical gifts to making this Nation a great nation. But, statistically speaking, there is no evidence that this country is superior to Mexico or Canada because of the moral fiber of its people. Most American citizens have done nothing extraordinary to merit the bounty and freedom of this country - they just happened to be born here. I’m not inclined to give out medals for that. We are the product of a truly remarkable combination of learned, insightful leaders at the time of the foundation of the Country (all dead now), gifts of geography and nature, the divine intervention of Providence in providing a most gifted leader at a most critical moment (Lincoln - alas, also dead now), and the constant replenishing of the American dream by waves of immigrants (your forebears - I presume - and mine) who, by virtue of seeing how bad things can get elsewhere, left those conditions behind and came here.
My contacts with immigrants, legal and illegal, has not shown me anything that would suggest that their “character” is lacking in proportions more dramatic than what I see among the native population of this country. Nor have I deduced that had they stayed behind, conditions in their countries of origin would have been much improved or that democracy would have blossomed liked desert flowers after a downpour. I take it that, by your reasoning, we can blame the vast influx of Cubans of low character for the tenacity of Communist rule in Cuba.
Finally, I, for one, would be most disappointed were California to secede. Its immigrant Governor does a reasonably good job by modern political standards. I would be much less a person (by at least 20 pounds) had I not enjoyed the benefits of its wine, cuisine, and spectacular scenery.
Johnson
This is nothing new. All through history the “have-nots” who’d like to be “have-at-least-somethings” have always migrated “to where they can work,…”
Why did the Irish come, why the Scandinavians, why the Italians, Chinese…? A few came for religious freedom, but most came because they could not survive, simply survive, in their homeland.
Now the North Africans are floating into southern Europe and causing much trouble. The poor from Eastern Europe are trying to make it to the more prosperous Scandinavian countries. Also, Sudanese, for some reason, have more or less taken over one small Swedish town and turn out to be very difficult to handle.
Yes, our fellow Americans to the south of us are causing trouble for the USA, but it’s nothing we can’t handle. After all, we are Americans!
Creating democracies “at home” takes more than being of good character and is easier said than done. Look at our effort in
Iraq, for instance.
NoVA Scout said on 9 Jan 2009 at 9:31 pm: Flag comment
You probably ought to get out, BS. It sounds pretty hopeless by your reckoning. Where are you planning to go?
MEXICO, where else
Speaking of corrupt governments -
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jan/09/bush-regrets-immigration-reforms-werent-approved/
President George W. Bush told a group of Texas reporters Friday that he regretted immigration policies were not reformed while he was in office.
“I’m very disappointed that it didn’t pass,” he said in an interview with correspondents from his home state. “I’m very worried about the message that said, ‘Republicans are anti-immigrant.’”
Bush said he wanted a comprehensive immigration plan “not for political standing or for Latinos, but because it was best for the country,” the Houston Chronicle reported in its online edition Friday.
The outgoing president said that in hindsight he should have pushed his immigration proposal soon after the 2004 election, rather than after partisan squabbling over Social Security began.
In hindset, Bush should have done the opposite of nearly everything he did …
He was a total F-up. Even those Americans not enthused about Barack Obama should be getting ready to celebrate, because the Bush Presidency is nearly at an end. We collectively survived it, but just barely, albeit with thousands of our soldiers dead and more maimed. Except for mismanaging a war that we don’t even collectively know why we’re fighting, overseeing enough deregulation to start a new robber baron age and something near the advent of socialism, inflaming the illegal immigration issue, suing the City of Manassas for the right of illegal aliens to overcrowd while jailing Ramos and Compeon for shooting at a fleeting drug dealer, creating a whole new expensive and highly inefficient cabinet agency (Homeland Security) which costs many billions to do nothing while our borders are in actual fact wide open to terrorists, creating new levels of beauracracy for those who want to teach in schools, overseeing an age where wage disparity rose, and a few other small missteps, he was really something else wan’t he.
It’s almost hard to believe that one individual could do so much damage … but, he did. He was tempermentally unfit for the office.
He grew government, shrunk our private sector, violated the trust of our military, and still to this day has little clue what he did wrong.
Off topic I suppose, but my anger burns brightly.
Anyone that voted for Bush twice should punish themselves by undoing ther voter registration. You are unfit to vote if you voted for that clown twice. The first four years should have made it abundently clear that he was unfit.
Off topic I suppose, but my anger burns brightly.
“Anyone that voted for Bush twice should punish themselves by undoing ther voter registration. You are unfit to vote if you voted for that clown twice. The first four years should have made it abundently clear that he was unfit.”
Well Rick, why don’t you run for office? You seem to have all the answers. I’d be happy to serve as your campaign manager. I’d make sure all your engagements were set up, and that you had plenty of chocolate milk to drink after each speech. I’d even make sure that your hotel rooms were set up like your bedroom in mom’s basement so you didn’t get scared. Of course, you’d have to take off the pj’s and put on some big boy clothes.
Mighty Putty, you have no idea how much of an ass you sound like do you?
He’s laughing his a** off down in his Mom’s basement. His posts appear at a glance to be a textbook example of the psychological property of “projection”.
There’s even more news today about what an abject screw-up Bush has been. He rejected Isreal’s request for help in blowing up Iran’s uranium enrichment plants - 3 times last year - because he’s afraid it would have negative consequences in Iraq! http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/11/iran.israel.nuclear/index.html
Yes Iran is allowed to creep closer to having WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION where as Iraq had none whatsoever circa 2001/2002. Well-played, huh? Well at least we have control and fiancial interest in Iraq’s oil, after all the sacrifice of our troops. Wait - what’s that you say? We DON’T? Ah, well played again Mr. Bush.
Well say what you want about this Presdient but at least he conducted himself with homor in regards to supporting our troops. What’s that? He didn’t get them body armor at a time when they were under attack by IDEs? He sat and watched while Rumsfeld justified this by saying he didn’t want to authorize any overtime at the factories that provide body armor? Wow how disgusting. Well at least Bush didn’t explout the war for political purposes … or leave our borders wide open. By spending billions on the Department of Homeland Security he has tightened our borders and made our nation less vuilnertable to attack. Yes it was a lot of money to spend, but it’s imperative that we secure our food supply and so forth, we can’t have an America where people can just waltz over the border and get jobs working in food processing plants and so forth … that would be just asking for trouble … no President would or could allow such a situation I would hope. None would be that stupid or reckless I hope.
“Makes No Sense At All” as Husker Du once sang. Should be the anthem for the Bush Presidency. Thank God it’s over soon.
“Most American citizens have done nothing extraordinary to merit the bounty and freedom of this country - they just happened to be born here.”
It is comments like that which make it abundantly clear to me why some people believe that good government is something you can install in any country if you just try hard enough.
It doesn’t work that way.
1)The people have to want it.
2)The people have to understand why they want it.
3)The people have to be willing to do the things required to further it.
I think your post may have been misdirected, AWC….:)
I write what I mean and mean what I say freedom. I don’t have to agree with someone’s opinions to believe that they should be treated with some modicum of respect. Mighty Putty does not attack opinions…perhaps he is incapable. He attacks people and, in my opinion, that is disgraceful…there’s far too much of that going around.
How many times have we heard the that illegals are only here to work hard and support their families back home. Using the pretense, then why shouldn’t they stay home and work hard to improve the situation there and stay with their families. If all the hard workers leave then the less motivated must be the ones staying at home and most likely they don’t do anything to improve the situations in their home country, as they are the ones with no motivation.
My advise to those hard working illegals……go home and try to improve YOUR country.
OK then AWC, I certainly didn’t mean to offend….but let’s leave it at this: personally, I submit that your comments apply perfectly well to those of the individual Mighty Putty was mocking.
I find that many liberal morons, such as myself, believe that luck is the primary determinant of whether one is successful or not.
Hard work has nothing to do with it. It is all about luck. If you are lucky enough to be born into the right family, lucky enough to be born in the right country, etc. then you will be successful.
Conversely, if you are not successful then it is not because of anything you did or did not do, it is because of bad luck.
To further analyze this mode of moronic liberal thinking, consider the person who gets pulled over, arrested, and convicted for DUI. A moronic liberal would say that this person had the bad luck to be all of the following:
1)Addicted to alcohol
2)Caught driving while intoxicated (especially after getting away with it many times before; I mean, if you’ve done it 50 times why would your luck suddenly be so bad that you’re caught the 51st time?)
3)Convicted.
That’s a lot of bad luck for one person, but bad luck is something that, once it starts, is hard to stop.
The end result is that this person’s DUI conviction is all the result of bad luck. They did absolutely nothing to do deserve it.
In a similar vein, someone who is born into a poor country has a situation that is simply the result of bad luck. We moronic liberals know for a fact that had that exact same person been lucky enough to be born in the USA, they would end up as CEO of a major corporation someday. Well, if it weren’t for the systemic racism and other roadblocks that they would encounter.
“Well, if it weren’t for the systemic racism and other roadblocks that they would encounter.”
On the other hand, maybe they would be lucky enough to be born the right color.
“…personally, I submit that your comments apply perfectly well to those of the individual Mighty Putty was mocking.”
Why, freedom?…because that individual got pissed off (as I would) and threw it back at the jerk who offered the insulting comment in the first place? I have seldom seen Mighty Putty show up on this site without mocking/insulting/generally being unpleasant toward someone. He ALWAYS takes shots at BPCAU, and I just get a little tired of all the personal attacks around here with no one ever taking the high ground. You all are really a bunch of hypocrites criticizing “the others” for doing it and then, if not participating, encouraging it right here.
By the way, freedom, to respond to your suggestion that we agree to disagree on this…there is no way. I will NEVER agree that personal attacks serve some purpose in a dialogue, or any other expression of opinions.
Correction: It alluded to the suggestion that I accept your premise without responding (just reread the comment). Now, you KNOW that’s not in me.
AWC - I agree with you that the direct personal attacks by Mighty Putty against Both Parties are entirely inappropriate. Mighty Putty always attacks Both Parties - and it is just plain pathetic.
Both Parties is entitled to his opinion - just like I am entitled to mine.
You are correct that people on this site and “the other” site personally attack each other. “The other site” even has people reporting on what we say on this site now, with veiled personal attacks about me and others living in my neighborhood. I know who these persons are even though they hide behiind monikers to do it. They are just like grade-schoolers.
I consider “the other site” truly hypocritical - and I am personally glad that most of them have been banned from this site. Instead of them bashing us here, they do it over there. I believe their bashing far surpasses anything that is done on this site.
I am not condoning personal attacks - but I also believe that this isn’t Kindergarten here and unless a posting is particularly vehement, I am not calling anybody out for doing it. I do enough parenting at home.
50 of Colgan’s El Salvadoran buddies were at the Coverstone 7-11 this AM.
Advocator - did you notify the police?
To AW and DPortM - check some of the past posts of Mr. Bentley and you will see many personal attacks. He changed his identity multiple times to escape the heat of these attacks that he started. Your simpathies are misplaced. I assume you must have a personal relationship with him to defend him like this. Perhaps one of you is his mother, and the said supplier of the chocolate milk?
Hate if you want, but I will “stick” to my mission of 1) getting Rick out of the basement and into his own place; 2) having him forgive daddy and start attending church; and 3) obtain meaningul employment, which will stop the 50-100 posts per day on this site, and single-handedly end the recession. If we can put his energy to work in a real job, he could be the engine that this economy needs right now.
God bless you all. Peace out.
AWCheney said on 10 Jan 2009 at 7:47 pm: Flag comment
“Mighty Putty, you have no idea how much of an ass you sound like do you?”
Praytell, what sound does an ass make?
BTW, how’s the website working out (speaking of making an ass of one’s self)?
“check some of the past posts of Mr. Bentley and you will see many personal attacks. ”
Really? On who? George W Bush and John McCain?
“He changed his identity multiple times to escape the heat of these attacks that he started.”
You harassing me doesn’t equate to “heat” in my mind. But, enough. I’m ignoring you again. Have fun.
DPortM:
Why should I notify the Police? Chuck says they’re all legal!
And we know Chuck is either completely uninformed, suffering from dementia, an illegal alien apologist, or just plain stupid.
I think he’s just plain stupid. He’s a stooge of the interests that put him in office. And those who voted for him are just as stupid.
Mighty Putty, my blog is really none of your business…as is my health, my family situations and whatever other matters have made it impossible for me to keep up with it, particularly in the manner I had intended (namely quality). May I ask…have YOU bothered to try to accomplish anything lately? Oh yes, we wouldn’t know due to your anonymity. And speaking of getting out of “getting out of basements,” have YOU ever actually accomplished anything with YOUR life? Mine’s an open book.
Yeah, personal attacks are fun. It’s neat watching the liberals melt down and resort to name calling and cries of racism.
Really Johnson…and how neat is it to watch conservatives do the same thing, with different terminology?
Can’t we all just get along? Don’t sink to the Anti-site’s level?
BothPartiesDoColludeAgainstYouAndMarketToYourFears said on 12 Jan 2009 at 11:14 am: Flag comment
“check some of the past posts of Mr. Bentley and you will see many personal attacks. ”
Really? On who? George W Bush and John McCain?
“He changed his identity multiple times to escape the heat of these attacks that he started.”
You harassing me doesn’t equate to “heat” in my mind. But, enough. I’m ignoring you again. Have fun.”
AW and DportM aside, anyone who reads this blog knows about your antics Rick. I’m sure Greg could pull up some old threads to prove my point, but he is gainfully employed and it’s really not worth his time.
This is not fun Rick, but someone has to do it. Why are you making it so difficult?
Don’t play the sympathy card AW. You jumped into this one. If you care so much about Rick, you’ll help me drag him out the basement and get him to kick the chocolate milk habit.
Is it just me, or is AW sounding an awful like vintage Dolph?
Well, here it goes…everyone is Dolph, as well as everyone is “Rick.” I’ve seen you throw numerous accusations around, without any foundation. Insofar as “playing the sympathy card” Mighty Putty, I only deal in facts, unlike others. You cast an aspersion, and I responded with facts. I’m well aware that you tend away from those…facts, that is.
AWCheney I have seen your site and I think it is informative. Mighty Putty have you actually read anything one her site?
I tried once GOODLIFE, but fell asleep after a couple of minutes. BTW, if you are getting your information from blogsites, I suggest a library card instead. Even great site’s like AW’s probably aren’t the best place for enlightenment. It’s akin to going to the local pub and listening to the blowhard at the end of the bar spout off about politics and other social news of the day.
Listen carefully AW. Mighty Putty does not throw acusations around. Mighty Putty does not insult others. Mighty Putty only has one mission-to help Rick Bentley. You cannot enable his bad behavior by defending him. This is a 12-step program to reclaim his life; ala Doctor Phil or Richard Simmons. Oh, the humanity!
The fact that you, according to your own words, go to a bar for your enlightenment, Mighty Putty, explains a lot.
Thank you for the kind words GOODLIFE…you obviously are an intelligent and discerning individual.
Sounds like the first meeting of the AW mutual admiration society (two members and counting).
Maybe there is a language barrier, but I don’t think you interpreted my comments correctly. In this analogy, you would actually be the blowhard at the end of the bar. You seem to prove that notion with every comment you make.
I think we are finished here; at least I am. If you want to continue to make vapid comments then please carry on, but you’ll do so without me. I’ve got to get back to doing the business of the American people-saving Rick Bentley.