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Bob Marshall’s Amnesty For Illegal Aliens Bill?

By Greg L | 10 February 2009 | Illegal Aliens, Virginia Politics | 44 Comments

Delegate Bob Marshall, usually a reliable defender of the rule of law, has a curious substitute to HB 2509 coming before the House of Delegates for a third reading today. The substitute grants amnesty to any person ineligible to vote who has voted in a previous election, this shielding illegal aliens and other unauthorized voters from prosecution when they break the law. I have to say I’m pretty surprised.

Some of his constituents might want to ask him about this.

HOUSE BILL NO. 2509
AMENDMENT IN THE NATURE OF A SUBSTITUTE
(Proposed by the House Committee on Privileges and Elections
on February 6, 2009)
(Patron Prior to Substitute–Delegate Marshall, R.G.)

A BILL to amend and reenact §§ 24.2-418, 24.2-643, 24.2-701, and 24.2-706 of the Code of Virginia and to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 24.2-623.1, relating to elections; voter integrity and identification provisions, including posting notices of voting qualifications and penalties at polling places; voter registration applications and proof of citizenship; and in-person and absentee voting procedures and identification requirements.

B. The general registrar shall reject any application for registration that is not accompanied by one of the proofs of citizenship enumerated in subsection A.

C. Notwithstanding subsection B, any person who is registered in Virginia on January 1, 2010, shall be deemed to have provided satisfactory proof of citizenship and shall not be required to submit proof of citizenship so long as the person remains registered in Virginia. (emphasis added)

While this Bill purports to strengthen voter integrity and identification provisions, it has, at Section 24.2-418B a general amnesty for ALL voters registered as of January 1, 2010-EVEN THOSE WHO ARE ILLEGALLY REGISTERED! In fact, if it becomes law, it may result in a rush to register before January 1, 2010, since anyone who unlawfully registers to vote gets a free pass here.

UPDATE:  Delegate Bob Marshall responds in the comments with a more substantial explanation of what is going on here:

If my bill, HB 2509, really were of benefit to illegal’s registering to vote, please explain why the Democrats you regularly take to task for being soft on illegal aliens, uniformly opposed my bill coming out of Committee.

Right now, under current Virginia law, THERE IS NO PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP REQUIRED AS A CONDITION OF REGISTERING TO VOTE. You just sign a statement that you are a citizen, no proof required! With the defeat of my HB 2509, the law cannot be changed until possibly January 1, 2011, adding even more time without requiring proof of citizenship to vote!

Your explanation about my bill, HB 2509, is incorrect and completely inconsistent with my entire public voting record. Why in the world would I do anything to make it possible for illegal’s to vote in Virginia? You published this false claim without asking me for my explanation, and instead you listened to individuals whom you did not want to identify. I think I am entitled to know who my false accusers are.

Two Republicans (Del. Bill Janis and Del. Tim Hugo) spoke for the first time today on the floor of the House of Delegates, against final passage of my bill, characterizing it as “amnesty for illegal’s.” Bill Janis is an attorney and a member of the House Privileges and Elections Committee which heard this bill and neither he nor anyone else ever raised an illegal amnesty concern. When my bill passed in Committee, some of the Democrats, and all of those whom you would consider “soft” on illegal’s, voted against my bill. All the Republicans voted for it.

The language which Delegates Janis and Hugo objected to was the enactment date of January 1, 2010. The only reason that date was in my bill was because the Voter Registrars of numerous localities, indicated they needed adequate time to adjust their forms and procedures to accommodate the new proof of citizenship and other requirements that would be enacted under my bill and I did not want there to be an excuse to defeat the bill on the grounds that it did not allow time for transition.

But I also trusted that the concerns of Delegates Janis and Hugo regarding the enactment date were genuine, so I agreed both in the Republican Caucus and on the floor of the House of Delegates, to allow a Senate amendment, if possible, because my bill was on third reading and could not be amended in the House.

Bill Janis mischaracterized my private conversation with him. I did not agree that the bill allowed for amnesty. I simply reminded him that several years ago we had to grandfather those who had previously applied for a drivers’ licenses and exempted them from having to provide birth certificates and other documents for a new license. This bill was not considered “amnesty” for illegal’s because it actually strengthened driver’s license requirements for the future. You have to start at some point. IT is NOT Practical to expect all 5 million registered voters to start over again.

After I explained my bill, Tim Hugo and Bill Janis continued to describe my bill as “amnesty,” and debate was quickly cut off and the vote taken. The misinformation caused a stampede of no votes from Republicans, resulting in the defeat of the only measure in the House that had been reported to the House floor that could have established proof of citizenship for voter registration. Current Virginia law has no, I repeat no, proof of citizenship to register to vote!

My bill would have also required the posting in the two most prevalent languages of the locality, on the walls of all 2500+ polling places across the Commonwealth, the parts of the Virginia Constitution which clearly spell out that citizenship is required for voting, and that a violation results in criminal penalties including jail time and a $2500 fine.
To reiterate: My bill required proof of Citizenship as a condition to register to vote by submission of a birth certificate, passport, naturalization papers and other federal documents indicating US citizenship.

It also required a government picture ID as a condition of voting, a requirement which is much stronger than present law. It required absentee voters to submit a government ID with a picture to accompany an application for absentee voting. Unfortunately, your readers were not informed of any of this!

I had also sent you my amendment which was successfully added to the House Budget bill indicating that beginning July 1, 2009, Virginia would be required to use E-Verify for all regular prospective employees of the Commonwealth. I had hoped that you would publicize this, but so far I have not seen this posted.

I hope you will let your blog commentators know who gave you the misleading information about my bill because HB 2509 was the ONLY bill from the House of Delegates in this session which could have prevented ILLEGAL aliens from registering to vote. Sadly, for the citizens of Virginia, and the integrity of our voting process, the only bill which placed any roadblock in the way of illegal’s registering to vote is dead because of the actions of certain Delegates and the misinformation that was spread.

Sincerely,

Delegate Bob Marshall

PS You also posted an amendment which I never offered and could only have been obtained by another delegate and passed on to you, because staff has no access to the floor of the House of Delegates where such amendments are kept at the Desk. Who is the secret delegate giving you bad information?

The amendment, which I did not offer but had ready just in case, delayed the effective date of my bill another six months beyond the current fiscal year, because the Director of the Department of Motor Vehicles had sent me a letter claiming my bill had an economic impact of $1.1 million which would have sent the bill back to the Appropriations Committee, clearly an attempt to kill my bill. My bill could not have been killed for lack of money in the current budget if the enactment date was beyond the current fiscal year. After determining that the Director of the DMV had not delivered his letter in his official capacity, there was no need for me to offer this amendment and I withdrew it.

Again, you know me, you know my record. Please check with me if you receive any other rumors about my record.

For the full wording of my bill and its history go to http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?091+sum+HB2509



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44 Comments

  1. Anonymous said on 10 Feb 2009 at 1:56 pm:
    Flag comment

    Am watching the house floor debate right now. It seems many D’s and R’s are having problems with the bill.

  2. Casanova Frankenstein said on 10 Feb 2009 at 2:13 pm:
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    It says that Marshall was the patron prior to substitute. Not sure who did the substituting, but apparently the illegal alien amnesty part is what was inserted. Marshall may not even support his own bill now after that.

  3. cynic said on 10 Feb 2009 at 2:56 pm:
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    Have the same problem here in Maryland with our Legislature. We are a land full of traitors.

    FYI. The Douglas Dispatch of Douglas, Arizona appears to be following the trail of that rancher being sued by those 16 illegals and their supporters - who are nothing more than traitors.

  4. Maureen said on 10 Feb 2009 at 3:03 pm:
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    (HB2509)
    AMENDMENT(S) REJECTED BY THE HOUSE

    DEL. MARSHALL R. [Withdrawn]

    1. Line 335, substitute, after on
    strike
    January
    insert
    July
    02/10/09 House: Pending question ordered
    02/10/09 House: Read third time and defeated by House (3-Y 95-N)

  5. Maureen said on 10 Feb 2009 at 3:03 pm:
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    So we don’t have to worry.

  6. Maureen said on 10 Feb 2009 at 3:10 pm:
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    You need to chastise the rest of them. …………
    HB 2509 Elections; voter integrity and identification provisions.

    02/06/09 House: Reported from Privileges and Elections with substitute (17-Y 5-N)

    ——————————————————————————–

    YEAS–Cole, Putney, Ingram, Hargrove, Jones, Albo, Cosgrove, Frederick, O’Bannon, Bell, Miller, J.H., Landes, Janis, Phillips, Alexander, Joannou, Sickles–17.

    NAYS–Scott, J.M., Brink, Dance, Englin, Morrissey–5.

    ABSTENTIONS–0.

    NOT VOTING–0.

  7. FOIA said on 10 Feb 2009 at 4:31 pm:
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    Interesting the Rs on the committee loved the bill. This is in keeping with other anti-illegal bills, the Rs defeat them in subcommittee and committee. Looks like the illegals best friends in Richmond are the Rs. Must be taking the “new” Corey Stewart’s lead, “…best friend of illegals…”

  8. Billy Bob said on 10 Feb 2009 at 4:56 pm:
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    Corey Stewart is NO friend to illegals, believe me.

  9. NoVA Scout said on 10 Feb 2009 at 10:06 pm:
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    I suggest that the post misunderstands the bill. While we’re talking about this, is there any evidence that illegal immigrants vote in Virginia elections. I would be surprised if that were a statistically significant event.

  10. Pat.Herve said on 10 Feb 2009 at 10:26 pm:
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    They are politicians, they are supposed to sway with the wind. They create a crisis around issues, and then come to the rescue.

  11. US Citizen said on 10 Feb 2009 at 10:31 pm:
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    I’m happy to read Bob Marshall came down on the right side of the legislative misguided missile. Bob is reliable and honest. Of course he has to rub shoulder with MANY scoundrels in the legislature - and they are not all Democrats. . .

    As a society, we are hesitant to use the word traitor - but it seems to describe much of the liberal opposition today. It certainly describes many of the fools in the US Congress - both houses.

  12. Citizen12 said on 10 Feb 2009 at 11:14 pm:
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    - In the 2004 Virginia Senate race, Democrat Jim Webb shaded out George Allen by 7,231 votes. This study estamates 42,000 votes cast by illegal aliens

    http://www.alipac.us/article-print-3618.html

  13. Bob Marshall said on 10 Feb 2009 at 11:34 pm:
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    If my bill, HB 2509, really were of benefit to illegal’s registering to vote, please explain why the Democrats you regularly take to task for being soft on illegal aliens, uniformly opposed my bill coming out of Committee.

    Right now, under current Virginia law, THERE IS NO PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP REQUIRED AS A CONDITION OF REGISTERING TO VOTE. You just sign a statement that you are a citizen, no proof required! With the defeat of my HB 2509, the law cannot be changed until possibly January 1, 2011, adding even more time without requiring proof of citizenship to vote!

    Your explanation about my bill, HB 2509, is incorrect and completely inconsistent with my entire public voting record. Why in the world would I do anything to make it possible for illegal’s to vote in Virginia? You published this false claim without asking me for my explanation, and instead you listened to individuals whom you did not want to identify. I think I am entitled to know who my false accusers are.

    Two Republicans (Del. Bill Janis and Del. Tim Hugo) spoke for the first time today on the floor of the House of Delegates, against final passage of my bill, characterizing it as “amnesty for illegal’s.” Bill Janis is an attorney and a member of the House Privileges and Elections Committee which heard this bill and neither he nor anyone else ever raised an illegal amnesty concern. When my bill passed in Committee, some of the Democrats, and all of those whom you would consider “soft” on illegal’s, voted against my bill. All the Republicans voted for it.

    The language which Delegates Janis and Hugo objected to was the enactment date of January 1, 2010. The only reason that date was in my bill was because the Voter Registrars of numerous localities, indicated they needed adequate time to adjust their forms and procedures to accommodate the new proof of citizenship and other requirements that would be enacted under my bill and I did not want there to be an excuse to defeat the bill on the grounds that it did not allow time for transition.

    But I also trusted that the concerns of Delegates Janis and Hugo regarding the enactment date were genuine, so I agreed both in the Republican Caucus and on the floor of the House of Delegates, to allow a Senate amendment, if possible, because my bill was on third reading and could not be amended in the House.

    Bill Janis mischaracterized my private conversation with him. I did not agree that the bill allowed for amnesty. I simply reminded him that several years ago we had to grandfather those who had previously applied for a drivers’ licenses and exempted them from having to provide birth certificates and other documents for a new license. This bill was not considered “amnesty” for illegal’s because it actually strengthened driver’s license requirements for the future. You have to start at some point. IT is NOT Practical to expect all 5 million registered voters to start over again.

    After I explained my bill, Tim Hugo and Bill Janis continued to describe my bill as “amnesty,” and debate was quickly cut off and the vote taken. The misinformation caused a stampede of no votes from Republicans, resulting in the defeat of the only measure in the House that had been reported to the House floor that could have established proof of citizenship for voter registration. Current Virginia law has no, I repeat no, proof of citizenship to register to vote!

    My bill would have also required the posting in the two most prevalent languages of the locality, on the walls of all 2500+ polling places across the Commonwealth, the parts of the Virginia Constitution which clearly spell out that citizenship is required for voting, and that a violation results in criminal penalties including jail time and a $2500 fine.
    To reiterate: My bill required proof of Citizenship as a condition to register to vote by submission of a birth certificate, passport, naturalization papers and other federal documents indicating US citizenship.

    It also required a government picture ID as a condition of voting, a requirement which is much stronger than present law. It required absentee voters to submit a government ID with a picture to accompany an application for absentee voting. Unfortunately, your readers were not informed of any of this!

    I had also sent you my amendment which was successfully added to the House Budget bill indicating that beginning July 1, 2009, Virginia would be required to use E-Verify for all regular prospective employees of the Commonwealth. I had hoped that you would publicize this, but so far I have not seen this posted.

    I hope you will let your blog commentators know who gave you the misleading information about my bill because HB 2509 was the ONLY bill from the House of Delegates in this session which could have prevented ILLEGAL aliens from registering to vote. Sadly, for the citizens of Virginia, and the integrity of our voting process, the only bill which placed any roadblock in the way of illegal’s registering to vote is dead because of the actions of certain Delegates and the misinformation that was spread.

    Sincerely,

    Delegate Bob Marshall

    PS You also posted an amendment which I never offered and could only have been obtained by another delegate and passed on to you, because staff has no access to the floor of the House of Delegates where such amendments are kept at the Desk. Who is the secret delegate giving you bad information?

    The amendment, which I did not offer but had ready just in case, delayed the effective date of my bill another six months beyond the current fiscal year, because the Director of the Department of Motor Vehicles had sent me a letter claiming my bill had an economic impact of $1.1 million which would have sent the bill back to the Appropriations Committee, clearly an attempt to kill my bill. My bill could not have been killed for lack of money in the current budget if the enactment date was beyond the current fiscal year. After determining that the Director of the DMV had not delivered his letter in his official capacity, there was no need for me to offer this amendment and I withdrew it.

    Again, you know me, you know my record. Please check with me if you receive any other rumors about my record.

    For the full wording of my bill and its history go to http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?091+sum+HB2509

  14. Hmmm... said on 11 Feb 2009 at 8:11 am:
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    What?!? Someone mischaracterizing someone’s position on this blog based on innuendo, insider information, and heresay? Never!

  15. Loudoun Insider said on 11 Feb 2009 at 9:00 am:
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    Greg, I hope you will revise your post to reflect Mr. Marshall’s firsthand testimony here. It looks like someone is trying to set him up for an undeserved backlash - probably fallout from the last convention. Despicable. Bob Marshall deserves better than this.

  16. DPortM said on 11 Feb 2009 at 9:06 am:
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    Thank you, Delegate Marshall, for clarifying your position. It is disappointing that your bill didn’t make it.

    I am glad you haven’t sold out to the pro-illegal alien crowd, or softened your position on illegal immigration. Now let’s get an E-Verify bill through the General Assembly so we can ensure that ONLY legal immigrants and American citizens are being employed in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

  17. Robert L. Duecaster said on 11 Feb 2009 at 9:17 am:
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    Delegate Marshall:

    Thanks for clearing up an unfortunate misunderstanding. Those of us who know you suspected there was a good explanation.

    As the previous poster says, let’s get an E-verify bill through the GA. But make it one that requires ALL employers in the Commonwealth to use that service.

  18. NoVA Scout said on 11 Feb 2009 at 9:52 am:
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    So there we have it. After a while on this site, it begins to look like even the weather is caused by illegal immigration. Janis and Hugo appeared to be trying so hard to find another 2I pinata to pound and were silly enough to do so against a bill that , to the extent it was necessary at all, would have more liekly than not have improved the possibility that no illegals would vote (again, I very much doubt that illegal immigrants voting happens much more than fatal lightning strikes). This continues to be an issue that cuts in half the IQs of everyone who charges into it. Bob Marshall is, quite justifiably, exasperated with this.

  19. BattleCat said on 11 Feb 2009 at 12:31 pm:
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    Delegate Marshall:

    Thank You for your continued service to our communities!

  20. Here we are! said on 11 Feb 2009 at 1:01 pm:
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    I find it hard to believe that after all these years,one only has to sign a paper and they can vote.

    Growing up we learned that as a citizen once we reached the right age ,we could register vote. That was a Citizen of the United States of America.

    What happened,where did we fall from our morals AND our rights as an American Citizen.

    This has got to stop and I mean Illegals do not deserve to vote. If we don’t change this soon we are doomed as a Country. We can not let this happen.

    Where has all of our Representatives been in not protecting us as Citizens.

  21. Rotacovda said on 11 Feb 2009 at 1:02 pm:
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    Nova Scout: Illegal aliens vote. Ask Bob Dornan of CA.

  22. Delegate Tim Hugo said on 11 Feb 2009 at 1:24 pm:
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    As Delegate Marshall noted, the problem was that his bill was at the point in the legislative process where it could not be amended. Indeed, Bob stated that he would remove the amnesty provision — “if possible” — when the bill went through the Senate.

    Two points:
    1. The Senate could have taken his bill and adopted it without amendment. Thus, the offending amnesty provision would have been in the final version of the bill. Many of us did not want to take that risk.

    2. Bob was asking me to vote for a good bill with a horrible amnesty provision in it….on the promise that he would fix it in the Senate. Bob Marshall’s is a man of his word. I trust him. But, despite his best efforts, we still could have been stuck with a bill that we might not be able to fix.

    While we welcome all legal immigrants, I have consistently opposed amnesty provisions and will continue to do so.

    Finally, Bob Marshall is a good man and delegate. With regard to this bill, I believe his actions were inadvertent and look forward to working with him on other bills of importance.

  23. Mom said on 11 Feb 2009 at 1:58 pm:
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    Del. Hugo, got a prescription for that Myopia. Seems to me doing something is far better than doing nothing. I applaud your stand on doctrine at the expense of reality.

  24. bob marshall said on 11 Feb 2009 at 2:59 pm:
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    E-VERIFY PASSES House Appropriations COmmittee_ floor vote THursday, Feb. 12. urge support!

    My budget language reguiring the state of Virginia to use E-Verify for all new hires after July 1 (the beginning of the new fiscal year) passed the House of Delegates budget. I do not think it is in the Senate budget.

    Please urge your delegate to suport it, Thank you. Del. Bob Marshall

    Page 683, beginning of line 19, insert “a.”
    Page 683, after line 21, insert:
    “b. All political subdivisions and state agencies of the Commonwealth of Virginia shall use the E-Verify System operated jointly by the Department of Homeland Security and the Social Security Administration to ascertain the work status of all new employees.”

    Explanation:
    (This amendment requires state agencies, cities, and counties of the Commonwealth of Virginia to ascertain the legal work status of all new employees using the “E-Verify” system operated by the Department of Homeland Security and Social Security Administration.)

  25. DPortM said on 11 Feb 2009 at 3:15 pm:
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    Delegate Marshall - Can we get the bill number please?

    Many thanks!

  26. freedom said on 11 Feb 2009 at 5:32 pm:
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    Thank you, Delegate Marshall…but in all reality, there’s slim chance the liberal democrats who want the Latino vote will let this slide through. :(

  27. freedom said on 11 Feb 2009 at 5:34 pm:
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    …and thank YOU too, Delegate Hugo…please, please work it hard!!!

  28. Citizen12 said on 11 Feb 2009 at 5:49 pm:
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    NoVA Scout said on 11 Feb 2009 at 9:52 am: Flag comment

    ……. (again, I very much doubt that illegal immigrants voting happens much more than fatal lightning strikes).

    **********************************************************

    less than 60 seconds and that theory goes up in smoke….

    Harris County Voter Registrar Paul Bettencourt testified before a congressional committee this summer that in 2005, he identified at least 35 foreign nationals who applied for or received voter registration cards. In fact, since 1992, Harris County officials have canceled 3,742 registered voters for noncitizenship. Most important, Bettencourt has records of noncitizens voting in Harris County.

    Disturbingly, the noncitizens removed from the voter rolls were identified mostly because they refused jury duty by admitting they were not citizens.

    http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/001982.html

    Harris County, Texas — Population -: 4,011,475 (2007)

    In the Harris County Hospital District, according to the Multiple Database Report of December 2003:

    In fiscal year 2003, nearly 12 thousand illegal immigrant inpatients requiring over 40 thousand days of hospitalization and over 305 thousand illegal immigrant outpatients received treatment with total unreimbursed charges (e.g., those not paid for by the patient or covered by insurance) charges exceeding $116 million, a 20% increase over 2002.

    or…………..

    “Last week, the Columbus Dispatch reported that illegal alien Nuradin Abdi—the suspected shopping mall bomb plotter from Somalia—was registered to vote in the battleground state of Ohio by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), a left-wing activist group. Also on the Ohio voting rolls: convicted al Qaeda agent Iyman Faris, who planned to sabotage the Brooklyn Bridge and had entered the country fraudulently from Pakistan on a student visa.[ “Long gone but still registered Ohio’s Election Day rolls include people who couldn’t—and shouldn’t—vote ,October 24, 2004, Jon Craig The Columbus Dispatch”]:”

    http://vdare.com/malkin/illegals_swing_vote.htm

    One cannot discount the voting swing impact of all their relatives, employers and other, anti American partners in crime.

  29. Maureen said on 11 Feb 2009 at 5:51 pm:
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    Call and fax Speaker Howell and tell him Delegate Marshalls amendment needs to pass!
    Delegate William J. Howell (R) - House District 28 Fredericksburg
    (804) 698-1028 Fax- (804) 698-6728

    Also call and fax your Delegate. Use the link below to find your Delegates phone number.
    http://dela.state.va.us/dela/MemBios.nsf/MWebsiteCO?OpenView

    To fax your Delegate use (804) 698-67—and the Delegates house district number. You can find the district number at the link above.

  30. AWCheney said on 11 Feb 2009 at 5:53 pm:
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    Actually freedom, from what I can gather from Delegate Marshall’s explanation above, it would appear that Delegate Hugo’s misunderstanding of the language of the bill which, apparently, was our one chance to reform voter registration (which is BADLY needed), led directly to its failure in the House. A “thank you” to Delegate Hugo just doesn’t come to mind for me right at the moment.

  31. Pat.Herve said on 11 Feb 2009 at 6:14 pm:
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    freedom,

    the “a stampede of no votes from Republicans” is what Bob Marshal mentioned, and somehow, it is the liberal democrats who are at fault.

    I just love your logic.

  32. cynic said on 11 Feb 2009 at 8:23 pm:
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    Rotacovda, you have that one right. As I understand it, Bob Dornan lost that election because of a significant illegal alien vote. And, if one could conduct a honest investigation, I am sure we could find a few other places where substantial numbers of illegals voted. So, what would the outcome have been in these election without the illegal votes of the illegal aliens?

    The next step on this road to “perfection” will be to take away the right to vote from the natural born citizens.

  33. Bob Marshall said on 11 Feb 2009 at 10:39 pm:
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    The Virginia Budget bill from the House of Delegates is up for voting Thursday. I think it is HB 1600 with my e-verify amendment on it.

    Del. Bob Marshall

    PS I used to work for Congressman Bob Dornan, so did my wife.

  34. Maureen said on 11 Feb 2009 at 10:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    The actual amendment number for Delegate Marshall’s amendment is
    4-6.05. This falls within HB 1600, which is all of the budget amendments together.

  35. NoVA Scout said on 11 Feb 2009 at 11:15 pm:
    Flag comment

    There are very few issues on which I would go to Bob Dornan for information. However, if any of you have good data on how many illegal aliens are voting in Virginia, I’ll take a hard look at it. I don’t think it has ever been much of an issue here. I can be convinced to the contrary by good research. I’m not aware of anything that indicates that any election in VA has ever been decided by an influx of illegal alien voters. That having been said, I have no problem with controls to prevent ineligible voters from voting. My point was that the pols are so bent on reaping anti 2I votes that they even sabotage bills that, while perhaps addressing non-2I issues, would have had the beneficial bi-product of protecting against non-citizen voters.

  36. Anon said on 12 Feb 2009 at 1:06 am:
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    Citizen12, NO non-citizen should vote. But how does what you include above from Harris County indicate it was illegal aliens? It said foreign nationals. There are millions of non-citizen legal residents in this country. Where in the article does it say that all or even most of the foreign nationals who have tried to vote there were illegally in the country? And how does that single case relate here to Virginia? You haven’t done anything to disprove NovaScout’s argument that this phenomenon is rare. Wow 35 in 2005, some of whom may or may not have been illegal. Wow that’s an electoral force to reckon with.

  37. Rotacovda said on 12 Feb 2009 at 9:15 am:
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    NovaScout:

    You’re convinced one way, many of us are convinced in another way. As you well know, there’s no such thing as “good research” in such matters. The fact remains that there are forces within this country that are bent on sabotaging it, any way possible. The ballot box is one method to sabotage it, along with boxcutters and ANFO bombs.

    But your point is well taken.

  38. AWCheney said on 12 Feb 2009 at 9:52 am:
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    NoVA, it’s not just illegal aliens…it’s LEGAL immigrants who are being misinformed that they can register to vote. They are innocently following the instructions of “sign here”…just as they did on mortgages that they couldn’t afford, convinced by people they trusted.

  39. Citizen12 said on 12 Feb 2009 at 9:57 am:
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    Anon,
    In Harris County as well as other places these people do not register as illegal aliens. The 35 were the ones who identified themselves when refusing to sit for jury duty. Foreign National, noncitizen or illegal alien, call them what you want but none are legally qualified to vote yet still do.

    In equating the number discoverd compared to the whole I would ask:

    The fact the less than 21% of property crimes are solved in Prince William County negate the other 79% that have occured?

    In reference to NovaScout’s argument:

    “(again, I very much doubt that illegal immigrants voting happens much more than fatal lightning strikes)”

    In 2006, there were 47 lightning fatalities, 9 more than the 2005 total of 38.

    http://weather.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=weather&cdn=education&tm=19&gps=268_512_1276_553&f=00&su=p897.4.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&st=16&zu=http%3A//www.nws.noaa.gov/om/hazstats/light06.pdf

    Compare that number to the estimates indicated in the previous post:

    Citizen12 said on 10 Feb 2009 at 11:14 pm: Flag comment

    - In the 2004 Virginia Senate race, Democrat Jim Webb shaded out George Allen by 7,231 votes. This study estimates 42,000 votes cast by illegal aliens

    http://www.alipac.us/article-print-3618.html

    Voter fraud is real, and the evidence is there.

  40. citizenofmanassas said on 12 Feb 2009 at 10:38 pm:
    Flag comment

    NOVA,

    Illegals are not supposed to be in the Country, but they are. Illegals are not supposed to hold jobs in America but they do. If even one illegal votes in an election that is one too many.

  41. NoVA Scout said on 13 Feb 2009 at 7:26 am:
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    C12- you know, I looked at that alipac link when it went up earlier in the thread and was very disappointed. Even a child would not consider that a “Study” in any commonly understood sense of the word. It took some general population estimates, particularly for hispanics, and extrapolated from the general numbers to conclusions about illegals. (e.g., if hispanic voter registration increases by x in a certain area, a certain percentage of those will be illegals etc.). There may have been some more adult work behind it, but the article in the link was not a “study” by any means, and there was no way to link behind it to actual data. I do not reject the idea that in certain areas there may be a higher incidence of ineligible voting than others.

    But, if they do, the issue is integrity of the voter registration process, something that Marshall was trying to promote and people here were hopping all over him for. While I’m all for measures that make it easier for every eligible voter to vote, I probably am on the same page with a lot of folks here who worry that measures like motor/voter do not focus adequately on confirming eligibility in the registration process. I also worry about ACORN-type activity that puts the registration system at the mercy of activist groups that have an ideological fervor uninhibited by respect for the integrity of the voter rolls. But these are issues that can be effectively addressed without reference to illegal immigrants, who, if they are voting in statistically significant numbers, can be screened out by the same measures that screen out convicted felons and dead people.

    CoM - so what? My position of being opposed to illegal immigration is well known and I’m just as much against the one incremental crime, ID theft, voter fraud, DUI committed by someone who shouldn’t be here as you are. The issue is what one does about it. One uses different methods to address a problem involving millions than one does to address a problem involving tens.

  42. citizenofmanassas said on 14 Feb 2009 at 8:00 am:
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    Nova,

    The problem we have now is we did not take care of the issue when we only had tens of illegals

  43. NoVA Scout said on 14 Feb 2009 at 8:28 am:
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    We certainly can agree on that. I blame Congress and a string of Presidents for refusing to address this intelligently and consistently over time. After the 1986 revisions, the issue should have been re-visited comprehensively every year or two.

  44. citizenofmanassas said on 14 Feb 2009 at 6:17 pm:
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    Nova,

    Agree. Now the only solution is to go full speed and deport as many as possible without stopping.

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