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“You Lie!”

By Greg L | 10 September 2009 | National Politics, Illegal Aliens, US Congress | 64 Comments

Representative Joe Wilson had the guts to shout out to Barry “Dear Leader” Obama that he was lying to the American People, a refreshing departure from the conventional decorum of a joint session of Congress that would have otherwise allowed Obama’s steady stream of untruths and namecalling to go unchallenged.  The Associated Press decided to fact-check Obama’s speech, and sure enough, Joe Wilson was right.  Will folks like Senator John McCain now be calling on Obama to apologize to us?  Let’s just hold our breath on that one, shall we?

OBAMA: “Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.”

THE FACTS: That’s correct, as far as it goes. But neither can the plan guarantee that people can keep their current coverage. Employers sponsor coverage for most families, and they’d be free to change their health plans in ways that workers may not like, or drop insurance altogether. The Congressional Budget Office analyzed the health care bill written by House Democrats and said that by 2016 some 3 million people who now have employer-based care would lose it because their employers would decide to stop offering it.

In the past Obama repeatedly said, “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period.” Now he’s stopping short of that unconditional guarantee by saying nothing in the plan “requires” any change.

AP allows Obama to mostly wriggle by on the claim that ‘Illegals won’t get coverage,’ the claim that inspired Joe Wilson to call Obama a liar, but they do make note of the huge loophole being built into the proposals that have been made public so far.

The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn’t get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.

That loophole is the gaping chasm through which illegals will actually be able to obtain taxpayer-funded health insurance coverage.  When Republicans tried to close this by adding enforcement provisions to the bills, Democrats voted it down on a straight party-line vote at the urging of the White House.  It’s not a matter of Democrats simply not being aware that they’re crafting a back-door means of providing the privileges of citizenship to illegal aliens, it’s a matter of Democrats knowingly defending this back-door when Republicans expose it and try to eliminate it.

Joe Wilson was right, and it’s not he that owes an apology, it’s Dear Leader Obama.

H/T: Two Conservatives and Patriot Room.

UPDATE: Tim Boyer weighs in as well with a citation from the legislation that proves the lie:

Congressman Wilson is now under fire for daring to break protocol by calling the POTUS a liar;
Problem is, he is right, according the language of the bill; I give you the following

Sec. 152, Pg. 50-51 - HC will be provided to ALL NON-US citizens.



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64 Comments

  1. The Patriot (Got E-Verify???) said on 10 Sep 2009 at 10:48 am:
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    Can someone please tell me what specific statement made by Joe Wilson was not true? Liberals get to answer first please.

  2. Pat.Herve said on 10 Sep 2009 at 11:19 am:
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    and is John McCain a liar also - he has come out and said the same statement - that the Healthcare reform act does not provide benefits for illegal immigrants. http://vodpod.com/watch/2173517-video-mccain-reacts-to-presidents-speech Is McCain a liar also??

    and McCain also said that the comment was totally disrespectful. How can anyone expect to work together when they behave like that.

  3. The Patriot (Got E-Verify???) said on 10 Sep 2009 at 11:22 am:
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    If anyone knows that there is a gaping loophole that prevents the verification of whether or not someone is legal vice illegal….yes…they would be lying through omission of facts.

  4. The Patriot (Got E-Verify???) said on 10 Sep 2009 at 11:25 am:
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    Pat…here is a question for you….if Obama was asked whether or not a provision existed in the bill that specifically stated that all people would be checked for legal status….what would he have said?

  5. The Patriot (Got E-Verify???) said on 10 Sep 2009 at 11:33 am:
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rRE5UK6NQU
    Nice video of a Marine vet schooling a congressman on healthcare.

  6. Pat.Herve said on 10 Sep 2009 at 1:09 pm:
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    Patriot - most American citizens do not have any proof that they are in fact a citizen.

  7. Anonymous said on 10 Sep 2009 at 1:18 pm:
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    The Patriot said:
    Can someone please tell me what specific statement made by Joe Wilson was not true? Liberals get to answer first please.

    It is called Respect the Office not the Man

  8. Fran Kendrick said on 10 Sep 2009 at 1:22 pm:
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    Are you kidding me, Pat.Herve?? Most American citizens?? Where do come up
    with this information?

  9. smurf said on 10 Sep 2009 at 1:51 pm:
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    the deal as I understand it is this, and please tell me if I’m wrong:

    1. Illegals currently get the bulk of their care through the ER which has to treat patients, no matter what and they dont ask for verification of citizenship

    2. Republicans want such verification, the demoncrats dont

    3. Illegals will continue to get health care through the ER regardless of the bill passed, regardless of anything in fact since the ER’s dont turn people away, dont know if they ever can.

    4. what we are talking about here is follow on care, for free, provided by the government. I’m not sure if they get that now or not. They shouldnt because we pay for it.

    what i would like to see is ER’s after triage evaluate patient and refer to outside care i.e. doctors office if they cant prove they have insurance (and are not dying of course). This would require verification of citizenship and insurance of course. Maybe some national insurance card that everyone over the age of 18 (and is a citizen) must have to gain access to the ER? Not sure about that one, but maybe an idea.

    sorry for the rant…I think the congressman was rude but he was right.

  10. Not SPLC said on 10 Sep 2009 at 2:23 pm:
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    Joe Wilson is my new hero.

    Why is it okay for the Preident of the United States to go on national T.V. and call everyone that doesn’t agree with him a liar? The President has been very disrepectful to many American citizens even calling them names. Wilson did what alot of others were wishing to do. You know the old saying,”whats good for the goose…….?”

    And Pat.Herve not too many people give a s@#* what McCain thinks. Also I have NO problem proving I’m an American citizen.

  11. citizenofmanassas said on 10 Sep 2009 at 2:34 pm:
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    Anon,

    Where was the respect in 2005 when the Dems boored and Heckled Bush during his State of the Union address?

  12. Tillie said on 10 Sep 2009 at 2:39 pm:
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    Several of the attending replublicans acted worse than all the students at Wakefield who heard Obama the day before. The young man who was sleeping, behaved better than the oafs last night.

    Fortunately, I didn’t see or hear any female rudes!

  13. Pat.Herve said on 10 Sep 2009 at 3:20 pm:
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    Fran,

    what document do you have that proves you are an US Citizen?

  14. VAC said on 10 Sep 2009 at 4:45 pm:
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    I absolutely disagree with everything Obama and most of the Democratic party does and thinks, but I would never interrupt the President. This was a poor image to place on those against ObamaCare, and he is an embarassment to his constituents. Don’t even dare mention how the Democrats treated Bush, it is entirely irrelevent. We cannot justify our actions by poor character of others, this behavior will destroy a country. We’re not there yet, so lets not perpetuate it.

  15. Just Watching said on 10 Sep 2009 at 4:53 pm:
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    PAT, It is called a birth certificate, you usually need one when getting job, to be president, a license etc.. What planet are you from?
    I think Joe was fed up with the BS like most Americans.

  16. Anon35 said on 10 Sep 2009 at 5:00 pm:
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    Pat -
    Are you on drugs?????
    Wilson is my new hero as well! Someone has the gonads to tell the community leader he’s full of crap.
    You ask how can anyone get along when they act like Wilson? How can ANYONE get along when the POTUS himself bashed the Republicans at everyone opportunity last night?????????????
    Go ahead and TRY to answer that one!
    Wilson had better NOT apologize anymore! He said it, it’s done.
    I DO HOWEVER expect an apology from the community leader for his extremely rude behavior last night toward the republicans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pat - I think you ARE on drugs!
    UFB!

  17. Lake Ridge said on 10 Sep 2009 at 5:33 pm:
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    There is very little mention of health care for illegal immigrants in this bill, and in fact, it basically maintains the status quo. There are laws on the books presently that require hospitals to treat severely ill people who arrive at the hospital, regardless of immigration status. There is no mention of changing this. Is this what you people are referring to? The “good Samaritan” laws that have been in place for many, many decades?

    In fact the only mention of illegal immigrants in over 1000 pages, is regarding the”affordability credits.” These are tax credits for people of modest means need to buy health insurance. The credits would help them buy insurance on a national health insurance exchange. The bill specifically says that people in the United States illegally are NOT eligible for tax credits. So in essence, if anything, this bill is placing further restrictions on health care for illegals. This by the way, is on Page 132, section 242.

    So besides hearing it from Rush and Fox News, where exactly in the bill is there an expansion of health care benefits for illegals?

  18. chameleon said on 10 Sep 2009 at 5:40 pm:
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    lake ridge they could make this rock solid by making it mandatory to provide proof of citizenship before providing medical services (with exception of emergency services) to people. But, the demoncrats refuse to put this in any bill.

    That would solve everything and make people more comfortable.

    I just wish the doc’s at the hospital turned people away when they show up with non life threatening injuries (who know, maybe they do I’m not sure). I’ve seen an awful lot of “alleged” illegals going there for routine care (like the cold, etc).

    wouldnt it awesome if they could round up these invaders like sheriff joe does in arizona? I would love to see them carted out in droves, would bring a smile to my face for sure.

  19. Lake Ridge said on 10 Sep 2009 at 5:46 pm:
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    I’m looking for how this new bill will expand health care benefits for illegal immigrants. All I’m seeing is a bill that doesn’t overturn laws that have been in the books for years.

  20. freedom said on 10 Sep 2009 at 5:55 pm:
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    Well Lake Ridge, do you find ANY kind of “exception,” preventing health care benefits for illegal immigrants? Nope! Numerous amendments to exclude health care benefits to illegal immigrants (with exception of emergency care) have been proposed, but all have been rejected! Just why do you suppose those amendments have been rejected? Duhhhhhhhh!!

  21. Johnson said on 10 Sep 2009 at 6:17 pm:
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    Smurf-
    Is there some reason that ER’s can’t fingerprint and photograph everyone that receives free care? Then, with that database, if they ever apply for a green card or citizenship, they will have to satisfy all outstanding balances. Isn’t that the American way, paying your bills?

  22. Pat.Herve said on 10 Sep 2009 at 6:23 pm:
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    I can go get a birth certificate for a person (not me) right now - it does not prove citizenship. Even your foot print on it looks different from your current foot print. Do you carry your birth certificate with you currently? We hear the defense that employers cannot tell forged documents, what is an ER clerk going to do.

  23. Just Watching said on 10 Sep 2009 at 7:05 pm:
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    Maybe you can get the president one.

  24. chicko said on 10 Sep 2009 at 7:19 pm:
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    thats a pretty good idea about providing biometric data, having hospital personnel enter data like that into a federal database may be questionable..not sure they would do that but it’s a damn good idea.

  25. Tillie said on 10 Sep 2009 at 7:35 pm:
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    johnson

    Would you care to be the one who takes pictures of people brought into the emergency room?

  26. Dittyman8 said on 10 Sep 2009 at 7:59 pm:
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    Pat.Herve:

    - My birth certificate certifies that I was born in the US, therefore proving my citizenship under the Consitution. I know people can gte fake ones, but that’s illegal. Besides, I have the city government of my hometown to verify the location of my birth since it retains a copy.

    - My passport proves that I’m a citizen. I had to send in an application in which I had to state that I am a citizen under penalty of law if I was lying. I also had to provide my SSN, date and location of birth. Since I travel a lot, I carry it with me in my laptop bag.

    - My military ID which states that I’m a retired Navy officer. In order for me to become a Navy officer, I had to prove that I was a US citizen. By the way, my original commission was signed by James Webb (when he was the Secretary of the Navy). If that’s not good enough for you, take it up with him. I carry that in my wallet since I need it to enter most military facilities or use my military previliges like medical care.

    Yes, you can go on and say that you can forge any document, but all those activities are illegal. Society needs to operate on trust at some level. However, one needs to trust but verify (to paraphrase President Reagan.)

  27. oh by the way said on 10 Sep 2009 at 8:17 pm:
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    even a washington post editorial talked about the backdoor way this healthcare proposal funds abortions with your money . . .

  28. Love the U.S.A. said on 10 Sep 2009 at 8:35 pm:
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    I found this on an earlier post and checked it out. Guess what it’s true. But since there are some people that believe the “Almighty One” would never lie to the American people, I took the liberty of cutting and pasting it here. Thanks Not SPLC.

    P.50/Sec.152: Healthcare will be provided to ALL non US citizens,
    illegal or otherwise.

    P.91/lines 4-7: Government mandates linguistic appropriate services.
    (Translation - illegal aliens).

    P.170/lines 1-3: Any non-resident alien is exempt from individual taxes
    (Americans will pay).

    And there is NO VERIFICATION procedure in this bill. Most Americans are pretty smart and see right through all of this garbage.

    Why should I have to pay for “fat” people who have diabetes? Being fat is a choice! As is smoking and drug use and drinking. The medical problems associated with these life style choices should not have to be paid by those of us that take care of ourselves.

    Obama forcing people to have health insurance? I’m not so sure that this is even legal.

  29. Pat.Herve said on 10 Sep 2009 at 9:16 pm:
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    Dittyman,

    Glad to hear that you have a Passport - most US Citizens do not have a US Passport.

  30. Lake Ridge said on 10 Sep 2009 at 9:24 pm:
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    Love the USA - The issue here is health care for illegals… your assertion — P.50/Sec.152: Healthcare will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise — is blatantly false. This section prohibits insurance companies from discriminating against persons when issuing coverage, and has nothing to do with government subsidized coverage to illegal immigrants. The bill explicitly states that no Federal payments will be used for affordability credits for illegal immigrants.

  31. sahdman said on 10 Sep 2009 at 9:42 pm:
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    I am sure ACORN will find loopholes in the health care bill. Free health care and abortions for all. What a country.

  32. citizenofmanassas said on 10 Sep 2009 at 9:59 pm:
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    Lake Ridge,

    There were two amendments the Dems voted down that would have specifically denied illegals coverage under the bill. What you posted is correct, but the language is still very vague.

    It’s the same with abortion. The supporters of the health care bill say there is nothing in the bill that talks directly about abortion, and say that is why it won’t cover abortion. Yet, because abortion is viewed just as a medical procedure, it’s clear the bill will cover the cost of abortion.

    And of course illegals are not supposed to be in the Country either, but they are.

  33. Slick said on 10 Sep 2009 at 10:53 pm:
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    Sahdman, ACORN find loopholes???? THEY WROTE THE BILL!!!!

  34. Anon35 said on 10 Sep 2009 at 11:19 pm:
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    Tillie said on 10 Sep 2009 at 7:35 pm:

    I don’t know about Johnson - but I’d be HAPPY to!!!!!!!!!!!!

  35. Anonymous said on 10 Sep 2009 at 11:31 pm:
    Flag comment

    Lake Ridge said on 10 Sep 2009 at 5:33 pm: Flag comment
    The bill specifically says that people in the United States illegally are NOT eligible for tax credits.

    That is correct. However, there is nothing in the bill that states people will be checked to ensure no illegals will qualify. The Republicans offered an ammendment to the house bill which would require that anyone applying would be checked for citizenship. The Democrats voted it out by 26-14. In other workds, the Dems do not want any one checking on citizenship. They might catch Obamarama’s illegal alien auntie living on the public dole in Boston. She has been ordered to leave the country at least on one occasion by the government but she is still here. I wonder why/how?

  36. Anonymous said on 10 Sep 2009 at 11:39 pm:
    Flag comment

    Anon35 said on 10 Sep 2009 at 11:19 pm: Flag comment

    Tillie said on 10 Sep 2009 at 7:35 pm:

    I don’t know about Johnson - but I’d be HAPPY to!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And is would give me great pleasure to assist you in that undertaking. I would do it gladly without pay.

  37. DPortM said on 11 Sep 2009 at 5:32 am:
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    Yes, McCain is a liar too!

    You can donate to Joe Wilson’s campaign by visiting the following link:

    http://www.marklevinshow.com/Article.asp?id=1494688&spid=32364

  38. Anon35 said on 11 Sep 2009 at 7:23 am:
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    I tried to send Joe Wilson a (positive) message the evening of the speech and couldn’t get onto his website due to high traffic. I’m sure it was all positive emails going to him…from people like me who wanted to say “atta boy”!

  39. A PW County Resident said on 11 Sep 2009 at 7:23 am:
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    Pat.Herve–

    just a question. You seem to be passionate about the issue of proving citizenship. From your perspective, why is is objectionable for the law to require a verification?

  40. A PW County Resident said on 11 Sep 2009 at 7:26 am:
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    After all, the issue is not during emergency room care, it is about getting funding from the US Government, which is usually not done just coming in from the street in an emergency. It is to get a subsidy.

  41. Pat.Herve said on 11 Sep 2009 at 8:15 am:
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    I am passionate about it because the only document you can get that shows citizenship is a US Passport. Most of the US Population does not have a passport (less than 20%).

    I am against a law that is not enforceable in real life - it will become meaningless - if you go to a hospital, how are they to insure that you are a citizen - birth certificate does not prove it - a drivers license does not - a ss card does not, so do not create a law that is basically unenforceable, it does not make any sense. Birth Certificates and drivers licenses are not consistant across states - look at Real ID, it is still not enacted.

    Now, phase in something that proves citizenship, that can be easily validated, and I am all for it - imagine the cost to the health industry to validate citizenship currently - talk about an unfunded mandate.

  42. No1UKnow said on 11 Sep 2009 at 8:19 am:
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    VAC:

    This was a poor image to place on those against ObamaCare, and he is an embarassment to his constituents. Don’t even dare mention how the Democrats treated Bush, it is entirely irrelevent. We cannot justify our actions by poor character of others, this behavior will destroy a country.

    The first sentence contradicts the second and third. So, you can judge Republicans by Wilson, but don’t dare do it for anyone who criticized Bush???

    Please reread and consider whether or not everyone’s opinions are equal. If not, no one’s should count.

  43. A PW County Resident said on 11 Sep 2009 at 8:31 am:
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    But, Pat.Herve, the issue in the bill about persons who should not be in the country is not about emergency or hospital care, as that is already the subject of previous laws.

    It is about getting financial assistance from the US government to buy insurance. So people put in amendments designed to establish means of determining that people don’t get tax credits which the bill said should not happen. It was to make the law enforceable, which you seem to favor. It was those amendments that were defeated.

    That is why I asked the question because I did not understand your opposition to some requirement to prove that you should be in this country before you get direct US government funding for the insurance.

    It sure doesn’t sound unreasonable to me.

  44. The Patriot (Got E-Verify???) said on 11 Sep 2009 at 8:34 am:
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    ALERT ALERT ALERT
    http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/14583
    “Though we live in an era when all undesirable facts are often blindly labeled “conspiracy theories” by political operatives with an agenda at risk, a very real conspiracy unfolds every now and then.”

    This article is very very interesting. The facts presented need to be looked into. What do you think?

  45. Former Officer said on 11 Sep 2009 at 8:51 am:
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    For those claiming Joe is a hero to them you should be ashamed. I voted for McCain and am a strong republican. But the behavior displayed by Joe the other night was deplorable. Had the role been reversed and McCain was the one up there giving the speech you’d be in a major uproar. Joe can disagree all he wants and he should stand and fight for what he believes in. But that was neither the place nor time. His apology was necessary and required.

  46. The Patriot (Got E-Verify???) said on 11 Sep 2009 at 8:53 am:
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    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/53814
    “Obama Won’t Give Federal Insurance Benefits to Illegal Aliens, He’ll Make Them Legal First”
    This is why “illegals” won’t be receiving healthcare…..Obama plans on making them legal via amnesty/pathway to citizenship prior to the healthcare plan being implemented. We MUST stop amnesty/pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens!

  47. AnonII said on 11 Sep 2009 at 9:01 am:
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    Pat Herve is right on. What do you have to prove you are a citizen of the US.

    Just Watching-a birth certificate is not enough to prove legal presence. Ask someone who has been mugged and lost all their id. A birth certificate and an original social security card are not enough. Ask someone knows.

  48. The Patriot (Got E-Verify???) said on 11 Sep 2009 at 9:08 am:
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    The statement “a birth certificate is not enough to prove legal presence. Ask someone who has been mugged and lost all their id. A birth certificate and an original social security card are not enough” is THE USUAL TERRIBLE LOGIC LIBERALS LIKE TO USE!

    Just as bad as:
    People who are not illegal aliens commit crimes too. Therefore, what’s the point of cracking down on illegal aliens…(TERRIBLE LOGIC)

  49. Greg L said on 11 Sep 2009 at 9:21 am:
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    From Americans for Tax Reform, Obama’s top five tax fibs:

    1. Middle class tax hikes: “The middle class will realize greater [health] security, not higher taxes.”

    FACT: This would be a big departure from the House bill and the Baucus draft. The House bill has four tax increases on families making less than $250,000. President Obama himself endorsed another when he called for an individual mandate with a tax penalty. Earlier this week, he floated the idea of a “soda tax.” The Baucus draft, like the House bill, contains a new tax on over-the-counter medicines purchased with an FSA or HSA

    2. Individual mandate tax: “Under my plan, individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance.”

    FACT: What the President is not saying is that the “stick” forcing individuals to do this will be a tax increase. In the House bill, the tax penalty would be 2.5 percent of income. Under the Baucus draft, the tax would range from $750 to $3,800, based on family size and income. Either way, it’s a new tax.

    3. Deficit-neutral is not tax-neutral: “I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits—either now, or in the future. Period.”

    FACT: All “deficit-neutral” means is that taxes will go up at least as much as spending goes up. Under any version of government healthcare, taxes needed to make the plans deficit-neutral would easily exceed $200 billion per year once the plans are fully phased in, according to CBO estimates.

    4. Tax code makes healthcare more expensive: “We spend one-and-a-half times more per person on health care than any other country, but we aren’t any healthier for it. This is one of the reasons that insurance premiums have gone up three times faster than wages.”

    FACT: One of the reasons healthcare inflation is 8 percent a year, while regular inflation is 3 percent a year, is because of the tax code. The tax code prevents most individuals from buying health insurance with pre-tax dollars. Only when insurance is obtained through one’s job or the government is there a tax benefit. There’s also almost no tax benefit to paying for medical expenses out of pocket. These combine to make people think that someone else—not they—are paying for their health care, which drives up the cost.

    5. Tax cuts don’t “cost” money: “The plan I’m proposing will cost around $900 billion over ten years –less than the tax cuts for the wealthiest few Americans that Congress passed at the beginning of the previous administration.”

    To make an obvious point, taxes are not the government’s money. They are money taken by force of law from the American people. To cut taxes doesn’t “cost” any family anything. In fact, it saves them money. When taxes are raised to increase government spending, it does cost money for families.

  50. Pat.Herve said on 11 Sep 2009 at 9:34 am:
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    Patriot - we cannot agree on a common drivers license across 50 states, never mind birth certificates in the same county.

    Do you need the long form, the vault copy - my latest Birth Cert does not even have a raised seal!

    There was no provision about how citizenship is to be determined - there is no funding for it. How much money is that going to take away from healthcare??

    Do not legislate something that is totally not enforceable.

    I am all for the illegal immigrant being deported, and being denied services - but HOW? and what funding?? Will insurance companies have to create local offices for you to go in and prove citizenship??

    I can imagine that the insurance industry is Greatly Lobbying that there be no enforcement.

  51. Sanford Horn said on 11 Sep 2009 at 12:35 pm:
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    Greg, spot on, so I’ve got nothing to add - for once!

    Naturally, I can’t let all this space go to waste, so — Congressman Wilson apologized for interrupting Obummer, not for what he said. What he said was dead on target, and more’s the pity, as this administration needs a refresher in the CONSTITUTION, assuming they have ever read it in the first place.

    I’m disgusted. (I know, no surprise.)

  52. Black Saint said on 11 Sep 2009 at 3:47 pm:
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    It may have been disrespectful but it is hard to respect liars in either party & Obama is a liar!

  53. Anon35 said on 11 Sep 2009 at 4:14 pm:
    Flag comment

    Black Saint said on 11 Sep 2009 at 3:47 pm: Flag comment
    It may have been disrespectful but it is hard to respect liars in either party & Obama is a liar!

    …..and the economy died!

  54. NoVA Scout said on 11 Sep 2009 at 8:19 pm:
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    When I read the link to the AP copy, it appears to me that Wilson was wrong (in addition to being a boor). How do you get “sure enough, Wilson was right” out of that? Perhaps more to the instant issue, how did Wilson get “you lie!” out of that?

    Joe Wilson is no doubt a liberal Dem planted to bring discredit on the Republican Party. I’m sure you all see that clearly. There’s no other rational explanation for something so distasteful and so beneath American standards of decency. I assume those of you who are defending him are part of this diabolical Democratic plot.

  55. REG said on 11 Sep 2009 at 10:28 pm:
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    Seems to me you can save a lot of healthcare costs by enforcing immigration laws. That’s no lie. Why don’t we start there?

  56. citizenofmanassas said on 11 Sep 2009 at 10:55 pm:
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    Nova,

    The White House in reaction to the very conservative Joe Wilson toughen the language in the bill regarding illegals. http://www.wtop.com/?nid=116&sid=1701389 Had it not been for Joe standing up and calling out obama, this would not have happened. I agree it was not the best way to get his point across. But, it did work.

  57. Anonymous said on 12 Sep 2009 at 12:02 am:
    Flag comment

    NoVA Scout on 11 Sep 2009

    YOU LIE! Put that in your smoke and pipe it!

  58. Anonymous said on 12 Sep 2009 at 12:07 am:
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    Pat.Herve said on 11 Sep 2009 at 9:34 am
    my latest Birth Cert does not even have a raised seal!

    Then it is a worthless piece of paper. It will not be recognized for what it is supposed to be when you have to present it legally.

  59. Anonymous said on 12 Sep 2009 at 12:15 am:
    Flag comment

    AnonII said on 11 Sep 2009 at 9:01 am: Flag comment
    a birth certificate is not enough to prove legal presence. Ask someone who has been mugged and lost all their id. A birth certificate and an original social security card are not enough. Ask someone knows.

    Apparently you were misinformmed. A passport of birth certificate was required at one time to cross the Canadian border to prove citizenship (now a passport is required and you need a birth certificate to apply for one. Try getting a background check from a police department which is required by some employees without a SSN. You will NOT get a report without it!

  60. legal2 said on 12 Sep 2009 at 6:53 am:
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    Joe Wilson can apologize when Charlie Rangel apologizes for being a tax cheat.
    Dems throwing money at Joe’s opponent; take a moment to donate to Joe Wilson for Congress (and other patriots like him):
    https://secure.piryx.com/donate/WzJc4e8g/joewilson/attack

  61. FED UP said on 12 Sep 2009 at 9:57 pm:
    Flag comment

    legal2 said on 12 Sep 2009 at 6:53 am:

    Heard his campaign took in $750K today alone!!! Go Joe, go!!!!!

  62. legal2 said on 13 Sep 2009 at 7:34 am:
    Flag comment

    Get your magnetic sticker “You Lie!” here - http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=3214

  63. Pat.Herve said on 13 Sep 2009 at 5:33 pm:
    Flag comment

    Anonymous,

    You are proving my point about the complexity of validating a birth certificate - In some areas of the Country, a water mark is what validates the document, not a raised seal.

  64. NoVA Scout said on 14 Sep 2009 at 10:05 pm:
    Flag comment

    Anon 0002 is obviously another one of those liberal dem saboteurs. Proved my point nicely.

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