Driving liberals, dhimmis and illegal alien apologists absolutely insane since 2005...

Rule of Law For Virginia

By Greg L | 16 June 2010 | Illegal Aliens, Virginia Politics | 49 Comments

Via Corey Stewart comes the Rule of Law Campaign for Virginia, which would establish something similar to Arizona’s SB 1070 for the Commonwealth.  Sounds like a fine idea to me, especially when the federal government is going out of its way to NOT do the job of getting and keeping illegal aliens out of the country!

Prince William County’s crackdown on illegal immigration worked: Illegal Aliens fled the county, and the violent crime rate plummeted. It is now time to protect all communities in Virginia from the effects of Illegal Immigration. Please join me in our effort to protect every county and city in the Commonwealth by following Prince William County’s and Arizona’s lead and enforce the Rule of Law.

Please join the petition below if you would like your state and local elected officials to support The Virginia Rule of Law Act, which would do the following:

* Enhance Police Powers to Capture, Detain, and help Deport Criminal Aliens
o Direct Virginia law enforcement officials to ascertain, in any lawful contact, the legal presence of an individual, when practicable.
o Direct Virginia jails to release criminal aliens to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) after serving their sentence.
o Allow law enforcement officials to arrest illegals without warrant if they have reasonable suspicion that the arrest would make them removable from the United States.
* Virginia Criminal Penalties for Illegal Aliens
o Make it a violation of Virginia law to fail to complete alien registration documents.
o Impose harsh penalties for terrorists and illegals caught with illegal drugs and deadly weapons.
* Outlaw Sanctuary Policies
o Prohibit cities and counties from preventing law enforcement officials from inquiring about legal presence or preventing them from sharing information with ICE.
* Outlaw Illegal Day Laboring and Public Roadside Solicitation
o Allow law enforcement officials to break up day laboring operations.
o Prohibit solicitation along all public roads, crippling illegal day labor sites.
* Crackdown on Human Smuggling
o Prohibit smuggling and human trafficking, especially for sexual slavery.

FULL DRAFT TEXT AVAILABLE SOON



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49 Comments

  1. Robert L. Duecaster said on 16 Jun 2010 at 3:10 pm:
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    While I support most of this initiative, I question whether a legislator is lined up to sponsor it. Without a sponsor, this is nothing more than a publicity gimmick. I’ll wait to see if there’s a chance of this getting introduced before I put my Herbie Hancock on it.

  2. Robert L. Duecaster said on 16 Jun 2010 at 3:13 pm:
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    And while Corey’s at it, he can explain why he and the rest of the BOCS voted to take away a parcel of land in Triangle without compensating the owner [see, http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/triangle/article/board_votes_no_payment_for_private_land/58545/P0/]. I asked his office for an explanation of that a week ago and have not gotten a response.

  3. D Brown said on 16 Jun 2010 at 3:14 pm:
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    And if ICE won’t take take them release them a few days early and use the savings to settle them in sanctuary cities.

  4. park'd said on 16 Jun 2010 at 3:47 pm:
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    While I too support this, maybe Corey can tell us why he let Deane spit in his face and not enforce HIS resolution back in 2007? While I agree that it worked for about a year, the illegals came FLOODING back around the middle of 2008 and it has gotten progressively worse since then. There are far more illegals in the area now than there were in 2007. Every morning I drive by houses FULL of them jumping into white work vans. I am utterly amazed at the level of them that I see here nowadays. The problem has gotten so much worse. The 7-11’s are packed, the home depots are loaded to the gills with them and the roads and sidewalks full of them. This morning some idiot in a white truck was honking at the guy in the house because he was picking him up and I guess the guy wasn’t coming out fast enough. I rolled up next to him and told him to knock off the honking at 6am as this is a residential area. If I see him do it again I am going to get out of my car and ask him politely face to face to abstain from honking his horn in the neighborhood at 6am and if he has a problem with it then I will simply call the police and ask them to cite him for violating noise ordinances. These people have no decency or respect for others. I wish Corey luck but judging how he got manhandled and uber pwned by Deane back in 2007 I’m not sure that he is the man to toot his horn and be the force behind something like this. No way something like this will work in an ever-increasing blue state like Virginia. FAR too many bleeding heart, wealthy and powerful libs in this area that don’t have to live around illegals.

  5. Robert L. Duecaster said on 16 Jun 2010 at 4:10 pm:
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    I just got a good explanation on the Parker property. Seems the Board’s position is they got a legitimate proffer from the Parkers and now the Parkers are reneging. It’s a question of fact for the court on the issue of whether the signatory of the proffer was a legitimate rep of the Parkers. It’s not a blatant uncompensated condemnation of property as our local fishwrap portrayed it.

    Park’d said: FAR too many bleeding heart, wealthy and powerful libs in this area that don’t have to live around illegals.

    Roger that. And many of them aren’t really bleeding hearts or libs. They’re just slave-masters profitting from the slave labor of the illegals, just as the ante-bellum plantation owners profitted from the labor of their slaves. And like the plantation owners, they’ve developed a vast coterie of propagandists, religious leaders, ESOL teachers, non-profit health care providers, and others who profit from the presence of large numbers of illegal aliens. So they’ve got money, voices, and votes. These are the real enemy, not the poor bastards in the white vans who wake you up in the morning. These are the people whose names are to be woven into a virtual tapestry of traitors to the country.

  6. Reason said on 16 Jun 2010 at 4:41 pm:
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    PArk’d,

    You appear to be someone who sees their cup as half empty, instead of half full. It takes political skill, and compromise, to get something controversial passed. The county is not run by a dictator who can fiat his will into law. Stewart, Stirrup and others accomplished what no other large community had accomplished at that point. Was it prefect? No. Did it solve all illegal immigration problems? No. But it was a start. The results were impressive. You are part of a county that blazed a trail that others now follow. You are right–the battle is not over. I know that Stewart, Stirrup, Covington and others on the Board are well aware of that.

  7. Right to Know said on 16 Jun 2010 at 4:51 pm:
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    Corey deserves credit for at least trying to do something about all the illegals here.I hope he can do something with this. Sign the Petition and it happen faster.

    They are coming back in droves. I have noticed the increase in the neighborhood.I have seen some move out and then more move in.Some of them are driving cars and they are not very good at it. They park 5 ft. out from the curb. One I watched and they took 6 tries and finally got it to within 3 ft.from the curb. The other mess is they don’t know how far to park from a Drive Way.One time they actually blocked a neighbors Drive Way. A call to police got them straight on that. But with new ones coming,it is happening all over again. Also the trash along the gutters in the street is filling up with their empty bottles of drink and their snacks that apparently they sit out at night,then trow it in the gutters. Most of them do not have Trash Service.

    I am not ready to go through this again. Sooo I am hoping Corey will have help and get this going.

    Mr. Duecaster,go to the County or call them and they can fill you in at Planning on why this was needed to be done. The Parkers had a contract for this property and knew what was going to be done but they decided not to honor that contract.They wanted to pull out, and apparently there is a procedure as to what is to be done. So
    it appears they wanted to do what they wanted and forget an arrangement.One does have to be careful what you agree to and sign papers. Greed will not get you there!

  8. Robert L. Duecaster said on 16 Jun 2010 at 4:58 pm:
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    Got it, Right to Know. See previous post.

    As for signing the petition, I’ve got to see what legislator is going to back this before supporting it. I have a feeling that none is on board, yet. If one commits to it, I’ll support it and him with both my signature and my wallet.

  9. Junes_Reston said on 16 Jun 2010 at 5:11 pm:
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    Reston is a planned community. It isnt the lifestyle some like (too many restrictions), but here are no illegals lined up on the streets, hanging out at 7-11’s or Home Depot.

    Also because Reston is made up of individual homeowers associations and condo associations, over crowding is a violation of the covenants and enforced within the smaller jurisdictions - though in the lower income areas, and public/subsidized housing, there is some over crowding.

    Sometimes, rather than looking at the big picture, maybe a problem is better addressed at the HOA level (when applicable) rather than at the county level.

    HOAs in VA have considerable covenants and guidelines enforcement power. If overcrowding is an issue, than so is parking. HOAs have the right to issue parking permits limiting the number of vehicles on the common parking area. To track vehicles per unit, the HOA can require tenants and homeowners provide the association with the make, model and license # for all cars per unit. In one association, this reduced the number of cars parking on the lot by almost 10% - along with trash, water and sewer and wear and tear on the common elements.

    Little things can make big changes when implemented properly and enforced regularly.

  10. Ronald said on 16 Jun 2010 at 5:17 pm:
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    Prince William voted out the only member of the delegation down in Richmond with the balls to introduce a bill like this last year.

  11. park'd said on 16 Jun 2010 at 7:36 pm:
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    They have been coming back for the past 2 years because they know the resolution was never really enforced, thanks to Deane and him basically spitting in Corey’s face and refusing to abide by the resolution that was passed by the majority. He apparently answers to nobody since none of the BoCS took steps to have him removed for insubordination and he still reigns over the PWCPD to this day as more and more illegals flood back into our neighborhoods. They flood back because they know they have a friend in Deane and nobody on the BoCS has the stones to toss Deane out on his rear end. Resolutions like this will NEVER work until and unless you get everyone in positions of authority on board. Look at that AG in Arizona who was colluding behind Brewer’s back with Barry and Holder. She sacked him lickity split from anything to do with the Arizona defense. Corey should have sacked Deane IMMEDIATELY or found a way to do it if he couldn’t do it directly. What does it say to the community when a resolution like ours passes by overwhelming majority only to be ignored because the chief of police decides he doesn’t think it’s fair or whatever excuse he had and won’t have his men enforce it? Ridiculous.

    As I type this, yet ANOTHER Hispanic is moving into the home next to mine. They apparently must be racist since they only allow Hispanics in that home. At any given time there are anywhere between 10-30 people in that house depending on if it is church night or birthday night or quinceria night or whatever the F else is going on in the family. I can’t get a minute’s peace here. The condo assn. says it’s the city’s job to enforce zoning and the city won’t do jack anyway so I haven’t even bothered to call them since I know exactly what they will say and what they will do. Most likely they will just harass ME for even having the gall to have a problem with 10-30 people in a 3 bedroom townhouse. As far as me seeing the cup half empty instead of half full? Puhleeze. I’m a realist. I see things the way they ARE. Not the way I would like them to be.

  12. Red, White and Blue said on 16 Jun 2010 at 8:25 pm:
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    All these post are good with solid points of discussion. Corey Stewart and John Stirrup certainly need to be applauded, no question. Without them and the efforts of Help Save Manassas, that resolution would never have happened. As for Deane, without a concerted effort by the Board, it is difficult to force the issue with Deane and he knows it. His job is politically woven so he knows the game.

    I agree that it will take a solid sponsor with backing to try and pass even the 287g program statewide; too many RINOs and liberals in the legislature. They would rather sell us out and that is exactly what they are doing. Governor Barber is a solid governor and has the guts to stand up to Obama and liberal Califfornia. What a breath of fresh air.

    Let us hope that sense abounds that this state must take steps now to implement the Arizona illegal bill. If Chief Deane and any other Chief is not working the 287g program as intended, we can count on illegals staying, crime to increase and 7/11s to harbor the leeches who hang out all day, doing the jobs American’s won’t do. It will take a revitalization of Help Save Manassas to bring issues to the forefront.

    BTW I heard that more crime is happening at the Manassas City 7/11 on Liberia. Let’s push one of our good legislators to get the Arizona illegal passed here and we show up to lobby for it and push it. It is also time for weak legislators to go and liberals to be voted out.

    If anyone wants a breath of fresh air, youtube Rick Barber running for Congress in Alabama. See his “gather the armies” commercial one as well as others. Now this guy is NOT fouling around!

  13. Patty said on 16 Jun 2010 at 8:28 pm:
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    Junes_Reston said

    “HOAs in VA have considerable covenants and guidelines enforcement power”

    Try telling that line to the Irongate HOA.

    (I’m trying to keep from rolling on the floor laughing)

  14. NoVA Scout said on 17 Jun 2010 at 4:17 am:
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    Sounds like a radical leftist attack on the Constitution of the United States. These wacked-out libs will stop at nothing. I guess Mr. Stewart, who likes to find a gimmick for each election cycle, hasn’t been able to come up with anything better than the horse he rode last time around.

  15. Freedom said on 17 Jun 2010 at 7:01 am:
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    OK, granted, Corey et al on the BOCS have not eliminated the problem of illegal aliens in the county, but statistics indicate that they have been able to reduce the problem. What I’d like to know from the “stone-throwers” out there is: “Please tell me of an individual who has done more than Corey Stewart or a Va political organization that has done more than the PWC BOCS to combat illegal presence.”

    It’s time to stop criticizing those who have worked the problem and achieved some success because they have been unable to achieve TOTAL success. Support of politicians who represent your views is critical!!

  16. Citizen12 said on 17 Jun 2010 at 9:13 am:
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    It’s a great idea but it would appear that this would be a tough sell to our governor as he has passed judgment on the Arizona bill some time ago.

    “I’m concerned about the whole idea of carrying papers and always having to be able to prove your citizenship. That brings up some shades of some other regimes that weren’t necessarily helpful to democracy.”

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2010/04/mcdonnell_concerned_about_ariz.html

    But perhaps there is hope, in a side stepping, mix it up, water it down, get nothing done, Washington kind of way…

    “We need to be able to expand lawful immigration here in America for those areas, in particular, where we can contribute to the economy, but we also need to be able to enforce the rule of law for those that are here illegally,“ said McDonnell, the grandson of an Irish immigrant.”

    http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/IMMI26S1_20100425-213604/340005/

    What happened to this plan….?

    “Let us heed the words of the Father of our Country, employ these eternal rules of order and right, and get to work for the good of the people of Virginia.”

    Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/ap/text-of-va-gov-bob-mcdonnells-inaugural-address-81884387.html#ixzz0r7PQjUNk

  17. anonymous said on 17 Jun 2010 at 10:03 am:
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    “Sounds like a radical leftist attack on the Constitution of the United States. These wacked-out libs will stop at nothing. I guess Mr. Stewart, who likes to find a gimmick for each election cycle, hasn’t been able to come up with anything better than the horse he rode last time around.”

    You’re just sore because Fimian won. Put some ice on it.

  18. park'd said on 17 Jun 2010 at 10:20 am:
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    Well Freedom, that’s my point. They have achieved NO success while claiming that they have. As I stated before, there are MORE illegals here now than there ever were. Maybe the illegals watch their step now a little more than they did before as far as petty crime is concerned, which is good, but still they know that the resolution was never really enforced due to Deane and so they came back in droves a year later. Why a year almost to the day you ask? Most likely because they signed 1 year leases in the apartments that they rented and discovered at the end of that lease that PWC and the 2 cities were open for business again and so they flooded right back into their cherished stomping grounds knowing full well that Deane and the PWCPD had no intention of ever enforcing the resolution.

    Here we are now at the beginnings of election campaign time and magically the resolution is front and center again. Corey would have my undying gratitude and support had he fired Deane in 2007 or at the very least made it so hard for Deane to continue that he would have retired on his own. But instead, he turned the other cheek and the resolution that should have been became the resolution that never was. You can claim Corey has no power to do that or that Deane is politically protected but believe me, there is ALWAYS a way to get things like that done.

  19. VA_Magoo said on 17 Jun 2010 at 11:55 am:
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    Sounds like a good idea and a plan. We have to start somewhere. I really thought the 287g program was going to work and it did until they took the teeth out of it. Lets reclaim our country, one county at a time if we have to!

  20. dee said on 17 Jun 2010 at 1:19 pm:
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    remember when corey stewart passed a similar bill in 2007 and it drove out a HUGE sector or prince william’s population, negatively affecting not only certain demographics but the ENTIRE prince william economy????

    what a GREAT idea, let’s do that again.

  21. anonymous said on 17 Jun 2010 at 1:40 pm:
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    Yea, the fraudulent home loans had nothing to do with it.

  22. park'd said on 17 Jun 2010 at 2:21 pm:
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    anon: while I agree with you, the resolution really did cause a tsunami of foreclosures instead of a steady stream which we may have been able to handle. There were literally thousands of foreclosures on the market within months of that resolution passing. Manassas Park dropped almost 40% from July 2007 to January 2008 as they ALL took off in droves. One of the guys living next to me in that house FULL of them stopped driving his truck and started riding a bike almost to the day the resolution was passed. He and his wife and their little boy were gone within months. Like it or not the resolution destroyed this area because it caused an all out rush instead of allowing a natural progression to take place. The people would have lost those homes either way but at least it would have been manageable for the area. The banks who gave $350k liar loans to maids and landscapers and the politicians like Kaine, Jones, Deane, Principi and Kassinger looking the other way are the TRUE culprits behind this mess. People like me and thousands like me in the area are just victims caught in the crossfire.

  23. anonymous said on 17 Jun 2010 at 4:03 pm:
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    It takes almost a year for a foreclosure to complete…from the time you stop sending in the payment till the house is back on the market as a foreclosure.

  24. anonymous said on 17 Jun 2010 at 4:05 pm:
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    Also, in MP, the first foreclosures and price drops started to happen in 2006, a full year and 6 months before that resolution.

  25. Cynic said on 17 Jun 2010 at 4:16 pm:
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    Just wondering, how many elected politicians in the Washington D.C. area represent citizens and how many represent the illegals.

    Don’t know all of them in Montgomery Co. MD, but, all that I am aware of represent the illegals over the citizens.

  26. park'd said on 17 Jun 2010 at 4:54 pm:
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    anon: Get out of here. I live here, I KNOW when it started. The houses started emptying out en masse summer 2007. I was active in the condo association at the time and we all could see it unfolding in real time right before our eyes. They were all just walking away which led us to the epic tsunami and drastic price drops from fall 2007 to fall 2008. It fairly well stabilized after that and maintained flat values of 70% off from peak. We gained about 15% this past winter and early spring but imo we are heading back to the lows again for the remainder of the year.

    While you are correct that the first smoldering started in late 2006, the resolution passing was just the final nail in the coffins of all the Hispanic enablers who owned the homes and their illegal brethren who rented rooms from them. They were already languishing due to the downturn in construction jobs but after the resolution they just said F it and disappeared almost overnight which caused the 18 month tsunami that we dealt with here. I remember it well because by the start of school of 2007 the roads were still empty on my way to work. The next summer they all started to return as renters. Now the problem is worse than ever.

  27. park'd said on 17 Jun 2010 at 5:10 pm:
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    And cynic, the VAST majority of politicians do NOT work for you or me or anyone else other than corporate interests. They are so mired in the corruption and shady dealings of their every day dishonest lives that they could care less what you or I think. Many of them are indeed sociopaths. Political correctness has them firmly in its grip as well. They are afraid to act on something like this for fear of being called a racist. The only thing that will motivate them is 1000000 people showing up at their office demanding action and so far that really hasn’t happened. Yet.

    TARP is a perfect example of this. Americans were overwhelmingly against it yet their reps still voted for it and many of you here even voted for those same reps mere weeks after they voted for it! *cough* Wolf. That kind of citizen apathy and willful ignorance only emboldens them further and leads us to the death spiral of corruption and incompetence that we are in now. Every single rep that voted for TARP should have been fired that year but in fact most of the ones that voted aye were handily returned to office. The fact is that most people don’t care and aren’t interested in this type of thing. They would rather watch DWTS or AI.

  28. Cynic said on 17 Jun 2010 at 7:14 pm:
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    park’d, You have said that the citizens are responsible for electing an reelecting the representatives that are in Office; therefore, the citizens are responsible for their own plight. Is that correct?

    Besides TARP, how about Health Care Reform?

  29. Brian Leeper said on 17 Jun 2010 at 10:10 pm:
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    “They were all just walking away which led us to the epic tsunami and drastic price drops from fall 2007 to fall 2008.”

    Park’d, I am on record as stating during citizens time at the August 21, 2007 meeting of the Manassas Park Governing Body that the value of my house dropped 50k from the assessed value on Jan 1, 2007.

    The drastic price drops started long before the resolution, as did my concern about dropping housing prices. I believe that my 2006 assessment here in the park did not reflect reality, and was in fact too high.

    I found a report stating that some 30% of home loans made in MP were sub-prime or had a higher than average interest rate, which, for the period of time covered by the report, was the highest in the region. That report came out in 2005.

    Is it any wonder, then, that MP had a comparatively high rate of foreclosures with the concomitant drops in property values–particularly when the national economy starts to slow as it did roughly during that same time frame?

    I would also like to note that I own property elsewhere which showed the same magnitude of housing value decrease that we saw in MP, in a jurisdiction nowhere near PWC. I think it reasonable to assume that the resolution had no effect on the housing prices in that jurisdiction due to it’s distance from PWC.

    “but imo we are heading back to the lows again for the remainder of the year.”

    One major cause of that is that the $8000 credit for buying a house has ended as of April 30.

  30. Brian Leeper said on 17 Jun 2010 at 10:38 pm:
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    Incidentally, I emailed a copy of that report to one of the city council members back in the spring or summer of 2006 because what I saw really concerned me. Too bad they did nothing with it. I spoke to the assessor a while ago and he told me he had never seen this report before.

  31. Anonymous said on 18 Jun 2010 at 6:29 am:
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    Well, it is pretty suspect that Corey’s coming out with this when an election is nearing. That’s one negative.

    The other is Chief (I HATE calling him that) Deane. The simple matter is you’ll have the same problem that Arizona has now with their libtard police chief in Phoenix who doesn’t want to enforce the law, ’cause those communities will be ascairt of talking with the policia, so crime increases. Yeah right. Just look at the last names of those protesting and you get the idea. What Deane’s issue is, I have no clue.

    No, I’d fell MUCH better if the Corey got someone to sponsor the bill as someone said earlier. I’d also feel much better if “Mr. Protected Police Chief” was removed as well. I still remember seeing him with the Mexican consulate, having meetings on the side with the lovers of illegals…..Grrr…it STILL pisses me off to this day!

  32. park'd said on 18 Jun 2010 at 9:00 am:
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    Brian, I agree somewhat and I already said that prices started dropping in 2006 and that the impetus behind our problems was the stalling construction industry which employed all the Hispanics and their illegal brethren that lived here at the time. The resolution just caused the ones that were still hanging on to say F it and walk away - ALL AT THE SAME TIME. The REAL drops in property value and the walk aways did not start in earnest almost until the day that the resolution was passed. Also afaik there are no other jurisdictions on the east coast that had the same level of percentage drops in value from peak that MP had. Only select zipcodes in Ca, Fl, and Nv can claim that honor along with us. You are on the east side of town so your losses aren’t nearly as great as ours over here on the barrio side of town. Last I checked there was about a 20+% greater loss over here.

    I also agree that until Corey grows a pair and sacks Deane that there is no excuse for him being the driving force behind a state-wide bill. And once again please don’t tell me that Corey doesn’t have the power to do that or make it happen because there is always a way. He just chose not to do it. As far as I’m concerned, He lost all relevance after he let that insubordination fiasco with Deane stand back in 2007 and until he undoes that mistake he will never have any relevance with regard to this issue. I applaud Jan Brewer for not making the same mistakes.

  33. Advocator said on 18 Jun 2010 at 9:07 am:
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    Anonymous said on 18 Jun 2010 at 6:29 am: What Deane’s issue is, I have no clue.

    The issue is his Party affiliation. Always has been, always will be, a Democrat.

    Unfortunately, most Republicans aren’t much better.

  34. Brian Leeper said on 18 Jun 2010 at 10:13 am:
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    “Also afaik there are no other jurisdictions on the east coast that had the same level of percentage drops in value from peak that MP had. Only select zipcodes in Ca, Fl, and Nv can claim that honor along with us.”

    I knew you were going to say that and here is my answer to that:

    MP does not have very many different neighborhoods and is a small jurisdiction. This is not true for most other jurisdictions in the area.

    The property I own is located is in neighborhood that certainly experienced the same type of declines we saw in MP. That is a fact and I can prove it. However, this neighborhood does not make up ~50% of the jurisdiction it’s located in. If it were, we might expect to see the same sort of stats there that we see in MP.

    So, the reason MP would appear to be disproportionately affected by the housing downturn is that it has a disproportionate amount of the type of housing that was affected by the downturn.

    Heavily relying on your residential tax base to fund the city because there is limited commercial development in the city also does not help matters.

  35. Brian Leeper said on 18 Jun 2010 at 10:15 am:
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    “You are on the east side of town so your losses aren’t nearly as great as ours over here on the barrio side of town. Last I checked there was about a 20+% greater loss over here.”

    I live across the street from a townhouse that sold for $377k and then sold a few years later for $150k.

  36. Brian Leeper said on 18 Jun 2010 at 10:18 am:
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    “The resolution just caused the ones that were still hanging on to say F it and walk away - ALL AT THE SAME TIME.”

    They might have walked away, but were they paying the mortgage before they did?

    If not, their walking away probably helped.

  37. park'd said on 18 Jun 2010 at 1:58 pm:
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    Brian: we will never know the REAL truth because it would take a RE agent, an army of lawyers and subpoenas to numerous banks to find out when the ‘owners’ stopped paying, who stopped paying, what their nationalities were and how they qualified for the loans in the first place. All I am saying is that I am not a big believer in coincidence. The simplest solution tends to be the correct solution in my experience and from what I saw, the entire town up and disappeared within months after the resolution was passed. Am I ruling out coincidence? Not entirely, but let’s just say it is low on my list of reasons as to why MP’s foreclosure crisis hit as quickly and as bad as it did during that time frame. Either way they have all returned now anyway and business as usual is the name of the game. I had to go into work late today and traffic is just ridiculous in this town. Every single house has 10 occupants each with their own car and there are only two small roads leading north out of town. The commute is worse than ever if not THE worst ever and I ask myself, “I pay taxes for this why?” 20 minutes to go 3 miles is an outrage and 50% of that is due to illegals; and that percentage guess is on the conservative side. The only benefit I saw from the resolution passing was about a year of excellent low traffic commutes to work but I paid for that excellent commute with a $200k payment from the value of my house.

  38. Brian Leeper said on 18 Jun 2010 at 2:33 pm:
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    In my experience, simple solutions only work for simple problems. What happened here is anything BUT a simple problem.

    I view this situation with the resolution and the foreclosure crisis as analogous to someone whose car is having transmission problems. They’ve never gotten the transmission serviced, it’s starting to act up, so they take it to Jiffy Lube for a transmission fluid change, and then the transmission fails a week later and they blame Jiffy Lube, when it was their neglect which actually caused the problem in the first place.

    Likewise with the housing market. Regulators looked the other way, everyone was happy as long as prices were rising, anyone who had any concerns was thought to be “chicken little”…and then the party crashed and now we’re looking for someone to blame.

    “I had to go into work late today and traffic is just ridiculous in this town.”

    You know, when I hit 3 red lights in a row, I start to think that maybe VDOT needs to fix the problem.

  39. park'd said on 18 Jun 2010 at 4:24 pm:
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    I saw Corey on news channel 8? today talking about the new initiative and when asked if he thought the 2007 law caused the foreclosure crisis in our area he said no. I just rolled my eyes. In a manner of speaking he is right but only in sneaky, twisted politispeech. The resolution per se did not cause the massive amount of foreclosures we got here in this area compared to other areas but what it did do is cause them to happen ALL AT THE SAME TIME! Not sure what is so hard to understand about that. Low income Hispanics, whether they be legal or illegal, getting home loans for $350k was never a good idea to begin with and if the federal, state and local governments had done their jobs in the first place and enforced immigration law then we wouldn’t even be in this mess.

    Brian: kudos my friend. You are starting to sound just like a politician these days. While true that VDOT could do a much better job of timing the lights, there is not much they can do about the volume of cars on the road in MP due to all the overcrowding…

  40. Brian Leeper said on 18 Jun 2010 at 5:18 pm:
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    Please look at page 7 on the following PDF:

    http://www.dhcd.virginia.gov/vfptf/PDFs/Foreclosure%20Data%20Presentation%20-VHDA.pdf

    It shows foreclosure activity for 2007, and what appears to be the Sterling Park area in Loudoun was heavily affected like MP.

  41. Brian Leeper said on 18 Jun 2010 at 5:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    As far as VDOT goes, it’s not traffic volume when the traffic can’t move because the upstream traffic light is still red when the one you’re sitting at just turned green.

    As far as being a politician goes, if I’m not telling you what you want to hear, I’m a politician. If I’m telling you what you do want to hear, I must be a politician too. Can’t win.

  42. Brian Leeper said on 18 Jun 2010 at 5:45 pm:
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    Also, in that PDF, see the graph on page 23. This graph shows that the rate of price increase for the “lower price tier”, the blue line, was higher than the rate of price increase for the middle and higher price tiers.

    This is a very interesting graph in that it supports what I suspected to be the case: The value of the more expensive homes was more stable during the boom times than the lower end of the market.

    It also shows that the price declines for the “lower price tier” will be greater than the price declines for the middle and higher price tier in order to get back to historical norms.

    Therefore, it would follow that a jurisdiction with a larger percentage of it’s housing stock in the lower price tier, like MP, will have greater price declines than a jurisdiction with a larger percentage of it’s housing stock in the middle and higher price tiers, like Fairfax County.

    Also of note is that this PDF does not cite the PWC resolution as the cause of any of the foreclosure activity, but instead cites exactly what I stated to be the cause: A high level of subprime loans.

    In fact, if you look at the graph on page 14, it shows that the foreclosure rate of prime fixed rate loans increased by a miniscule amount, while the subprime and alt-A loan foreclosure rate increased dramatically, with an uptick in 2Q 2007, and another uptick prior to that in 2Q 2006.

  43. Brian Leeper said on 18 Jun 2010 at 5:55 pm:
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    Also note that the graph on page 14 is statewide. If you look at the graph, there is a sharp increase in the foreclosure rate after 2Q 2007, which roughly corresponds with the time that the resolution was passed.

    Either that resolution had statewide effects, or something else drove that foreclosure rate up.

    It would be interesting to look at that graph superimposed over a graph of interest rates over the same time period. That might provide some insight as to why there was the large uptick after 2Q 2007.

  44. park'd said on 18 Jun 2010 at 9:41 pm:
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    Brian: Lights are always going to turn red. There is no way around that. The volume on the road is the reason for the congestion, not the fact that lights do what they do which is turn red. Even if you timed 3 lights in a row to turn red and green at the same time, the amount of volume coming from MP will still clog the works once those lights turn red again. People always doddle and there is always a 10 car gap between cars in the morning as some idiot is putting on their makeup or fiddling with the radio and not paying attention to the road and the lights. I also literally see home after home here where there are 10-15 people living in each home. The average in my own neighborhood is probably 6-8 per home. Each home has 2-10 drivers in it depending on if it is overcrowded and ALL of them head out the same tiny little road to get out of here. It’s ridiculous. Time those lights all you want but it will make no difference as long as hundreds or maybe even thousands of illegals keep moving into the area every year.

    Thanks for the pdf. It just solidifies my own research that MP is the hardest hit zipcode in Virginia and one of the if not THE hardest hit zipcodes on the east coast. It’s very frustrating that we have managed to stay out of the limelight for that distinction. I wish I knew of a way to change that but at this point I don’t really care anymore. I just want out of here.

    As I said before, I do agree that the resolution did not CAUSE the foreclosure problem because that had already started 6 months before as prices started to drop. I could see it in my neighborhood in early 2007 as houses were not selling and prices had dropped from 375k to 295k within months. They were fairly stable in the high 200’s until right after that resolution passed and then BAM! home after home emptied out and prices dropped to the 190’s almost overnight it seemed. So no, the resolution did not cause this mess. It just turned up the fire and sped up the pace to a point where it overwhelmed everybody. It was coming either way through rate increases, loss in income due to construction downturn and drops in property values. I still to this day can not figure out why I still continue to make payments on this house. It is a failed investment and really should be treated as such but I continue to do the right thing against all common sense…

  45. Brian Leeper said on 18 Jun 2010 at 11:06 pm:
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    “The volume on the road is the reason for the congestion, not the fact that lights do what they do which is turn red. Even if you timed 3 lights in a row to turn red and green at the same time, the amount of volume coming from MP will still clog the works once those lights turn red again.”

    There a backup on 28 around the vicinity of New Braddock Rd. and ONLY New Braddock Rd.–at all hours of the day, no less. I can go through there at 10am and it’s still backed up.

    The fact is that increased traffic volumes make a poor signal timing plan very obvious.

    A poor signal timing plan causes green time to be wasted as traffic cannot move because adjacent signals are not green. If New Braddock Rd. turns green for 28 while Machen Rd. is still red and continues to stay red for another 20 seconds, that’s 20 seconds of wasted green time for the New Braddock Rd. signal because nobody could move.

    Likewise, Machen Rd. is green for 28 that many seconds after New Braddock has already changed to red. More wasted green time.

    The signals at Machen Rd. and New Braddock Rd. used to be better synchronized. It used to be that when New Braddock Rd. turned green, Machen Rd. had already been green long enough for the traffic sitting there to clear out. This worked very well.

    “Thanks for the pdf. It just solidifies my own research that MP is the hardest hit zipcode in Virginia and one of the if not THE hardest hit zipcodes on the east coast.”

    If you’re looking at it by zipcode or by jurisdiction that’s probably true. If you look at it by geographical area, well, that map on page 6 show some large dark red blobs in Woodbridge/Dale City and some in Fairfax/Loudoun on the county line, which looks to be in the Sterling Park or Herndon areas (it’s a bit hard to tell). I think looking at it geographically, on a map, is a better way to see the scope of the problem. Looking at it that way, I can see that other areas in Northern VA had their foreclosure issues as well, and MP is not unique in that regard.

    To put it another way, if I took that red blob on the Loudoun/Fairfax line, incorporated it as a city (we could call it Loufax), and made sure that it was one contiguous zip code(12345), Loufax with zipcode 12345 would, in terms of foreclosures, look as bad as Manassas Park with zipcode 20111.

    “They were fairly stable in the high 200’s until right after that resolution passed and then BAM! home after home emptied out and prices dropped to the 190’s almost overnight it seemed.”

    It’d be interesting to see how many of those homes had home equity loans taken out shortly before they were vacated. That’s a pattern I saw a couple of times when a friend of mine was house-hunting. What’s odd is that I only looked at the history on about 4 houses and 2 of them had this pattern of the house having been given as a $0 gift to the last owner who then apparently took a home equity loan on the house and let it go into foreclosure. I’m not so sure that’s a coincidence.

    It almost smells like organized fraud to me.

  46. Big Dog said on 19 Jun 2010 at 1:48 pm:
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    Wish everyone would remember, including the jerk Fernandez of
    hate sign fame, that Manassas and Manassas Park ARE NOT part
    of Prince William County. Corey, like him or not, isn’t
    an elected official in either city. The “Resolution” wasn’t passed
    by either city council, but by the PWC BOCS.

  47. Brian Leeper said on 19 Jun 2010 at 3:49 pm:
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    That’s true, but the claim is that the resolution either (1) caused the foreclosure crisis in the cities or (2) made it worse.

    I have not seen any evidence which supports either of those positions. I am discounting anecdotal evidence; if it’s not on paper with graphs and numbers, it can’t be verified.

  48. Big Dog said on 19 Jun 2010 at 4:10 pm:
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    Brian,
    If one looks at what happened in the Sterling Park area of
    Loudoun County, miles from PWC, foreclosure rates matched our
    local foreclosures during the same period. I think the “Resolution”,
    on its own, had, at most, a very modest impact. Various communities
    across America have suffered from the Great Recession, including
    increased foreclosures. You are right, in God we trust, all
    others provide data.

  49. Brian Leeper said on 19 Jun 2010 at 5:13 pm:
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    Lord Kelvin said it best:

    “In physical science the first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of Science, whatever the matter may be.”

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