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Delegate Miller Gives The Hard Truth

By Greg L | 5 January 2011 | 50th HOD District | 51 Comments

When was the last time you saw an elected official tell someone the gravy train ain’t stoppin’ at this station?

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  1. VA_Magoo said on 5 Jan 2011 at 9:04 am:
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    Living within your means is no longer just a family matter. It has to become a county matter, a State matter and a FEDERAL matter.

    Just like your home budgets, you can only live off your credit cards for so long before your creditors start to line up and demand payment. All levels of government must recognize this common sense approach to our budgets and spending patterns. The WANTS will have to take a back seat to the NEEDS of the community and State until we can get our economy back on track and get our people working again. Private sector job creation has got to be the number one priority in Richmond and Washington.

  2. Robert L. Duecaster said on 5 Jan 2011 at 9:48 am:
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    Correction, Magoo: Private sector job creation FOR AMERICANS has got to be the number one priority in Richmond and Washington.

  3. Forgotten Man said on 5 Jan 2011 at 12:24 pm:
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    I think that Delegate Miller should listen with his ears and not his mouth as one or two of the speakers was not asking for increased funding, just some accountablity.

    I also think that Delegate Miller may want to have a look at the Prince William Cooperative Extension website as there is way more to the office than just 4H. There is a Parenting program to assist at risk youth, A Nutrition program that works with students and parents who require education about proper diets as well as a diabetes program. The Master Gardener program delivers food to the various homeless shelters and food banks and the Finacial Education program helps people avoid foreclosure and teaches first time home buyers as to a home purchase. I think that to qualify for a PW County assisted loan this class is mandatory.

    There is presently a plan from Va Tech to consolidate 106 Extension offices to 22 regional hubs which may in fact gut the Prince William office and hurt those who require the educational services that the 1300 or so volunteers provide to the community.

  4. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 12:34 pm:
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    Jackson Miller is ignorant of 4H. 4H was never an agricultural program. It is a youth educational program that provides educational opportunities that are not available in public schools. That is a fact.

    So, is he in favor cutting 4H to fund Medicaid?

    No one has to provide proof of legal status to obtain Medicaid benefits. That is a fact. I imagine that the Medicaid rolls are full of illegal aliens. So, would Jackson Miller like to introduce a bill that would require proof of legal status in order to obtain Medicaid benefits?

    I would like to know the millions of dollars of Medicaid benefits going to illegal aliens. Wouldn’t you?

  5. Anonymous said on 5 Jan 2011 at 1:15 pm:
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    Patty, no one has to provide legal status to recieve the benefits of 4H either you idiot.

  6. Carlos Montano said on 5 Jan 2011 at 1:48 pm:
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    Aye, chihuahua! I demand my 4-H benefits!

  7. Jack said on 5 Jan 2011 at 3:12 pm:
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    My take is that Mr. Miller was only using 4-H as an example of mission creep. He wasn’t making a judgment on whether 4-H provided valuable services or not, he was making a point that there is only so much money to go around and that it was time for the government to getting back to funding core responsibilities. I don’t think his contrast to Medicare was particularly effective in making his point but the real point is that while 4-H may offer wonderful services, is it a core responsibility of the state to provide 4-H services and it was time to reevaluate how much funding was going to programs that have grown in scope over time.

    No group wants to be the one that receives funding cuts. But just like individuals, when organizations look hard, there are always places to cut spending.

    I may not WANT to get rid of my cable TV, but if push comes to shove I’ll go without to pay the heating bills because TV is not a necessity. 4-H and others now need to identify analogous spending decisions.

  8. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 3:21 pm:
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    4H requires parental involvement. It is not a drop off club.

    4H volunteers and participants have to fill out forms. Everyone has to fill out a code of conduct form which states that all applicable laws have to be followed. Volunteer leaders have to fill out forms so background checks can be performed. There are questions asking about criminal convictions. Also parent leaders have to provide references. Everyone has to fill out a health history form. These forms are required.

    Draw your own conclusion.

    Cutting 4H is another example of having to shift money from viable resources to fund money pits such as WIC, Section 8, Medicaid, ESOL, free breakfasts, free lunches, free education, etc benefits to illegal aliens.

    When will the GA have the guts to count illegal aliens receiving those benefits? I imagine the amounts that illegal aliens suck out of our pockets is staggering.

    Kudos to Frederick Maryland. They had the courage to send a legislative package to a hostile legislature demanding that illegal aliens in public schools should be counted.

  9. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 3:25 pm:
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    How about cutting all funding to public libraries so we can continue giving handouts to illegal aliens?

  10. Anonymous said on 5 Jan 2011 at 3:31 pm:
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    Patty, you love to attack anything that you see giving benefit to illigals until it is your own ox. You are a hypocrite. The kids down here in Dale City taking part in the 4H classes are almost entirely hispanic. Make your own conclusions, idiot.

  11. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 3:43 pm:
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    You just shot yourself in the foot….equating all Hispanics as illegal aliens.

    Ha Ha Ha ……….

    Just one more thing. I would bet the house you know nothing about 4H or any of the clubs.

  12. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 3:49 pm:
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    Be careful what you say. I’m familiar with the 4H clubs…. unlike you.

    Of course you obviously like to shoot your mouth off on subjects you have no clue….lying gets you nowhere.

  13. Budget Billy said on 5 Jan 2011 at 4:30 pm:
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    You can’t fund everything and I am not so sure this one passes the test in my estimation. Sure, it seems like a good organization and all but you gotta start the budget axe somewhere right - so why not here? I value lower taxes more than this club in the last analysis.

  14. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 5:35 pm:
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    Budget Billy,

    Let’s close the libraries so funds can be shifted to Medicaid, WIC, Section 8, free breakfasts, free lunches, free education to help illegal aliens. Why stop with the libraries let’s close all the parks and cut the park service. Ask the GA why ESOL students need a larger classroom then regular students.

    I think the citizens would be absolutely shocked to find out how much money is being handed over to illegal aliens… our tax dollars…. our money.

    We need to start counting how many illegal aliens are receiving these benefits.

    Frederick Maryland wants to count. We need to count ASAP.


    How about it Delegate Miller? Can you introduce a bill that will allow local jurisdictions to count? I truly believe that the citizens of this county/country have a right to know where their hard earned money is going and that includes knowing how much of our hard earned money is going to illegal aliens.

  15. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 5:49 pm:
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    Please see previous thread about the cost of illegal immigration. You should listen to Donna Widawski. She documented the cost of incarcerating just one illegal alien.

    Do the math.

  16. DPortM said on 5 Jan 2011 at 5:57 pm:
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    Illegal Aliens cost the Commonwealth of Virginia a minium of 1.75 BILLION dollars in 2009.

  17. Anonymous said on 5 Jan 2011 at 6:09 pm:
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    As a caregiver of a disabled person on Medicaid, I support Miller’s comments. As a constituent, it gives me reason to voting for him again.

    Medicaid isn’t reserved strictly for “illegals” or those who don’t “choose” to work - it provides insurance and community based services for the severely disabled so they may be cared for and continue to live in the community and our homes rather than be placed in hospitals or institutions at a much greater expense to public and considerable heartache to the family. $40 million was cut from waiver services for the disabled ($79 million total if you count federal matching funds) in the upcoming budget. My family came from Europe in the 19th century. We work, have insurance, and pay our taxes. We have never collected welfare, never collected unemployment, nothing until a disability that cannot be recovered from entered our lives. Why would anyone say 4H is more deserving than American adults and children who are disabled and receive services through Medicaid? Why is there such a stigma?

    Accountability for the citizenship of all who get these services? Absolutely. That would be something productive from Washington or Richmond. Lumping all who get services together as “illegal” for the sake of debate. No.

  18. Anonymous said on 5 Jan 2011 at 6:09 pm:
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    Patty, I made no such equasion you idiot. I simply said make your own conclusion. Something you seem to regularly do with so many different dept’s of govt. when it comes to illegals.

    Again, I will say you are a hypocrite. You freak out (rightlfully so) about illegals using govt. or govt. funded services. That is until some politician says something about your personal little govt. funded pet project.

  19. Jaspar said on 5 Jan 2011 at 6:13 pm:
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    “Jackson Miller is ignorant of 4H. 4H was never an agricultural program. It is a youth educational program that provides educational opportunities that are not available in public schools. That is a fact.”

    Patty: You are a complete idiot.

    4-H began as a agricultural program, I know, I was in it before the liberals destroyed it. I showed my Holstein heifers at the county 4-H fair and also my White Leghorn chickens. We learned that hard work and effort would payoff with fair competition and reward.

    In those days, not everyone got a blue ribbon under the false liberal dictate of equality and tolerance. Hence, there were winners and losers and all were proud to take part in it.

    Liberals destroyed 4-H by turning into an LBJ-type Great Society scam to cater to those that found it’s original focus on farm kids to be somewhat discriminatory towards inner city and non-farm kids.

    Liberals destroy every rightous American institution they get their hands on.

    They destroyed 4-H in the same manner that they are currently destroying the U.S. military by forcing out proven warriors for the sake of tolerance towards homosexual fudge-packers that could reload a Hasbro cap gun.

  20. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 6:14 pm:
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    What I’m saying is that illegal aliens should not be given any benefits. They should be going home and let their government take care of them. Every dollar that goes to an illegal alien is one dollar that doesn’t go to a citizen and legal resident.

    That is a fact that you can not refute.

  21. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 6:19 pm:
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    As far as 4H, I do believe Delegate Miller needs to educate himself about 4H before he shoots his mouth off again.

    Kudos to Delegate Anderson who actually did his homework and researched 4H. He realizes how much bang for the buck VCE and 4H provide.

    Consider this, we only have ONE full time extension agent. Just ONE.

  22. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 6:30 pm:
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    I was in 4H probably before Jackson Miller attended grade school. I still have a copy of the 4H mission. It’s too bad I can’t post a copy of it on this thread.

    I met two 4H alumni that are many years older than me. They learned things like sewing and that is NOT agriculture.

    4H is a youth educational program. It is not just agriculture.

    4H Head, Heart, Hands, Health.

    Ad hom. attacks are not a basis for rational reasoning.

  23. Jaspar said on 5 Jan 2011 at 6:45 pm:
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    Sewing is an agricultural program whereas it started under the aupices of 4-H’s original intent to serve rural kids.

    Liberals destroyed it.

    Are you a liberal? If so, aren’t you glad your mom didn’t abort you so you can come on this forum and make a fool of yourself.

  24. Anonymous said on 5 Jan 2011 at 6:49 pm:
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    Ad hom. attacks? Are you kidding me?

    Patty, you are the one who called this Delegate “ignorant about 4H” when he already said in his comments that he needed to learn about 4H.

    What kills me is idiots like you who love attacking govt. funding until its you own little personal ‘ox’ getting gored.

    SEWING? holy S#*t. A poloitico that wants to stop sending my tax dollars to the 4H sewing lessons. God forbid. Off with this guys head.

    This is why politicians are so afraid to criticize anything already existing in a budget, idiots like you going crazy because your pet project might be on the chopping block.

    I say KUDOS to this politician who had the nerves to say to those begging for more money, “sorry but the well has run dry.”

    I wish more of them would do the same.

  25. Greg L said on 5 Jan 2011 at 6:55 pm:
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    Wikipedia has the history of the organization laid out, and indeed it seems that mission has changed considerably. Not too surprising seeing that the parent organization is a federal agency, the Department of Agriculture:

    The foundations of 4-H began around the start of the twentieth century, with the work of several people in different parts of the United States. The focal point of 4-H has been the idea of practical and hands-on learning, which came from the desire to make public school education more connected to rural life. Early programs tied both public and private resources together to benefit rural youth.

    During this time, researchers at experiment stations of the land-grant universities and USDA saw that adults in the farming community did not readily accept new agricultural discoveries, but educators found that youth would experiment with these new ideas and then share their experiences and successes with the adults. So rural youth programs became a way to introduce new agriculture technology to the adults.

    “Mission creep” anyone? Even if that creep has gone in some pretty positive directions?

  26. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 7:32 pm:
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    You are way off base. Even using Wikipedia as a source. You should know better.

    4H is a youth educational program designed to help youth learn about subjects they do not learn about in public school. That does change with the times. It would have to. You know yourself in your line of work how mission statements for companies are not specific to tie one to a specific technology. Look at Kodak.

    The H’s in 4H stand for head, heart, hands, and health. The goal is to give great educational opportunities for youth so that they can better their community.

    If you have time I will invite you to the 4H office so that you can educate yourself on the history of 4H.

    Please, as a friend do not use Wikipedia as a source for 4H information. You are better than that.

    Talk to Delegate Anderson. He actually did some research on 4H.

  27. Anonymous said on 5 Jan 2011 at 8:32 pm:
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    “That does change with the times. It would have to.”

    Patty, thank you so much for you constant source of idiocy. YOU JUST MADE THE POINT MILLER WAS MAKING. MISSION CREEP.

    A govt. funded program voted on and paid for by a legislature at some specific point in time due to a specific need. As the years go by that specific need goes away.

    So those that are funded (i.e. PAID) for the specific need that was created so many years ago begin to slowly change what they do to catch up with the times. The legislature never really has a debate again, or questions if that need is still relevant. When they do, its the tax funded idiots like you who demand “leave my great little program alone.”

    As I said before its because of people like you, politicians refuse to touch anything already existing in a budget. Alls the guy was saying was we need to go back and look at the structure of how all agencies and programs are funded, and you go beserk.

    Again, thank you so much for your last post in proving Miller right.

  28. Jaspar said on 5 Jan 2011 at 8:55 pm:
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    Here are examples of how 4-H has “creeped” from it’s original agricultural/rural intent:




  29. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 9:07 pm:
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    The mission of 4H never changed. It is youth development.

    Quit twisting words.

    The only mission creep I see is from those who potray themselves as public servants who turn out to be politicians who blow along with the current political winds.

    As far as Miller, he himself said he did not know much about 4H. He would do well to find out more about it. Delegate Anderson did. Kudos to Delegate Anderson.

    Anonymous, why don’t you listen to the video?

    You seem to have a habit of sticking your foot in your mouth.

    To those who care:

    4H does a fund raiser to support their activities. They still have pecans for sale. If you are interested please contact the 4H office.

  30. not apathetic anymore said on 5 Jan 2011 at 9:26 pm:
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    Many are going back and forth over one program which I equate to watching pennies while the dollars roll out the door.

    Not one person said anything about the legacy costs and benefit packages of our goverment employees .

    Over the last ten years as a blue collar worker I’ve seen my insurance benefits decrease and my pension plan which is a 401 k which depends on what I put in it.
    Also workforce reductions while the same amount of production is expected, after all we have to remain competative, also with very little inflation, forget about a raise.

    I would feel safe saying that the people that are making the budget decisions are fairly successful and the higher taxes are barely noticed at the end of the year in their personal finances.

    I would like to offer this challenge to the decisionmakers
    ( council,mayor,delegate,senator) and that is try to live on 50k a year of which I think is about average around here.

    Contribute 5%to your 401k in a meager attempt not to eat dog food in retirement
    Pay your now 3500$ prop tax (from less than 1800$a few years ago) and a couple hundred for personal prop tax
    Don’t forget the 11k in state and fed deductions and this is before the myriad of taxes and fees to numerous to mention.
    5k towards the family health insurance,

    I dare say you’ll notice any tax increases and may even become vocal for the first time.

    Illegal aliens need to be dealt with now and not one penny of my tax should they recieve.

    Doubling my local taxes over the last 10 yrs and nothing to show for it is not a sign of good goverment and schools.

    Cut the spending,Go back to the 2000 budget and compare with todays and start cutting
    Get out of my wallet

  31. Patty said on 5 Jan 2011 at 9:28 pm:
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    4H is not begging for more money. They are just saying they need what they were promised instead of it all going to the administrators at Tech. Of course football seems to be more important to VA Tech than educating children.

    Those who know me know I am NOT a liberal. You need an education Jasper. I suppose if Miller told you to jump in front a moving truck on the Capital Beltway, you would do it.

    By the way Jasper, FYI the News and Messenger labeled Miller as a moderate.

  32. Fred said on 5 Jan 2011 at 10:03 pm:
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    So Patty, are you calling Miller a moderate also?

  33. Anonymous said on 5 Jan 2011 at 10:19 pm:
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    Health care cost are eating up a large portion of the budget.

  34. Anonymous said on 5 Jan 2011 at 10:29 pm:
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    Your stupidity is more entertaining than a Barnie Fife piece on the Andy Griffith show. Please keep your posts coming. Your hypocrisy and stupidity keep mounting.

    At 7:32 Y-O-U-R words are “That change with the times.” Again proving Millers point. So I am not ‘twisting’ your words.

    Then at 9:28 you say “The mission of 4H never changed. Its youth development.” PALEEEESE…. Thats better spin that the Clinton machine could ever produce.

    Then you say you are a Conservative. Perhaps, I have no idea what you are. If you are a conservative it just goes to show how screwed we are when it comes to govt. spending, because as I said earlier - when your ox gets gored you go nuts.

  35. Anonymous said on 5 Jan 2011 at 10:31 pm:
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    It seems you are the one sticking your foot in your mouth Patty.

  36. Patty said on 6 Jan 2011 at 11:20 am:
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    Sorry, it was the Gainesville Times:


    Also, they overlooked a liberal social issue that Miller voted for:


  37. Padre said on 6 Jan 2011 at 9:44 pm:
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    If Jackson Miller is a moderate, I am a monkey’s uncle. That is NOT what the Gainesville Times said. It compared the two men and said that Miller was the more moderate of the two. That doesn’t take Miller out of the conservative gene pool.

  38. Patty said on 7 Jan 2011 at 8:20 am:
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    Did you check the links I gave for HB2385? He voted for it even when the majority wanted it tabled. That is not characteristic of a social conservative. Do you think Bob Marshall would have voted for it?

    Did you read the article? Miller stated that he had no problem raising taxes. He voted for that monstrosity that would have allowed unelected officials to tax us. Do you really think those actions are characteristic of a fiscal and constitutional conservative? Thankfully Bob Marshall went to court and the law was ruled unconstitutional.

  39. Social said on 7 Jan 2011 at 8:54 am:
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    Where was Miller on the abortion clinic regulations? Illegal immigration? Will he introduce a bill on birthright citizenship? He needs to show up a bit more me thinks.

  40. Padre said on 7 Jan 2011 at 2:43 pm:
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    Patty, check your own links, in particular the second one. There is a list of patrons who wanted to prohibit discrimination. Jackson Miller’s name was not amongst those who wanted legislation to prohibit discrimination. The Miller listed was Paula Miller.

    Rest assured. Jackson Miller isn’t a patron. He is still a conservative. No moderate would ever vote against prohibiting discrimination. What do you have against Del. Miller? He said he would study up on 4-H.

  41. Patty said on 7 Jan 2011 at 8:12 pm:
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    Check the second link. Click on 02/04/09. It was a vote to table the legislation - to kill it in committee.

    This was Jackson’s vote:

    NAYS—Miller, J.H., Eisenberg–2

    J. H. Miller is Jackson Miller.

    He wanted this social liberal bill to go forward. Eisenberg was the only other person who wanted it to go forward. The rest of them killed it.

    You need to click on the PDF file and read the bill. This is the same crap that Montgomery County MD passed. They ran into trouble when they had to figure out how to accomodate men who believed they were really women (gender identity) who wanted to use the ladies room.

    This was a LIBERAL bill and Miller voted for it.

    Tell me Padre, can you tell if someone is homosexual by looking at them?

  42. Padre said on 7 Jan 2011 at 10:01 pm:
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    No, he did not vote FOR the bill. The bill is still in committee at this point. (in the link) Tell me Patty, are you FOR discrimination.

    The miller in the link you provided is Julia Miller. Again, what do you now have against Jackson Miller? As I recall, you used to sing his praises on high.

    It appears you have trouble admitting you are wrong. Jackson Miller is a conservative. Ask him yourself instead of bearing false witness.

  43. Patty said on 7 Jan 2011 at 10:25 pm:
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    You are not reading what I posted. I copied the vote directly from the GA website. If you ask Delegate Miller if he wanted and voted for that bill he will tell you he did. He told me directly.

    It is the same type of crap Montgomery County MD passed.

    Here is some information from Maryland Citizens for a Responsible Government:


    They (MCRG) were successful in getting a referendum on the ballot until the Maryland Court of Appeals took it off. I’m sure if it got on the ballot it would have been repealed but the liberal judges made sure it didn’t get on the ballot.

    This is the same liberal crap that Jackson Miller voted for. If J. H. Miller isn’t Jackson Miller then who do you think it is, his evil twin?

    Sorry to burst your bubble. I am telling the truth. If you don’t believe me ask Delegate Miller himself and he will tell you.

    You didn’t click on 02/04/09. I guess your afraid of the truth.

  44. Padre said on 7 Jan 2011 at 11:53 pm:
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    Oh Patty, stop arguing over something just absurd. Just because Jackson Miller doesn’t want to discriminate doesn’t make him not a conservative. What is it that you now have against Miller?

    You refuse to answer that. All sorts of perfectly good conservatives oppose discrimination. It generally goes hand in hand with their deep religious convictions. You know, the Golden Rule.

  45. Patty said on 8 Jan 2011 at 8:52 am:
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    It is pointless to continue this when you refuse to look at the facts. I’ve put links and information from MCRG about gender identity bills. I know those who are conservative especially in regards to social issues will research this.

    You, however, seem to be, in my opinion, a liberal who has come on here to troll.

    You did do a great service in that you gave me a springboard to list links and I thank you for that.

  46. Padre said on 8 Jan 2011 at 12:55 pm:
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    Patty, you really should have stuck to 4-H arguments rather than trying to denigrate Delegate Jackson. Your ridiculous attempts to paint someone with a solid conservative track record invalidate anything you have to say.

    Delegate Paula Miller from the 87th District is not the same person as Delegate Jackson Miller. Delegate Miller has served the 50th well, much in same way Harry Parrish served our area. He was a fine conservative also. However, both men attempted to do what is best for our area rather than cookie cutter voting.

    Patty, you refuse to state your grievance with Delegate Miller. What is it really? Why won’t you just spit it out?

  47. Wow how the subject changed said on 8 Jan 2011 at 4:48 pm:
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    I found this the shifts in this thread fascinating and took up Patty’s offer to call Jackson himself. Being a social conservative and a Jackson supporter I was deeply disturbed by this vote that Patty has pointed out.

    So, I just finished speaking with Jackson.

    Sorry to burst your bubble’s Patty and Padre. He voted ‘not to table the bill’, to be exact.

    Padre, he said that during the debate he did not see a problem with a law that would not allow the State or Localities to fire a person for being gay or lesbian. He did not support ‘transgendered’

    Patty, for someone who has talked directly to Jackson about this issue you should stop telling half truths. He told me, and I believe him, that he ammended the bill during the committee hearing to remove ‘transgendered’ from the bill. His ammendment passed. He told you this as well Patty, so for you to bring up the ‘confused man who wants to use the ladies room arguement’ is very disingenuos.

    He also told me, and again I believe him. That he does not and will not support gay marriage, does not and will not support open homosexuality in the armed forces, and that he does not and will not support forcing private employers to include homosexuality as a protected class.

    His answers to my questions very reasonable and well thought out. I will gladly continue to support him.

  48. Padre said on 8 Jan 2011 at 6:57 pm:
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    Wow, no bubble burst here. I still maintain he isn’t Paula Miller and I bet he would agree. I expect he also still considers himself a conservative. I do.

    I am still waiting for Patty to explain why she is storying about Del. Miller. He has served the area well and I am glad to hear he doesn’t believe in discrimination.

  49. Patty said on 9 Jan 2011 at 10:49 pm:
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    I fail to see where Miller amended the bill. It still had gender Identity and expression:

    “For the purposes of this section, “sexual orientation” means a person’s actual or perceived heterosexuality, bisexuality, homosexuality, or gender identity or expression. Sexual orientation shall not include any person’s attraction towards persons with whom sexual conduct would be illegal due to the age of the parties.”

    Maybe you can enlighten us.

    Also, he never said to me he amended it. The only words I saw lined out were handicap and creed.

    Also the vote was to table the bill:

    HB 2385 Discrimination; prohibited in public employment based on race, color, religion, etc.
    01/23/09 House: Assigned GL sub: Professional/Occupational/Adminstrative Process
    02/04/09 House: Subcommittee recommends laying on the table
    YEAS–Cosgrove, Carrico, Scott, E.T., Gilbert–4.
    NAYS—Miller, J.H., Eisenberg–2.
    NOT VOTING–Barlow, Ward–2

    It says “Subcommittee recommends laying on the table” and then lists a vote (see above). Four voted Yea, two voted Nay (J.H. Miller), two not voting.

    It never went forward.

    According to Robert’s Rules “laying on the table” essentially means to put it aside.

    Delegate Miller admitted to me that social conservatives (conservative Christians) were upset over his vote on this. Why would do you think they were upset?

    I truly believe the link from MCRG is very relevant.

    Let me ask you this since you brought it up, why does he ask about repealing the marriage amendment on his legislative survey? I don’t think Bob Marshall would even think about putting a question like that on his legislative survey. Bob Fitzsimmonds wouldn’t do it either.

    Please, tell me how you can tell if someone is homosexual by looking at them.

  50. Padre said on 10 Jan 2011 at 10:57 am:
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    Surveys usually seek information. Miller doesn’t just represent social conservatives. If he only voted as they wanted, he could never get elected or stay elected.

  51. Buttterfly said on 11 Jan 2011 at 8:54 am:
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    @ Padre,

    Delegate Miller - and you - seem to forget it was the social conservtives who got him elected in the convention with Mr. Wimer, it was the social conservatives who show up at his events, it was the social conservatives who have supported him with signs and stickers and help save manassas and the pro-lifers and now it seems he is going the way of our last delegate - moderate and middle of the road and always having to explain his votes to us - sorry I am not liking this trend.

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